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Post by playerparentcoach on Jun 18, 2013 0:41:12 GMT -5
wow you guys are REAL fans....I love it...going to be a great season
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Jun 18, 2013 2:46:28 GMT -5
[quote source="/post/15657/thread" timestamp="1371514048" author="@kk Marquis not a shooter but he, at least, seems to know he's not a shooter. Having seen Marquis shoot I can assure you that you are grossly underestimating his ability to shoot. He is Ronald Moore with an offensive game. If he gets enough minutes he could well lead the league in thefts. I like the part about Ronald Moore with an offensive game. I think this kid is going to be the real deal. He should get 10 a game just from being on the same floor with Lavon. These two are going to feed off of each other. I don't know what our record is going to be but I think for the season we are going to score over 70 per.
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Post by greenblood on Jun 18, 2013 7:02:29 GMT -5
I don't see the type of minutes you are predicting MTS. Silas can't stay out of foul trouble to go 33 minutes and I hope a freshmen like Long doesn't have to play those minutes either. Lets hope for more balance I am going to bet that Imoh may not be so foul prone this year with the new system/staff and increased muscle/body control development. Just a hunch....I know how hard he is working.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jun 18, 2013 7:09:55 GMT -5
I agree with Greenblood here ...Silas is working his tail off....it will show in more than one part of his game...
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Jun 18, 2013 8:07:25 GMT -5
Don't forget though that Siena could be averaging another 7+ ppg with Jimmy. His teams at Loyola averaged just under 69 ppg during his 9 years at Loyola. Last year, we only averaged 60. More points to go around now. I think that this roster has more scoring depth than the recent Loyola teams. Those team's averaged 67 with really only 3 consistent scorers. Hymes is gonna get his shots up. As of right now, compared to Buie, Hymes is the most efficient guard in the universe. Buie may be better off as a Justin Drummond type guy who comes off the bench and drives to the basket until he proves he can pass and make shots. There's still a legitimate chance that Hymes ends up being the leading scorer. I thought Patsos's offensive philosophy was "first team to 80 wins". Why were his Loyola teams only averaging in the 60s? That sounds like Mitch-ball to me. I am expecting this team to average in the mid to high 70s. Last season was NCAA Men's College Hoops' lowest scoring season in some 50 years, lowest since the inception of the shot clock. Still, Loyola came in at just below the median at 189th in scoring (67.1 ppg). However, their tempo-free offensive ranking was 133. Siena's scoring ranked 323rd out of 347 teams, with a whopping 60 ppg. Their tempo-free ranking was a mighty 297. If you look at other recent seasons, you will see similar trends amongst the two programs. Were the recent Loyola teams hitting 80 ppg? No, but so few teams are putting up those numbers in today's game. Still, Mitch ball it is not.
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Jun 18, 2013 9:58:50 GMT -5
I thought Patsos's offensive philosophy was "first team to 80 wins". Why were his Loyola teams only averaging in the 60s? That sounds like Mitch-ball to me. I am expecting this team to average in the mid to high 70s. Last season was NCAA Men's College Hoops' lowest scoring season in some 50 years, lowest since the inception of the shot clock. Still, Loyola came in at just below the median at 189th in scoring (67.1 ppg). However, their tempo-free offensive ranking was 133. Siena's scoring ranked 323rd out of 347 teams, with a whopping 60 ppg. Their tempo-free ranking was a mighty 297. If you look at other recent seasons, you will see similar trends amongst the two programs. Were the recent Loyola teams hitting 80 ppg? No, but so few teams are putting up those numbers in today's game. Still, Mitch ball it is not. great stats! In my 30+ years of watching Siena basketball, I have never been exasperated like I was last year at games. I truly don't think we are going to even recognize this team in the fall compared to what we have had in the last few seasons. Between the dramatic change in the coaching staff, a drastic change in playing style, and such a new roster of players, the Mitch era is going to seem like it was a lot longer ago than just several months. Whether we win or lose a particular game next season isn't as important as the fact that we will be back to "exciting basketball." I know that if I err in judgement it is always on the side of being one of the optimists, but I think this young team is going to be a lot of fun to watch. The motor on some of our new players is fantastic. I think their addition to the team is going to energize and rejuvenate all of the old players. The difference in assists per game is going to be fantastic. Go Saints!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 10:06:51 GMT -5
I thought Patsos's offensive philosophy was "first team to 80 wins". Why were his Loyola teams only averaging in the 60s? That sounds like Mitch-ball to me. I am expecting this team to average in the mid to high 70s. Man, I try to think positive but you always out do me. A Patsos' coached team hasn't scored over 67 pts a game in 5 years. Not since 2007-2008 with Gerald Brown when they scored 72 pts a game. 2nd highest in Jimmy's time at Loyola. In 9 years, he only had 3 years in the 70's. 77,72,71 were the three highest. The rest were in the 60's. You think next year (with a team with mostly frosh and sophs) Jimmy's team is gonna do what he's only done once in the 9 years before? Now I think there's a lot of offensive talent on this team; perhaps even more scoring depth than Jimmy had at Loyola recently ...but I'll be happy with 67 ppg and forcing more turnovers with the press. An improved turnover margin is the #1 stat I want to see.
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Post by MTS on Jun 18, 2013 10:49:52 GMT -5
I expect Siena will average in the 68-70 PPG range next year. Once Jimmy brings in more talent and as the freshmen gain experience that will go up.
I see Poole averaging 15-16, Hymes 10-11, Long 12-13, Wright 8-9, JO 5-6, Silas 8-9 - the rest of the rotation 10-12 points.
Again Buie is a big factor. If he is able to play next year we get a big boost especially scoring wise.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 18, 2013 10:50:28 GMT -5
I thought Patsos's offensive philosophy was "first team to 80 wins". Why were his Loyola teams only averaging in the 60s? That sounds like Mitch-ball to me. I am expecting this team to average in the mid to high 70s. Man, I try to think positive but you always out do me. A Patsos' coached team hasn't scored over 67 pts a game in 5 years. Not since 2007-2008 with Gerald Brown when they scored 72 pts a game. 2nd highest in Jimmy's time at Loyola. In 9 years, he only had 3 years in the 70's. 77,72,71 were the three highest. The rest were in the 60's. You think next year (with a team with mostly frosh and sophs) Jimmy's team is gonna do what he's only done once in the 9 years before? Now I think there's a lot of offensive talent on this team; perhaps even more scoring depth than Jimmy had at Loyola recently ...but I'll be happy with 67 ppg and forcing more turnovers with the press. An improved turnover margin is the #1 stat I want to see. Well the stats don't lie obviously. But I wasn't hearing things when Patsos has said mulitple times after being hired at Siena that he's going to play fast and his offensive philosophy is "first one to 80 wins". So why would he say that if he in fact doesn't play that way? I'm thinking this Siena team will have more scorers than his Loyola teams did, and that's why you'll see team scoring averages in the 70s. If you run, press, and hit your shots, I don't see how a team would only average in the 60s. One thing is for sure, whatever they do will be an improvement over the inept offense run by the previous coach.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 11:33:00 GMT -5
I don't see the type of minutes you are predicting MTS. Silas can't stay out of foul trouble to go 33 minutes and I hope a freshmen like Long doesn't have to play those minutes either. Lets hope for more balance I am going to bet that Imoh may not be so foul prone this year with the new system/staff and increased muscle/body control development. Just a hunch....I know how hard he is working. I think so too. He looked like he was forcing his game(jitterbug) last year and not anything like the few times I saw him in high school/aau . Here's hoping to see the "zen" like Imoh back.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 11:41:12 GMT -5
Man, I try to think positive but you always out do me. A Patsos' coached team hasn't scored over 67 pts a game in 5 years. Not since 2007-2008 with Gerald Brown when they scored 72 pts a game. 2nd highest in Jimmy's time at Loyola. In 9 years, he only had 3 years in the 70's. 77,72,71 were the three highest. The rest were in the 60's. You think next year (with a team with mostly frosh and sophs) Jimmy's team is gonna do what he's only done once in the 9 years before? Now I think there's a lot of offensive talent on this team; perhaps even more scoring depth than Jimmy had at Loyola recently ...but I'll be happy with 67 ppg and forcing more turnovers with the press. An improved turnover margin is the #1 stat I want to see. Well the stats don't lie obviously. But I wasn't hearing things when Patsos has said mulitple times after being hired at Siena that he's going to play fast and his offensive philosophy is "first one to 80 wins". So why would he say that if he in fact doesn't play that way? I'm thinking this Siena team will have more scorers than his Loyola teams did, and that's why you'll see team scoring averages in the 70s. If you run, press, and hit your shots, I don't see how a team would only average in the 60s. One thing is for sure, whatever they do will be an improvement over the inept offense run by the previous coach. I cant see this team not being able to at least score ten more points per game if just by cutting down on some turnovers on the offensive end alone. They threw away alot of possessions last year combined with a horrible offensive scheme.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 11:53:23 GMT -5
Well the stats don't lie obviously. But I wasn't hearing things when Patsos has said mulitple times after being hired at Siena that he's going to play fast and his offensive philosophy is "first one to 80 wins". So why would he say that if he in fact doesn't play that way? I'm thinking this Siena team will have more scorers than his Loyola teams did, and that's why you'll see team scoring averages in the 70s. If you run, press, and hit your shots, I don't see how a team would only average in the 60s. One thing is for sure, whatever they do will be an improvement over the inept offense run by the previous coach. Getting into the 70s will ultimately come down to: 1.) how effective the press is 2.) how efficient our scoring is 3.) the makeup of the lineup. Tempo doesn't do everything. The lineup we use will determine how many turnovers we force. If we play big like you say, with JO, then pressing with Hymes, Poole, and Long won't force as many turnovers as playing another guard in there. With a big lineup, we'd be more focused on rebounding margin for extra possessions like Mitch was. It will all be a tradeoff based on who is playing well. I don't think we can score in the 70's playing 2 big men this year. Now, Wright could be a better ballhawk and that could help but Poole still isn't gonna get you 50 steals a year no matter what system he's in so putting quicker guys around him is important if you're trying to win by forcing turnovers. Hymes should steal more this year in a system that actually presses and allows him to NOT play 40 mins, but how much? With all these factors, I'm just hoping we find a happy medium between getting steals, rebounding, and not turning the ball over. 67 ppg is my goal.
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Jun 18, 2013 12:16:07 GMT -5
I expect Siena will average in the 68-70 PPG range next year. Once Jimmy brings in more talent and as the freshmen gain experience that will go up. I see Poole averaging 15-16, Hymes 10-11, Long 12-13, Wright 8-9, JO 5-6, Silas 8-9 - the rest of the rotation 10-12 points. Again Buie is a big factor. If he is able to play next year we get a big boost especially scoring wise. Using your lowest prognostications per player, you expect Siena to average AT LEAST 68 ppg, with 3 Freshman totaling at least 25 ppg, which would account for 36.76% of the team's scoring (not including Wolfe or White). Here's what Freshman have contributed over the past seven seasons: '12-'13: 60 ppg 15.3% Freshman contribution (which is abysmal considering the Freshman were brought in for scoring). '11-'12: 63.7 ppg 32.65% Freshman contribution (with Beard's PPG removed due to limited games played) '10-'11: 67.8 ppg 17% Freshman contribution '09-'10: 75.1 ppg 7.7% Freshman contribution '08-'09: 77.4 ppg 7.36% Freshman contribution '07-'08': 76.9 ppg 10.53% Freshman contribution '06-'07: 76.2 ppg 37.66% Freshman contribution (The Big 3 being Freshman this year + Cory Magee) Edwin Ubiles is the last Freshman to average more than 10 ppg in his Freshman year without averaging over 30 mpg that season. Obviously each year's Freshman class has different situations ahead of them which can affect their output. For instance, The '11-'12 season was a bit of an anomaly as the Freshman made up over 1/3 of the available scholarship players that season which boosted their playing time. The '07-'08 team, meanwhile, had the likes of Clarence Jackson, Ryan Rossiter, and Chris De La Rosa - no lack of talent in that recruiting class, but they didn't get the burn some other Freshman get due to the talent ahead of them. The point being: If the '13-'14 Freshman are able to produce that kind of scoring output in this upcoming season (and I hope they do) then they have the makings of potentially being a very special class. Also, with approximately 40% of Siena's scoring not returning (I know, what scoring), someone will have to pick up the slack. With that said, MTS' projections could be slightly overreaching/optimistic.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jun 18, 2013 12:29:42 GMT -5
I have to see them play together before knowing how many points will be scored..I do Believe the scoring will be balanced....and I Believe if Lavon gets the the minutes he is capable of getting double doubles.....that's points on the O boards and fastbreak opportunities from the D boards The work to make that a reality has begun....he is in the weight room for the first time today at 3:30 can't wait to see him after 6 weeks of dedication to his body and mind
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Post by MTS on Jun 18, 2013 12:48:53 GMT -5
Might be optimistic...but I do think Lavon and Marquis are college ready players right now for sure. We will see about Javion and Mike Wolfe.
What made Hasbrouck, Ubiles, Franklin and Moore so good was they produced very quickly and got better. With a competent head coach and offensive system I think you'll see both Long and Wright excel. Of course they'll have some ups and downs as frosh but I think both will be very solid players in their first season at Siena. Will they hit the numbers I projected? It will be interesting but it certainly would not be a surprise. I hate to put too much pressure on them but without Buie it might take those numbers from the freshmen to produce a winning season in 2013-2014.
A look at freshmen PPG and Minutes played from notable Siena players. I did not include Rossiter and Jackson because they played in back of so much talent (and in Rossiter's case just not strong enough) their numbers did not stand out.
Evan Hymes (13.9, 36.4) Rob Poole (7.0, 27.4) Kenny Hasbrouck (12.4 PPG, 31.5 MPG) Ronald Moore (7.1, 31.1) Edwin Ubiles (11.8, 28.1) Alex Franklin (8.3, 22.4) Michael Haddix (13.8, 26.1) Scoop Jordan (9.0, 26.2) Jack McClinton (13.6, 32.3) Dwayne Archold (7.0, 16.7) Marcus Faison (7.8, 22.5) Corey Osinski (7.3, 21.9) Jim Cantamessa (6.4, 16.9)
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