legacy
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Post by legacy on Jan 27, 2018 12:33:55 GMT -5
Cellar rat-totally agree with your proposal of emailing/contacting Siena admin after the season-or even before. There is strength in numbers-especially the ones that come after dollar signs. We now have only 2 season tickets which we will never relinquish. But-we will NOT donate in any way shape or form to Siena again despite the fact that we are alumni, our daughter graduated from Siena last year, and over 40 members of my family graduated from Siena. We are in favor a change in coaching, however the wins and losses are not the only reason. We cannot support a coach who is a walking hypocrisy-to his job as a teacher, mentor and developer of young men as both athletes and students. A good coach does exactly that. According to its definition,a coach is " a person who teaches people to improve at a sport, skill or in school"...who gives "instruction, advice through patient tutoring." IMO the coach should also exemplify the moral values of Siena (as a Franciscan institution).
So, a walking hypocrisy? To whom is Siena beholden? Its students and student athletes and extended Siena family...or its "coach"?
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 27, 2018 12:48:08 GMT -5
Cellar rat-totally agree with your proposal of emailing/contacting Siena admin after the season-or even before. There is strength in numbers-especially the ones that come after dollar signs. We now have only 2 season tickets which we will never relinquish. But-we will NOT donate in any way shape or form to Siena again despite the fact that we are alumni, our daughter graduated from Siena last year, and over 40 members of my family graduated from Siena. We are in favor a change in coaching, however the wins and losses are not the only reason. We cannot support a coach who is a walking hypocrisy-to his job as a teacher, mentor and developer of young men as both athletes and students. A good coach does exactly that. According to its definition,a coach is " a person who teaches people to improve at a sport, skill or in school"...who gives "instruction, advice through patient tutoring." IMO the coach should also exemplify the moral values of Siena (as a Franciscan institution). So, a walking hypocrisy? To whom is Siena beholden? It's students and student athletes and extended Siena family...or its "coach"? I think we may have an administration including the president and the BOT that thinks that the men’s basketball program is fine where it is. The numbers are acceptable to them; both financially and on the court. That’s fine, but I’d like to know what the expectation is. If we get a new coach with the expectation that we are the top dogs of the Maac year in-year out, I’ll support the program. In addition we need the expectation of moving up to a higher conference, logically that would be the A10. Siena has the fan base and I’m quite confident boster donations would sky rocket. If that is not the expectation, my 4 seats will be empty next year. |
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sky
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Post by sky on Jan 27, 2018 13:03:29 GMT -5
Does anyone remember the Siena team, coached by Rob Lanier in 2002 that was led by Prosper? During the MAAC tourney they were a 7 seed and Prosper and the rest of the team decide to do things their way and went on to win the tourney and a first round NCAA game. I can remember Lanier coaching/standing on the sideline trying to figure out what was going on. He was totally clueless. I'd love to see something similar happen this year regarding the "young saints" deciding to run and gun. Not saying they'd win anything but just up the tempo to try and make things interesting. What's So So going to do, try and transfer them all out? Um that team had way more talent than the current Saints: www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/siena/2002.htmlWho on this year's team is even close to a Proper, or Dwayne, or Tommy? Please. Top to bottom that team is more talented and would crush the current Aints. And do not care who is coaching either squad. Just like Laniers team...I think this team could do better on their own without Patsos...I remember Lanier screaming at them and Prosper just waving him off |
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 27, 2018 13:08:04 GMT -5
Um that team had way more talent than the current Saints: www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/siena/2002.htmlWho this year's team is even close to a Proper, or Dwayne, or Tommy? Please. Top to bottom that team is more talented and would crush the current Aints. And do not care who is coaching either squad. Hoopdad, Talent wasn't my point. Just trying to get to a work around where Siena picks up the pace and gets away from Pastos slowball. There is a reason why this team / coach plays slowball. They cannot defend and they cannot score consistently. Get this team in a running match and they will get blown out of the gym by the opposing team most nights. Either way they are going get beat. Agree with others on here, JP is controlling the pace and running the shot clock down in order to avoid being blown out every game. Then he can continue to claim the team is right there and close to turning the corner. Tough to do that when you get blown out. JP may not be a great coach but he is not stupid. |
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 27, 2018 13:10:16 GMT -5
Um that team had way more talent than the current Saints: www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/siena/2002.htmlWho on this year's team is even close to a Proper, or Dwayne, or Tommy? Please. Top to bottom that team is more talented and would crush the current Aints. And do not care who is coaching either squad. Just like Laniers team...I think this team could do better on their own without Patsos...I remember Lanier screaming at them and Prosper just waving him off How much better? You did not address the significant difference in talent levels between the two teams. |
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legacy
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Post by legacy on Jan 27, 2018 14:06:30 GMT -5
I think we are not being fair. Anyone would have a hard time playing for this coach. Imagine a boss who constantly changes his expectations and deadlines, berates and humiliates you publicly for any and all imagined and real infractions, then Immediately pulls you off a production team, only to reinsert you if and when he feels like it, if the moon is full or it's raining or snowing or he just doesn't really like you and now he does. Good teachers and coaches ( who are teachers!)encourage,set expectations and goals and a plan to achieve these- and discover individual talents and strengths and build on them to create a cohesive whole. Success, both individual and group is more easily found when your roles are defined in a collegial, supportive atmosphere. That's my beef with Siena allowing this abuse to continue,
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 27, 2018 14:22:19 GMT -5
Apparently not anyone. Some teams and players have excelled under JP. Let me ask you this, why has Jimmy been able to win and be well above .500 during some seasons (Both at Loyola and Siena) and others he has not? Same coach, same coaching style, same coaching philosophy. The difference IMO is the players and the talent level of those players. My beef with JP is less about his coaching and more about his recruiting and retaining of players. His record shows that when he has quality players he can win in the MAAC: www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jimmy-patsos-1.html. I get it that a lot of people on here do not like his coaching style or personality. He is a polarizing figure in many ways. But he is who he is. Players know exactly what they are getting into when they sign up play for him. So people can continue to say that this team is talented and can win. I do not see it. If Jimmy could win with the group he would. He hasn't and he can't. Do you think he wants to lose? If he had recruited and retained enough quality players while at Siena he would have a winning record and would have a winning season this year. The bottom line he did not do that. Hence the loosing record. |
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 27, 2018 14:36:12 GMT -5
Apparently not anyone. Some teams and players have excelled under JP. Let me ask you this, why has Jimmy been able to win and be well above .500 during some seasons (Both at Loyola and Siena) and others he has not? Same coach, same coaching style, same coaching philosophy. The difference IMO is the players and the talent level of those players. My beef with JP is less about his coaching and more about his recruiting and retaining of players. His record shows that when he has quality players he can win in the MAAC: www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jimmy-patsos-1.html. I get it that a lot of people on here do not like his coaching style or personality. He is a polarizing figure in many ways. But he is who he is. Players know exactly what they are getting into when they sign up play for him. So people can continue to say that this team is talented and can win. I do not see it. If Jimmy could win with the group he would. He hasn't and he can't. Do you think he wants to lose? If he had recruited and retained enough quality players while at Siena he would have a winning record and would have a winning season this year. The bottom line he did not do that. Hence the loosing record. he had quality players last season, 4 (1000 pt) scorers plus Nico.........and he only went 17-17, sorry but that is the BEST talent he has had, only to sputter...........again good players will certainly do better and enhance chance of winning, but only so far with JP at the helm............what you see is what you get that is correct, averages out to mediocre no matter how you want to slice it...........in order for this program to get back on its' feet, talent and coaching upgrade is needed asap............. |
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 27, 2018 14:38:11 GMT -5
Apparently not anyone. Some teams and players have excelled under JP. Let me ask you this, why has Jimmy been able to win and be well above .500 during some seasons (Both at Loyola and Siena) and others he has not? Same coach, same coaching style, same coaching philosophy. The difference IMO is the players and the talent level of those players. My beef with JP is less about his coaching and more about his recruiting and retaining of players. His record shows that when he has quality players he can win in the MAAC: www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jimmy-patsos-1.html. I get it that a lot of people on here do not like his coaching style or personality. He is a polarizing figure in many ways. But he is who he is. Players know exactly what they are getting into when they sign up play for him. So people can continue to say that this team is talented and can win. I do not see it. If Jimmy could win with the group he would. He hasn't and he can't. Do you think he wants to lose? If he had recruited and retained enough quality players while at Siena he would have a winning record and would have a winning season this year. The bottom line he did not do that. Hence the loosing record. he had quality players last season, 4 (1000 pt) scorers plus Nico.........and he only went 17-17, sorry but that is the BEST talent he has had, only to sputter...........again good players will certainly do better and enhance chance of winning, but only so far with JP at the helm............what you see is what you get that is correct, averages out to mediocre no matter how you want to slice it...........in order for this program to get back on its' feet, talent and coaching upgrade is needed asap............. so how do you account for the seasons that he has been well above .500 and the year he won the MAAC? |
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Post by MTS on Jan 27, 2018 14:47:36 GMT -5
he had quality players last season, 4 (1000 pt) scorers plus Nico.........and he only went 17-17, sorry but that is the BEST talent he has had, only to sputter...........again good players will certainly do better and enhance chance of winning, but only so far with JP at the helm............what you see is what you get that is correct, averages out to mediocre no matter how you want to slice it...........in order for this program to get back on its' feet, talent and coaching upgrade is needed asap............. so how do you account for the seasons that he has been well above .500 and the year he won the MAAC? Never won the regular season in now 14 years. Best finish was second with Loyola. His best two years were his last two at Loyola. He's not a horrible bench coach but he pretty much needs a ton of talent to win and even then (see last year) is not a guarantee. The year Loyola won the tournament - Siena even helped him out. Loyola had an easy quarterfinal game (which #2 seed typically has) and then Siena beat Manhattan the #3. So he got to beat #7, #6 Siena coached by Mitch and Fairfield upset Iona in the semifinals and JP beat Fairfield 48-44 in the title game. Basically he lucked his way to a MAAC title. The following year he did win 23 games but bombed in the MAAC quarterfinals. He had some decent years at Loyola - 15-13, 18-13, 19-14 but then crashed and went 12-20, 13-17 and 15-15 before his last two years. Siena unfortunately bought it up. JP has actually been a worse coach at Siena despite having better resources because his recruiting has been so bad. It could cover for some of his coaching deficiencies but no more. |
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 27, 2018 14:51:49 GMT -5
he had quality players last season, 4 (1000 pt) scorers plus Nico.........and he only went 17-17, sorry but that is the BEST talent he has had, only to sputter...........again good players will certainly do better and enhance chance of winning, but only so far with JP at the helm............what you see is what you get that is correct, averages out to mediocre no matter how you want to slice it...........in order for this program to get back on its' feet, talent and coaching upgrade is needed asap............. so how do you account for the seasons that he has been well above .500 and the year he won the MAAC? in 14 yrs, he has won 20 games (4 times)...........and let's be fair here, no bang up schedule either, when you play 30+ games you should win 2/3's of them...........never won the league out-right, never.........only 1 NCAA (destroyed by Ohio St), also got CIT with Loyola (beat BU, a nice win vs. Kent, then lost to ECarolina).........gets CBI title with Siena (took 38 games to get to 20 wins) which was a breath of fresh air after Mitch..........but after that he gathers no momentum off the CBI run..........another 21 wins 2 yrs later to flame out in first round of CBI (at home) when they should have won that event also..............and being .500 or a "hair" above is not exactly being successful.............AND think of this, after he loses 20 or more games this yr, it will be the 4TH time he has done that in his stellar career.................he needs to get OFF the sidelines and get behind the TV camera, there is a place he will excel........... |
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Jan 27, 2018 14:53:57 GMT -5
Yeah
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 27, 2018 15:10:54 GMT -5
so how do you account for the seasons that he has been well above .500 and the year he won the MAAC? in 14 yrs, he has won 20 games (4 times)...........and let's be fair here, no bang up schedule either, when you play 30+ games you should win 2/3's of them...........never won the league out-right, never.........only 1 NCAA (destroyed by Ohio St), also got CIT with Loyola (beat BU, a nice win vs. Kent, then lost to ECarolina).........gets CBI title with Siena (took 38 games to get to 20 wins) which was a breath of fresh air after Mitch..........but after that he gathers no momentum off the CBI run..........another 21 wins 2 yrs later to flame out in first round of CBI (at home) when they should have won that event also..............and being .500 or a "hair" above is not exactly being successful.............AND think of this, after he loses 20 or more games this yr, it will be the 4TH time he has done that in his stellar career.................he needs to get OFF the sidelines and get behind the TV camera, there is a place he will excel........... And let me guess, you think player talent or lack their have had nothing to do with the winning records versus loosing ones? Listen I am not trying to boost Jimmy's coaching capability. I have repeatedly on here said that I think he is an OK coach and not as bad as many on here say he is. I think too many people on here let their disdain for the guy cloud their vision. The point of my post is that he is a very inconsistent recruiter, has done a poor job of attracting and keeping quality players at Siena and that this years team is not very talented. Some of that is youth and inexperience and some is just the lack of MAAC quality talent. In the end JP, and every coach's record speaks for itself. BTW, how many current D1 NCAA coaches win 2/3 (.667) of their games? I think you are overstating that a bit. |
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 27, 2018 15:31:38 GMT -5
in 14 yrs, he has won 20 games (4 times)...........and let's be fair here, no bang up schedule either, when you play 30+ games you should win 2/3's of them...........never won the league out-right, never.........only 1 NCAA (destroyed by Ohio St), also got CIT with Loyola (beat BU, a nice win vs. Kent, then lost to ECarolina).........gets CBI title with Siena (took 38 games to get to 20 wins) which was a breath of fresh air after Mitch..........but after that he gathers no momentum off the CBI run..........another 21 wins 2 yrs later to flame out in first round of CBI (at home) when they should have won that event also..............and being .500 or a "hair" above is not exactly being successful.............AND think of this, after he loses 20 or more games this yr, it will be the 4TH time he has done that in his stellar career.................he needs to get OFF the sidelines and get behind the TV camera, there is a place he will excel........... And let me guess, you think player talent or lack their have had nothing to do with the winning records versus loosing ones? Listen I am not trying to boost Jimmy's coaching capability. I have repeatedly on here said that I think he is an OK coach and not as bad as many on here say he is. I think too many people on here let their disdain for the guy cloud their vision. The point of my post is that he is a very inconsistent recruiter, has done a poor job of attracting and keeping quality players at Siena and that this years team is not very talented. Some of that is youth and inexperience and some is just the lack of MAAC quality talent. In the end JP, and every coach's record speaks for itself. BTW, how many current D1 NCAA coaches win 2/3 (.667) of their games? I think you are overstating that a bit. you have overstated the obvious, his record is what it is, that's what you get when you take him on as a coach..........we aren't getting anything more out of him.............I have been at dinners with JP and many other events, he is extremely likeable off the court, very entertaining & superbly engaging (there is NO disdain from me on that angle).......but he is a lousy basketball coach, too many things are not done to enhance a programs success, to which we have posted on this board to ad nauseum (recruiting, game planning, scouting, in game adjustments, handling of players, etc, etc, etc....)............. |
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 27, 2018 15:35:49 GMT -5
And let me guess, you think player talent or lack their have had nothing to do with the winning records versus loosing ones? Listen I am not trying to boost Jimmy's coaching capability. I have repeatedly on here said that I think he is an OK coach and not as bad as many on here say he is. I think too many people on here let their disdain for the guy cloud their vision. The point of my post is that he is a very inconsistent recruiter, has done a poor job of attracting and keeping quality players at Siena and that this years team is not very talented. Some of that is youth and inexperience and some is just the lack of MAAC quality talent. In the end JP, and every coach's record speaks for itself. BTW, how many current D1 NCAA coaches win 2/3 (.667) of their games? I think you are overstating that a bit. you have overstated the obvious, his record is what it is, that's what you get when you take him on as a coach..........we aren't getting anything more out of him.............I have been at dinners with JP and many other events, he is extremely likeable off the court, very entertaining & superbly engaging (there is NO disdain from me on that angle).......but he is a lousy basketball coach, too many things are not done to enhance a programs success, to which we have posted on this board to ad nauseum (recruiting, game planning, scouting, in game adjustments, handling of players, etc, etc, etc....)............. That is all fine and agree with most of what you say. However you still have not addressed the difference between his winning years and losing ones. And your comment about winning 2/3 of games. |
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