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Post by Tony on Dec 29, 2013 21:25:31 GMT -5
Heck I got one frontrunner in my own house as my wife cancelled her season ticket as soon as she found out that Mitch was hired. She'll be back next year if all goes well..... Damn she is one smart lady..LOL She was ahead of the curve
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Dec 29, 2013 22:00:35 GMT -5
If we still played in the ARC like we did in the ch 38 days, I would never complain about TV. Those Siena Indian games were almost always sold out regardless of the record. Now we have at least 10K seats. No excuse for not going for 95% of the "fans."[/quote] While I embrace live TV, I also agree that everything else possible should be done to bring in more fans to actually attend. Perhaps Siena fans with establishments could cross promote by offering discounts if they show their "selfie" taken at the game. Get rid of the tarps and designate high schools around the area one game a year for free tickets (one game shen, one game Albany etc) ---- "hire" a high school band, cheerleaders and dance teams to perform when the college students are away... lots more could be done besides shooting t shirts into the crowd and dressing like coffee and donuts. None will be effective as simply winning, though.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 30, 2013 4:31:55 GMT -5
Well this year, as I pointed out, ONE MAAC home game isn't being televised. Your study continually loses steam with nearly every game being televised now. And variables like competition (SUNY game, Big HS game, etc...) at the same time always hurt the numbers. Weather is never in the calculations. ps--I was being faceitious about the "brand." We don't have a brand. We're a mid-njor in a non-professional market. No one in Western NY cares abut Siena basketball, and no one here cares about Canisius basketball. So which is it--- are the numbers lower because of the weather, because of the competition, or because it is on TV? Those variables you are talking about hurt the numbers whether the game is on tv or not so it is not a factor. Remember, in 100 games, with 40% of them being on TV, the paid attendance was the same whether it was on TV or not. This includes games in good weather, games in bad weather, games on the beloved high school Friday night (which draw the same as Saturday nights regardless... etc). PS, The brand I'm talking about building is the brand in the capital region. Siena is lucky they have the opportunity to put these games live on tv-- it's either us or UAlbany. The analysis doesn't lose steam--- it is already complete and it has been decided that live tv is the way to go. Ironicaly for your argument, I became a college basketball fan by watching Marist play on channel 62 in the early 80s. Siena was also on channel 38 or 45 sometimes. Through the snow you could barely see it, but it was there. How many new fans are born each year because of these live tv games.... the upside of brand recognition in the capital region far outweighs the lower amounts of actual attendance. I do wish that more people would attend the games--- the best way to bring out the fans is to win games, especially at home ---- 2,000 more fans on average .... you are right as with all sports teams Albany loves a winner. Heck I got one frontrunner in my own house as my wife cancelled her season ticket as soon as she found out that Mitch was hired. She'll be back next year if all goes well..... Exactly! Seems pretty simple and logical.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 30, 2013 4:41:35 GMT -5
So which is it--- are the numbers lower because of the weather, because of the competition, or because it is on TV? Those variables you are talking about hurt the numbers whether the game is on tv or not so it is not a factor. Remember, in 100 games, with 40% of them being on TV, the paid attendance was the same whether it was on TV or not. This includes games in good weather, games in bad weather, games on the beloved high school Friday night (which draw the same as Saturday nights regardless... etc). PS, The brand I'm talking about building is the brand in the capital region. Siena is lucky they have the opportunity to put these games live on tv-- it's either us or UAlbany. The analysis doesn't lose steam--- it is already complete and it has been decided that live tv is the way to go. Ironicaly for your argument, I became a college basketball fan by watching Marist play on channel 62 in the early 80s. Siena was also on channel 38 or 45 sometimes. Through the snow you could barely see it, but it was there. How many new fans are born each year because of these live tv games.... the upside of brand recognition in the capital region far outweighs the lower amounts of actual attendance. I do wish that more people would attend the games--- the best way to bring out the fans is to win games, especially at home ---- 2,000 more fans on average .... you are right as with all sports teams Albany loves a winner. Heck I got one frontrunner in my own house as my wife cancelled her season ticket as soon as she found out that Mitch was hired. She'll be back next year if all goes well..... If we still played in the ARC like we did in the ch 38 days, I would never complain about TV. Those Siena Indian games were almost always sold out regardless of the record. Now we have at least 10K seats. No excuse for not going for 95% of the "fans." The "fan" is not the problem. You realize this is entertainment, you make it seem like an obligation to go to games. I'm sure to some it is. Not to me. But that aside, if you want to build the fan base you don't get rid of the Siena bb enthusiasts (fans that's don't go to the tuc) by eliminating or diluting the tv product, you use that opportunity to build your base.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Dec 30, 2013 4:56:55 GMT -5
If we still played in the ARC like we did in the ch 38 days, I would never complain about TV. Those Siena Indian games were almost always sold out regardless of the record. Now we have at least 10K seats. No excuse for not going for 95% of the "fans." The "fan" is not the problem. You realize this is entertainment, you make it seem like an obligation to go to games. I'm sure to some it is. Not to me. But that aside, if you want to build the fan base you don't get rid of the Siena bb enthusiasts (fans that's don't go to the tuc) by eliminating or diluting the tv product, you use that opportunity to build your base. Nope, definitely not an obligation, but if that's the attitude towards the program, can we please stop talking about going "bigtime" then!? The staying home thing doesn't really occur at the truly successful programs. You guys can't have it both ways. (not talking about you specifically CR). The best way to get to the A-10, which most of you seem hellbent on doing, would be to prove that we can draw as well as almost anyone in the league. This 6K/game thing isn't cutting it. When the winning starts consistently, hopefully we should be back to 8K a game next year.
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Post by Tony on Dec 30, 2013 5:28:16 GMT -5
I think that is the single biggest factor in attendance- playing winning exciting ball -- not much different than any place in country really
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Post by MTS on Dec 30, 2013 6:18:18 GMT -5
The "fan" is not the problem. You realize this is entertainment, you make it seem like an obligation to go to games. I'm sure to some it is. Not to me. But that aside, if you want to build the fan base you don't get rid of the Siena bb enthusiasts (fans that's don't go to the tuc) by eliminating or diluting the tv product, you use that opportunity to build your base. Nope, definitely not an obligation, but if that's the attitude towards the program, can we please stop talking about going "bigtime" then!? The staying home thing doesn't really occur at the truly successful programs. You guys can't have it both ways. (not talking about you specifically CR). The best way to get to the A-10, which most of you seem hellbent on doing, would be to prove that we can draw as well as almost anyone in the league. This 6K/game thing isn't cutting it. When the winning starts consistently, hopefully we should be back to 8K a game next year. 6000 a game still would put Siena in the top 2-3 programs in the A10 in attendance. And the only one close to it would be Richmond/VCU once Dayton/St. Louis leave the league. If we win and go to the A10 I think you'll see the attendance back to 8000 a game where it was a few years ago.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 30, 2013 8:15:21 GMT -5
I agree mts.
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Post by hockeyguy on Jan 1, 2014 21:54:57 GMT -5
MTS, you sure it was ever at 8,000? I remember 7,000 plus but never 8,000 (maybe in MAAC Tournament years). Here are some other things to consider. Siena has about 3,000 students, over 60% women (I know SOME women go to sporting events). If they are really successful getting kids downtown, you might get a third of them. That leaves 7,000 non-students to get to 8,000. The realistic "live market" for the Albany area is something less than 500,000. The market has 4 D1 teams. RPI used to draw 5,000, they are down to high 3's low 4's. Union packs Achilles every game. UA draws 2 - 3K. If you add them up, that comes out to something around 15K out of 500K going to live college sporting events (along with all the D2 and D3 events going on, plus HS). That folks is 3% of the market going to live college events. What the heck do you expect? In the best years Siena draws 7,000 (sorry but that is near the top) worst years, 5,000. Not much difference in my book, TV or no TV. You can argue over 50 fans with or without TV if you want, but there are a finite nimber of fans available.
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Post by MTS on Jan 1, 2014 22:11:51 GMT -5
Here are recent high attendance regular season games outside of UAlbany. 8065 was considered a sellout in 2008-2009 and 2009-2010.
1/24/09 vs Niagara 7980 2/12/09 vs Manhattan 8065 2/21/09 vs Northern Iowa 8065 12/29/09 vs St. Joe's 7998 1/9/10 vs Niagara 8065 2/5/10 vs Iona 8065 2/28/10 vs Marist 8065 11/13/10 vs Vermont 8047 11/23/10 vs Butler 8444 1/30/11 vs Niagara 8275 2/4/11 vs Manhattan 8064 2/19/11 vs Maine 8311 1/27/12 vs Marist 7906 2/26/12 vs Canisius 7939
With Jimmy getting us back on track and potentially the A10 in the mix we'll be back to averaging 7300-7400 a game with a bunch of 8000 games. No question though you have to win big.
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Post by hockeyguy on Jan 1, 2014 22:17:12 GMT -5
Sorry, I thought we were talking season average, not individual games, my bad.
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Post by Tony on Jan 2, 2014 5:14:46 GMT -5
The realistic "live market" for the Albany area is something less than 500,000. The market has 4 D1 teams. RPI used to draw 5,000, they are down to high 3's low 4's. Union packs Achilles every game. UA draws 2 - 3K. Actually Albany area MSA is 870K the 58th largest population MSA in country – and that does not include Glens falls MSA and Pittsfield MSA- area's Siena draws fans from for every home game – which gives Siena access to well over a 1 million people – in fact the capital district is a larger metro area than Dayton Ohio, Lexington Kentucky . Omaha Nebraska , Syracuse NY , Tallahassee FL, Madison Wis about the same as Richmond Va, Providence RI, Knoxville – in short the capital district and surrounding area has more than enough population to support 10K plus at TUC every game. The single biggest reason why Siena still has the tarps is poor head coach selection- something Gonzaga- Creighton- Butler-Xavier VCU etc has been able to do. Now part of that is those schools play in revenue sharing conferences which allowed them to pay their coach in excess of a million a year – charter to away games etc- in short NCAA revenue has allowed those programs to break the bonds of mid majors – but they still made good choices when replacing head coaches. Every time Siena got it “going” we lost our head coach and hired a poor choice. Programs like Xavier- VCU made good choices and kept things rolling- something Siena has never been able to do.. and up to this point has been by far the biggest limiting factor for Siena
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Post by hockeyguy on Jan 2, 2014 7:07:23 GMT -5
Tony, I appreciate that the Albany SMSA is 870K, but it also covers 6 counties. Even with an "early bird special" you are not going to get many of the seniors (a big component of the population in the SMSA) or get the kids under 12 on a school night. And then there are the people who do not and never will care about college basketball (or sports) even occasionally. Many of the "comparable areas" you cite have schools with much larger enrollments that produce 5 - 10,000 alumni (a very key compnent) every year (compared to 800 for Siena) in addition to kids still in school. Further, most do not have multiple schools competing for the same (college sports) fans. I am not saying they all go to a game the same night but if you are going to 12 -16 RPI games a year, you are not going to go to too many Siena games (ditto the others). I am not sure what Siena's ceiling is but I doubt it is much over 8,500 to maybe 9,000 per game. Even Paul Hewitt couldn't draw 7,000 with GA Tech. We all have our opinions.
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Post by DelmartianEd on Jan 2, 2014 8:02:41 GMT -5
Xavier and Creighton aren't huge, both play in downtown arenas, both have much larger public schools in their vicinity, and both outdraw us. They've been in higher conferences (A-10 and MVC, respectively, and now the Big East), so it's not the same situation Siena is in, but that's the model. Cincinnati is a bigger metro area, but Omaha isn't.
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