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Post by DelmartianEd on Dec 24, 2013 9:15:36 GMT -5
The pecking order is intact. Because the A-10 is able to raid the other East Coast leagues of their best teams, the A-10 will continue to be a strong league. Its reloading also diminishes its competition. The A-10's position is secure.
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glen
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Post by glen on Dec 24, 2013 14:09:05 GMT -5
I believe VCU, LaSalle, GW, URI, GM, SJU, URI and St. Bona have all made the sweet-16. The number of MAAC schools in the sweet-16 is...zero!
On any given year are any of those guys light years ahead of the best MAAC team(s) - maybe not but the A10 has always outperformed the MAAC. I'm not sure about TV contracts but the A10 will always have good hoops programs because the league emphasizes it. If some leave, fine there will be others to backfill. Hey - you want some decent home games - moving to the A10 will aide in getting some schools in that would never play at a MAAC school.
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Post by glensfalls on Dec 24, 2013 14:31:43 GMT -5
I appear to have touched a nerve. You asked "In your opinion which team has been more successful during the past decade: Siena College or St.Bonaventure?" I provided an answer, in my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Cheers, my friend. Hey Grovy..... I knew that if you posted enough you would manufacture facts to mislead readers on this site. You manufactured in the first post in page 2 of this thread when you stated that St.Bonaventure receives "estimated annual media revenue of $750,000" from the A10. The below linked article quotes information from the Providence Journal which indicates that before headliners Xavier and Butler bolted the A10 each team in the league received only $357,143, if split evenly, before deduction of league expenses. Thus, the correct number is approximately one third (1/3d) of the fictitious number you stated. I would be surprised if the $357K sum was not recused after Xavier and Butler left. [Note: my quick search has been unable to even confirm whether the A10 even still has a national media contract after the departures of Xavier and Butler... Can anyone confirm?] Facts are a stubborn thing, and your exaggeration of facts diminishes your credibility. Capisce? Link www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv________________ ps. Tony.... Don't get me wrong; no where did I ever post that Siena should not move to the A10. What I have repeatedly posted is that the costs, travel and advantages to Siena moving to the neutered A10 is not the "no brainer" which most posters claim it is. Hopefully if an invite comes its way that Siena will study the costs and benefits and act accordingly. Grovy and most on this site had no concept what TV revenue may yield but the reality is financial costs of travel and competition will likely greatly exceed TV revenue particularly since the TV revenue was likely was reduced after billboard programs Xavier and Butler bolted and will likely be further be reduced and the national exposure possibly terminated when 2 other attractive programs exit the league. A move to the A10, if an invite comes is not as simple as many believe. Regards.
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Post by Tony on Dec 24, 2013 15:49:08 GMT -5
Glens falls—let me clearly state I have no problem with your “reservations” and wanting to look at all the facts—in fact I applaud you for that
Any move to a higher ranked conference is not without a “downside” the biggest I see is if Siena makes the move half assed and doesn’t provide the resources needed to compete at the level needed in A10. If that happens the move would be a dismal failure. You are talking a men’s hoop budget in excess of 3 mill- improvements across board. We see Siena sinking money in for practice facility, something needed to compete against better programs in A10( most of whom either have one or are building one)
A potential move to A10 would enhance Siena’s stated goal to have athletic programs that are popular, critical to student growth and help Siena broadcast its message on a national stage.
As long as program is funded properly not much downside in possible move up to A10 level- it’s a level should be able to compete against fairly easily – our facilities, fan base and media coverage would be amongst the top in A10 foot print.
Money and commitment is biggest potential downside- ( I'm told Siena would fund accordingly ) but until you see that you dont know. Attendance would almost certainly increase- Corporate donors would almost certainly increase with increased viability of program on a local and national stage. Schedule would be enhanced . And travel time could actually be decreased for student athletes.. Tell me the down side again? You feel A10 won’t be good enough? ( we can agree to disagree there)
Let me ask you this Glens falls do you have a problem with Siena upping it level of commitment ( IE money) for any potential move to a higher ranked conference and do you agree with Siena's initiative to Expand and leverage investment in Division I athletics to promote the reputation of the College and enhance student engagement- if so dont you think a move to the A10 would be in line with that goal
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Post by MTS on Dec 24, 2013 16:04:40 GMT -5
Totally agree with Tony's post... and I'll add Siena doesn't go to the A10 without a lot of planning and without the resources we will need to compete (practice facility, upgrade in budget etc). The new Big East was a pipe dream...you could make the case had Siena not skipped a beat after Fran if that league made sense simply from a competing standpoint over the long hall. I would not want to be a Seton Hall or DePaul. But in the A10 Siena would do just fine as long as we have the right coach in charge. Jimmy would "kill it" in recruiting with the A10 card in his pocket. Here's the A10 spending from last year: wewearthering.com/2013/12/23/2012-13-atlantic-10-spending/Siena will probably need to get to about $3.0-$3.2 million at first and then increase accordingly. The more you win and hopefully make a deep NCAA run you can keep most of it (unlike the MAAC) and pay your coach $1 million dollars a year and spend more on the basketball budget.
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thefan
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Post by thefan on Dec 24, 2013 19:56:44 GMT -5
That $357,000 might be $350,000 more than Siena gets now from the MAAC's tv contract.
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Post by hockeyguy on Dec 24, 2013 20:03:22 GMT -5
I'd like to ask how has this A-10 thing worked out for enhancing reputation and student growth (we can talk about over-booked dorms and insufficient classroom space later if it works out) for schools like SBU, LaSalle (a former MAAC darling), URI? I don't believe any of them are "destination schools", more like still, "local options" for the most part. Siena, like Davidson, Butler, Gonzaga, Mason, all got plenty of national buzz when they were good and still playing in small conferences. I don't think the "national profile because of he A-10" dog hunts in the overall scheme of things, just my opinion.
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Post by Tony on Dec 25, 2013 5:40:35 GMT -5
I'd like to ask how has this A-10 thing worked out for enhancing reputation and student growth (we can talk about over-booked dorms and insufficient classroom space later if it works out) for schools like SBU, LaSalle (a former MAAC darling), URI? I don't believe any of them are "destination schools", more like still, "local options" for the most part. Siena, like Davidson, Butler, Gonzaga, Mason, all got plenty of national buzz when they were good and still playing in small conferences. I don't think the "national profile because of he A-10" dog hunts in the overall scheme of things, just my opinion. Interesting take..Butler rode their reputation all the way to big East- athletic revenue , TV money and national reputation thru the roof for a small school from Midwest- George Mason in the A10—as will Davidson be next year. Gonzaga is in a conference with revenue sharing as for SBU-- although not doing bad—I said the danger of going to A10 is not funding your program properly. In the long haul money talks and $hit walks in NCAA hoops- if you don’t fund your program in the A10 it can be disastrous I get ( don’t agree) you don’t think the A-10" dog hunts in the overall scheme of things, obviously George Mason , Davidson and I’m pretty sure Siena disagrees with you
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Dec 25, 2013 13:19:00 GMT -5
The tv money will be gone. The league is a step up from the MAAC, but not nearly what some claim. I've never said don't go, I've said think about other possibilities. as for your proposed A10-- here is my much more likely A10..smaller footprint and good basketball school and would be multiple bid conference most years VCU Richmond Umass LaSalle URI Geo Washington Geo Mason St Joe's St Bonnie Fordham Duquesne Davidson Siena Upstate - not sure I follow your repeated assertions that Siena fans are making exceedingly unrealistic claims about the 'new' the A-10. Please elaborate. Tony - IMO you are spot on with the 'new' A-10 looking really good if made up of the members you listed and that most years it would be a multi bid league. Can't wait for everyone to see the realized potential that Siena's advantages will translate into when they are on the A-10 stage!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2013 13:49:55 GMT -5
as for your proposed A10-- here is my much more likely A10..smaller footprint and good basketball school and would be multiple bid conference most years VCU Richmond Umass LaSalle URI Geo Washington Geo Mason St Joe's St Bonnie Fordham Duquesne Davidson Siena Upstate - not sure I follow your repeated assertions that Siena fans are making exceedingly unrealistic claims about the 'new' the A-10. Please elaborate. Tony - IMO you are spot on with the 'new' A-10 looking really good if made up of the members you listed and that most years it would be a multi bid league. Can't wait for everyone to see the realized potential that Siena's advantages will translate into when they are on the A-10 stage! I'm not going to go back and highlight every comment from them for you. If you read the numerous threads, you will see the claims. As for your "most years it would be a multi bid league", look at the projected teams and tell me how many have ever been an at-large NCAA team, and then tell me who of them you think can get an at-large bid playing in that league. The league will probably get 3 to 4 bids this year, I agree with Tony on that. Remove Dayton, St Louis, UMass(They want out bad, whether Tony will admit or not), add Davidson. Tell me where the conference RPI and SOS are and who is getting at-large bids??? Do they have a better shot at an at-large than the MAAC? Sure. By much? Not really.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Dec 25, 2013 15:38:18 GMT -5
Upstate - not sure I follow your repeated assertions that Siena fans are making exceedingly unrealistic claims about the 'new' the A-10. Please elaborate. Tony - IMO you are spot on with the 'new' A-10 looking really good if made up of the members you listed and that most years it would be a multi bid league. Can't wait for everyone to see the realized potential that Siena's advantages will translate into when they are on the A-10 stage! I'm not going to go back and highlight every comment from them for you. If you read the numerous threads, you will see the claims. As for your "most years it would be a multi bid league", look at the projected teams and tell me how many have ever been an at-large NCAA team, and then tell me who of them you think can get an at-large bid playing in that league. The league will probably get 3 to 4 bids this year, I agree with Tony on that. Remove Dayton, St Louis, UMass(They want out bad, whether Tony will admit or not), add Davidson. Tell me where the conference RPI and SOS are and who is getting at-large bids??? Do they have a better shot at an at-large than the MAAC? Sure. By much? Not really. Hmm - nobody asked you to go back and highlight every comment. Personally, I asked you to elaborate but all you did was recycle your talking points and ask me to do what you just stated you are unwilling to do. hoohum..... The bottom of the A10 is almost always as strong or stronger than the top of the MAACs 2-10 teams. Would you really rather see Siena play Rider, SPC, Monmouth, CC, Marist, etc or SBU, SJU, URI, etc.? For most it is rhetorical but for you and Glenfalls it seems to be a legitimate question. If you think the projected A10 isn't be the best fit for Siena what is? Happy Holidays!
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 25, 2013 19:53:32 GMT -5
I'm not going to go back and highlight every comment from them for you. If you read the numerous threads, you will see the claims. As for your "most years it would be a multi bid league", look at the projected teams and tell me how many have ever been an at-large NCAA team, and then tell me who of them you think can get an at-large bid playing in that league. The league will probably get 3 to 4 bids this year, I agree with Tony on that. Remove Dayton, St Louis, UMass(They want out bad, whether Tony will admit or not), add Davidson. Tell me where the conference RPI and SOS are and who is getting at-large bids??? Do they have a better shot at an at-large than the MAAC? Sure. By much? Not really. Hmm - nobody asked you to go back and highlight every comment. Personally, I asked you to elaborate but all you did was recycle your talking points and ask me to do what you just stated you are unwilling to do. hoohum..... The bottom of the A10 is almost always as strong or stronger than the top of the MAACs 2-10 teams. Would you really rather see Siena play Rider, SPC, Monmouth, CC, Marist, etc or SBU, SJU, URI, etc.? For most it is rhetorical but for you and Glenfalls it seems to be a legitimate question. If you think the projected A10 isn't be the best fit for Siena what is? Happy Holidays! Exactly. The comments and concerns made by glensfalls and upstate don't appear to be genuine. Assuming Siena has done its due diligence and the numbers work would glensfalls think it was a good move? Does glensfalls think Siena belongs in the A10, does the school lack the necessary cache? I have read his posts, most of them at least, and their is a demeaning tone in many of them for sure. He doesnt think the school is good enough. There is a palpable elitist attitude. He is wrong of course. Most of us that have been following Siena know we have the potential to be something special and it's been a long time coming. Go Saints!!
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Post by Tony on Dec 26, 2013 5:26:15 GMT -5
Keep in mind we can differing opinions on this board. Glens falls thinks the move would be bad for several reasons – he obviously has an issue with Siena upping its level of commitment to D1 ball . Upstate seems to have similar “issue” but masks that issue with questions about attendance or saying level of competition wouldn’t be any different than MAAC- although both positions have been thoroughly debunked- both of them have transparent reasons for being against such a jump. I wish they would just come out and say they are against it for ..Whatever their reasons are—but make no mistake about it- both have heavy agenda’s against any possible move. And hey that’s fine just consider the source
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Post by Tony on Dec 26, 2013 5:38:00 GMT -5
And I will say this—only possible potential “downside “ anyone has come up with that I have seen is if Siena’s doesn’t properly “fund” any potential move. If the move to A10 is made ( which is in line with Siena’s stated goals ) and funded properly – I would guess it would be a tremendous success . If they don’t fund it—can you say Fordham? We know the practice facility is coming next year- that will allow us to compete against A10 and higher level for recruits. ( clearly separates us from any mid to low level D1 programs) Not sure any other program in MAAC- AE- NEC- IVY- PL etc has a dedicated practice facility on campus or planned- several in A10 or higher have it—again another example of gap growing between have and have nots
So let’s see Siena has facilities as good or better than any other mid to low major on east coast- has attendance better than what help me out here.. any mid to low major on east have better attendance than Siena? How about media coverage? Siena is better positioned than most programs to make the jump. Despite all the bluster from Glens falls and Upstate neither has come up with a single legitimate reason why Siena shouldn't make a move should a spot "open" up
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 7:00:53 GMT -5
Keep in mind we can differing opinions on this board. Glens falls thinks the move would be bad for several reasons – he obviously has an issue with Siena upping its level of commitment to D1 ball . Upstate seems to have similar “issue” but masks that issue with questions about attendance or saying level of competition wouldn’t be any different than MAAC- although both positions have been thoroughly debunked- both of them have transparent reasons for being against such a jump. I wish they would just come out and say they are against it for ..Whatever their reasons are—but make no mistake about it- both have heavy agenda’s against any possible move. And hey that’s fine just consider the source Speaking of agenda's. Maybe I should post our PM conversation. You are supposed to be a moderator but come on here and blatantly lie to advance your agenda. Maybe that's why Siena fans are seen as cry babies and bitches. They are all scum bags like you. I hope a few people see this before you delete it and lie some more. Your "forum" is a effing joke.
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