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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 7:01:45 GMT -5
Keep in mind we can differing opinions on this board. Glens falls thinks the move would be bad for several reasons – he obviously has an issue with Siena upping its level of commitment to D1 ball . Upstate seems to have similar “issue” but masks that issue with questions about attendance or saying level of competition wouldn’t be any different than MAAC- although both positions have been thoroughly debunked- both of them have transparent reasons for being against such a jump. I wish they would just come out and say they are against it for ..Whatever their reasons are—but make no mistake about it- both have heavy agenda’s against any possible move. And hey that’s fine just consider the source Glens Falls is upstate Tony, at least from the viewpoint of those of us living south of Saratoga, LOL! The two posters you reference not only "share" similar views but also similar language expressing them and reacting to those of us with questions for them. Odd! Aside from that, I am struggling with those that are concerned about a move being made without proper funding. Siena would not make a move without adequate funding budgeted to support the additional travel that will be necessary for all of the sports. The budget process at Siena would address where the additional funding would come from, i.e., ticket price increases, student fee increases, tuition increases (?), and/or budget cuts in other sports - areas we have no feeling for. I doubt they would make cuts to other sports but that is just my take. Not sure what other "funding" issues are out there. I would strongly doubt that Jimmy's salary or that of his staff would be increased solely based on a move up. A down the road coaching change would likely need additional salary provisions at the time of the change to atract a new HC, but that is not quantifiable now, IMO anyway. Future increases are probably already anticipated if Jimmy restores us to the top of the MAAC with a trip or two to the NCAA's. I wouldn't think the recruiting budget would require significant funding increases as we would likely continue recruiting in the same geographical area that we cover now. What am I missing (on this topic only, please ). Any exit fee from the MAAC and any entrance fees would have to be considered - no way to address them improperly - they are what they are. The argument that the potential departure of many of the remaining "Cream of the Crop" teams in the A10 will somehow reduce the overall strength of the conference and, in a worst case scenario, turn it into a one bid conference like the MAAC. I think that view is shortsided - it completely discounts the "quality" of the incoming teams, which, like Siena would be moving up to improve their programs and their average RPI, heightening their chances for the NCAA's. That's why Siena would move and I would think any other schools would be making similar upgrading commitments.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 7:10:03 GMT -5
Keep in mind we can differing opinions on this board. Glens falls thinks the move would be bad for several reasons – he obviously has an issue with Siena upping its level of commitment to D1 ball . Upstate seems to have similar “issue” but masks that issue with questions about attendance or saying level of competition wouldn’t be any different than MAAC- although both positions have been thoroughly debunked- both of them have transparent reasons for being against such a jump. I wish they would just come out and say they are against it for ..Whatever their reasons are—but make no mistake about it- both have heavy agenda’s against any possible move. And hey that’s fine just consider the source Speaking of agenda's. Maybe I should post our PM conversation. You are supposed to be a moderator but come on here and blatantly lie to advance your agenda. Maybe that's why Siena fans are seen as cry babies and bitches. They are all scum bags like you. I hope a few people see this before you delete it and lie some more. Your "forum" is a effing joke. WOW! Upstate - the moderator funds this board on his own - he is not an employee and can post his views without any constraints. His generosity is aimed at supporting a Siena forum that can entertain all views in a respectful manner. Your style consistently shows immature and crude reactions when people disagree with you or ask reasonable questions about your statements. That's how it's supposed to work. By starting a thread, you don't own its contents. Tony may not agree with you (many don't) but he is NOT A LIAR and I won't even address your in the gutter crap! OBTW - See ya!!!!! Have a nice vacation or retirement.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Dec 26, 2013 7:25:24 GMT -5
I appear to have touched a nerve. You asked "In your opinion which team has been more successful during the past decade: Siena College or St.Bonaventure?" I provided an answer, in my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Cheers, my friend. Hey Grovy..... I knew that if you posted enough you would manufacture facts to mislead readers on this site. You manufactured in the first post in page 2 of this thread when you stated that St.Bonaventure receives "estimated annual media revenue of $750,000" from the A10. The below linked article quotes information from the Providence Journal which indicates that before headliners Xavier and Butler bolted the A10 each team in the league received only $357,143, if split evenly, before deduction of league expenses. Thus, the correct number is approximately one third (1/3d) of the fictitious number you stated. I would be surprised if the $357K sum was not recused after Xavier and Butler left. [Note: my quick search has been unable to even confirm whether the A10 even still has a national media contract after the departures of Xavier and Butler... Can anyone confirm?] Facts are a stubborn thing, and your exaggeration of facts diminishes your credibility. Capisce? Link www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tvHere is the link that I used to support my opinion that St. Bonaventure has had a better last 10 years than Siena: www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-blog/dp-teel-time-newport-newsbased-atlantic-10-enhances-revenue-exposure-with-new-tv-deal-20121004,0,7824318.story "The A-10’s most recent federal tax return available, for fiscal 2010-11, reported revenue of $10.2 million. Unlike many conferences, the A-10 did not categorize that income, but a majority of any league’s money comes form media rights. That $10.2 million averaged to about $730,000 per each of the conference’s then 14 members." Perhaps the $10.2 million includes NCAA tournament revenue, of which the A10 earned three times as much as the MAAC in the 2009-2010 season: www.thefreelibrary.com/The+valley%3A+how+TV+rights+could+dry+up+budgets.-a0285088967According to the table the A10 earned $5.7 million on 24 units compared to $1.8 million and 8 units for the maac based on their performance in the 2005 through 2010 seasons. The two extra units for the MAAC were earned by Siena. Now, some of these units were earned by Temple and Xavier, so the gap is likely to be smaller going forward. How much smaller is a matter of opinion though, whereas history clearly favors the A10 over the MAAC. Also, you seem to be unable to even confirm whether the A10 even still has a national media contract after the departures of Xavier and Butler. Let me help you with this article from September 5, 2013 outlining the Atlantic 10's outstanding national tv package for the 2013-2014 post Xavier/Butler era: www.atlantic10.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31600&ATCLID=209251477You will have to use your scroll key as the list of 71 nationally televised games is quite lengthy. "The 2013-14 Atlantic 10 men’s basketball conference schedule features a record number of nationally televised games as well as significant conference matchups, including 85 games with at least one team that participated in the 2013 postseason. The schedule and the games that will air nationally on ESPN, CBS Sports Network and NBCSN were announced Thursday by the A-10. The first year of the conference’s eight-year media television partnership will feature a record 71 nationally televised games: 50 conference games, 14 premium non-conference contests and the quarterfinals, semifinals and final of the men’s basketball championship. The championship final will air on CBS Sports for the fifth straight year as part of the network’s Selection Sunday coverage." By the way, it's "gorvy". Don't worry, I understand how difficult it is to spell 5 letter words sometimes. Another 5 letter word that is tough to spell is "Siena". Oftentimes, it is misspelled "Sienna". I guess when you are in a conference like the MAAC, with limited media exposure, it is tough to get people to be able to spell your name right. In closing, joining the A10 (if ever offered) would be a risk. As Tony said, if Siena does not make an increased commitment, it would fail in the A10, just like Marist has failed in the MAAC. Sometimes taking a risk is the right thing to do. Like you, I think Siena will be weighing all of its options and making an informed decision, if an opportunity does arise.
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glen
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Post by glen on Dec 26, 2013 7:59:00 GMT -5
Upstate - you posted a question about how many of the remaining A10 schools would get an at-large bid. Fair enough, but you never responded to my list of those teams who've made the sweet-16. I'd argue that any of hte round of 16 capable schools could be at-large contenders. You keep saying you're not against the move just pointing out that it may not be all that great. OK. Still - how many MAAC teams have made the round of 16? NONE.
For the record - what lies was it that Tony posted? He's always seemed like a fair moderator to me...and I've been on these boards for as long as they've been around.
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Post by hockeyguy on Dec 26, 2013 8:13:04 GMT -5
I am not opposed to a move to the A-10 but I do wonder if it will be the grand and glorious thing for Siena College (overall) that some think. MP (above) triggered an interesting thought when he mentioned an increase for Jimmy if Siena moved to the A-10. What about all the rest of the coaches and staff in other sports? Wouldn't they need A-10 salaries to remain competetive? Wouldn't they have to increase their recruiting base to stay competetive? And not to put too fine a point on it, but the team picked last in the MAAC has beaten an A-10 team (expected to remain) as has the team picked "next to last" who hopes to make it 2 (could have been 3) wins against A-10 teams. Not sure the difference is all that great between the majority of the teams who will remain in the two leagues. Just my two cents.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Dec 26, 2013 8:49:01 GMT -5
Last year VCU was a 5 seed, St. Louis was a 4 seed, and LaSalle was a 13 seed that won 3 games in the NCAA tournament. This season, the A10 has 5 teams in the top 60 of the RPI, and 9 teams in the top 125 that should earn some sort of postseason bid. In contrast, the maac only has 1 team in the top 60 and 3 in the top 125. I guess it depends upon what is considered to be grand and glorious, but to me the move to the atlantic 10 would increase the quality of the games we get to watch on a nightly basis, with the chance to get a winnable game or two in the ncaa tournament.
I wonder if this sort of debate occurred when we moved up to the MAAC. That move was an upgrade too, although to the casual observer it might not have seemed like it at the time.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 26, 2013 8:55:20 GMT -5
I wonder if this sort of debate occurred when we moved up to the MAAC. That move was an upgrade too, although to the casual observer it might not have seemed like it at the time. Great point.
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Post by buffalo butt on Dec 26, 2013 9:42:20 GMT -5
Keep in mind we can differing opinions on this board. Glens falls thinks the move would be bad for several reasons – he obviously has an issue with Siena upping its level of commitment to D1 ball . Upstate seems to have similar “issue” but masks that issue with questions about attendance or saying level of competition wouldn’t be any different than MAAC- although both positions have been thoroughly debunked- both of them have transparent reasons for being against such a jump. I wish they would just come out and say they are against it for ..Whatever their reasons are—but make no mistake about it- both have heavy agenda’s against any possible move. And hey that’s fine just consider the source Speaking of agenda's. Maybe I should post our PM conversation. You are supposed to be a moderator but come on here and blatantly lie to advance your agenda. Maybe that's why Siena fans are seen as cry babies and bitches. They are all scum bags like you. I hope a few people see this before you delete it and lie some more. Your "forum" is a effing joke. I'm going to go ahead and pat myself on the back for pointing out how big of a piece of trash upstate was a couple weeks ago. It's a festivus miracle that dirt bag is gone.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Dec 26, 2013 9:52:34 GMT -5
Sienahoops DictionaryPhrase: Self Destruction Definition: Speaking of agenda's. Maybe I should post our PM conversation. You are supposed to be a moderator but come on here and blatantly lie to advance your agenda. Maybe that's why Siena fans are seen as cry babies and bitches. They are all scum bags like you. I hope a few people see this before you delete it and lie some more. Your "forum" is a effing joke.[/quote]
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Post by hockeyguy on Dec 26, 2013 10:55:25 GMT -5
Last year VCU was a 5 seed, St. Louis was a 4 seed, and LaSalle was a 13 seed that won 3 games in the NCAA tournament. This season, the A10 has 5 teams in the top 60 of the RPI, and 9 teams in the top 125 that should earn some sort of postseason bid. In contrast, the maac only has 1 team in the top 60 and 3 in the top 125. I guess it depends upon what is considered to be grand and glorious, but to me the move to the atlantic 10 would increase the quality of the games we get to watch on a nightly basis, with the chance to get a winnable game or two in the ncaa tournament. I wonder if this sort of debate occurred when we moved up to the MAAC. That move was an upgrade too, although to the casual observer it might not have seemed like it at the time. I agree overall quality would increase, I just wonder by how much? How many of those "top 60" and "top 125" would still be in the league if/when Siena gets invited? Would you guess it would be the top teams or the bottom teams who would be leaving? I haven't looked, but how has LaSalle fared in the A-10 since leaving the MAAC (my perception is, not very well). Just questions that temper my enthusiasm for the move. Sort of like changing employers for a 10% increase, generally, you just don't do it.
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Post by SaintsFan on Dec 26, 2013 11:15:17 GMT -5
Last year VCU was a 5 seed, St. Louis was a 4 seed, and LaSalle was a 13 seed that won 3 games in the NCAA tournament. This season, the A10 has 5 teams in the top 60 of the RPI, and 9 teams in the top 125 that should earn some sort of postseason bid. In contrast, the maac only has 1 team in the top 60 and 3 in the top 125. I guess it depends upon what is considered to be grand and glorious, but to me the move to the atlantic 10 would increase the quality of the games we get to watch on a nightly basis, with the chance to get a winnable game or two in the ncaa tournament. I wonder if this sort of debate occurred when we moved up to the MAAC. That move was an upgrade too, although to the casual observer it might not have seemed like it at the time. I agree overall quality would increase, I just wonder by how much? How many of those "top 60" and "top 125" would still be in the league if/when Siena gets invited? Would you guess it would be the top teams or the bottom teams who would be leaving? I haven't looked, but how has LaSalle fared in the A-10 since leaving the MAAC (my perception is, not very well). Just questions that temper my enthusiasm for the move. Sort of like changing employers for a 10% increase, generally, you just don't do it. It doesn't matter. Siena may need to make the move to sustain. If the Maac continues to get watered down it could come down to which is worse. .. a watered down a10 or a watered down maac. I'll take the a10 with a better chance at multiple bids and the ability to keep more ncaa revenue. Along with better competition
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Dec 26, 2013 12:01:02 GMT -5
I agree overall quality would increase, I just wonder by how much? How many of those "top 60" and "top 125" would still be in the league if/when Siena gets invited? Would you guess it would be the top teams or the bottom teams who would be leaving? I haven't looked, but how has LaSalle fared in the A-10 since leaving the MAAC (my perception is, not very well). Just questions that temper my enthusiasm for the move. Sort of like changing employers for a 10% increase, generally, you just don't do it. It doesn't matter. Siena may need to make the move to sustain. If the Maac continues to get watered down it could come down to which is worse. .. a watered down a10 or a watered down maac. I'll take the a10 with a better chance at multiple bids and the ability to keep more ncaa revenue. Along with better competition Tony laid it out pretty well the other day. To paraphrase: everyone thought the A10 would fall each time key teams left. Yet each time those teams have been replaced and for the most part the A10 has sustained their level of success. Saintsfan - is trying to find the middle ground with folks like hockeyguy. A watered down A10 is, or at least seems to me to be, undeniably better than a watered down communist MAAC. Hockeyguy et al. - Siena should succeed where others have failed for a few simple reasons: Facilities, support and Market. I think our facilities are probably are already on par with SBU, SJU, Fordham, LaSalle and maybe a few others. They will be better than most once the upgrades are completed. We all know about the fan support and this is against schools like SPC, CC, Rider, etc. Can any of you envision a scenario where attendance does not improve when Siena is in the A10? In the Albany market Siena rules. That will never be the case for the lower performing schools and most of the top performers that are in larger markets. So in my opinion Siena IS uniquely positioned to compete for a top 4 finish every year in the A10 just like they are in the MAAC - we just need to ensure we keep our good coaches and cut the cord a little faster on those who are not working out...
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glen
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Post by glen on Dec 26, 2013 13:07:01 GMT -5
Hockeyguy - I think you miss the point of the A10...it is a hoop league. Not to sound to harsh but the other sports don't count as much - and I believe the A10 sees it that way. I don't believe the A10 is superior to the MAAC in all sports. It may be inferior to the MAAC in many sports actually. The A10 does a number of associate membership arrangements for sports too so I don't believe that this is equivalent to a move to a BCS league.
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Post by psycholojets on Dec 26, 2013 14:08:26 GMT -5
The A-10 is a better brand. That is beyond dispute. As things shake up it is inconceivable that the MAAC will end up a more competitive league than the A-10. If asked you make the move.
The impressive thing to me is that Siena is starting to make the structural changes to support the new league in advance of the official invite. That gives me a sense that we could become competitive in the A-10 sooner rather than later. I still would expect a transition period where we would take some lumps.
The structure of NCAA sports is changing so I for one, IMHO, don't think it's the time to be content as a big fish in a small and shrinking pond.
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Post by hockeyguy on Dec 26, 2013 14:32:02 GMT -5
glen, I understand that the A-10 is primarily "a hoop league" and likely sees itself that way, the question is, does the Siena College administration see that as good thing for the school? Maybe they do, I am not privy to their thoughts.
Nolesaint... playing in the A10 might actually hurt attendance. The attendance for the last 5 A10 games at the TUC is actually well below the season average even after subtracting out the UA game. The Numbers: SBU (11/11)6,067, Fordham (12/11) 5,476, UMass (11/12) 5,739, LaSalle (12/12) 5,907, SBU (11/13) 5,654. Average attendance (after removing UA game) 2011-2012 season - 6,375 2012-2013 season - 6,063. Even SPU drew 6,299 last year and 7,095 the year before that. We'll see how the Fordham game goes Monday night but I would be surprised if they crack 6,000. And these are the teams that would be coming to the TUC on a regular basis in the new A10 (Fordham, LaSalle, UMass, SBU).
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