$cott
Assistant Coach
Posts: 5,102
Member is Online
Dislikes:
|
Post by $cott on Aug 4, 2022 12:26:45 GMT -5
It is going to be very important that Carm not burn bridges with anyone that decides to leave. With the new transfer rule if guys like Billups and McCollum are looking to transfer after next year then Carm should support them in that and let them know there is always a home for them in the Siena family if the grass doesn't turn out to be greener. If Carm acts like a jilted lover whenever a player leaves then he's going to miss out on the opportunity to get them back later. I have a feeling many of the more successful coaches at the midmajor level are going to be those that recruit kids on the pitch that they will help them get to a higher level and if it doesn't work out then they will be welcome to come back. In this era of basketball I can live with getting the freshman and senior years out of recruits and often get them for either the sophomore or junior year as well. Sure beats a revolving door of one and dones. I completely disagree with your strategy of pitching kids that you will help them get to a higher level. That makes absolutely no sense. You pitch them on your school and program, and you pitch them again after every season to keep them there. And very unlikely a kid will return to a program once he has left and played for another. He may transfer again, but not to one that he previously played for. I think it is a legit angle to get guys in the door that you might not have been able to get otherwise and give yourself a leg up if they then transfer back down like so many have. Let's face it, if bridges were burnt between KC Ndefo and Shaheen Holloway then that Elite 8 run never happens, they probably don't even win the MAAC Tournament. I'm not saying it is necessarily the right angle for Carm but I can see midmajor coaches going that route and being successful.
|
|
saints15
Junior
Posts: 1,113
Member is Online
Dislikes:
|
Post by saints15 on Aug 4, 2022 16:46:36 GMT -5
It is going to be very important that Carm not burn bridges with anyone that decides to leave. With the new transfer rule if guys like Billups and McCollum are looking to transfer after next year then Carm should support them in that and let them know there is always a home for them in the Siena family if the grass doesn't turn out to be greener. If Carm acts like a jilted lover whenever a player leaves then he's going to miss out on the opportunity to get them back later. I have a feeling many of the more successful coaches at the midmajor level are going to be those that recruit kids on the pitch that they will help them get to a higher level and if it doesn't work out then they will be welcome to come back. In this era of basketball I can live with getting the freshman and senior years out of recruits and often get them for either the sophomore or junior year as well. Sure beats a revolving door of one and dones. I completely disagree with your strategy of pitching kids that you will help them get to a higher level. That makes absolutely no sense. You pitch them on your school and program, and you pitch them again after every season to keep them there. And very unlikely a kid will return to a program once he has left and played for another. He may transfer again, but not to one that he previously played for. I think the point is you sell the kid on the fact you are committed to doing what is best for them. If that means after a year or two they have a chance to move up, you let them know you will help make that happen (after all ‘it’s a players programs’). If it gets to that point you help them but let them know the door is always open if they leave. How many people leave a job, go somewhere else and then realize the mistake and go back? Maybe they never go back but they tell a teammate looking to transfer down…you can trust Carm, he is a good dude and cares about doing what is best for his players.
|
|
mike60
Junior
Posts: 811
Dislikes:
|
Post by mike60 on Aug 8, 2022 14:28:45 GMT -5
I find it dismaying that our country puts a higher value on college sports than academics. I wonder what Japanese and Chinese sports portals are like? How about German and British ones? It's no wonder we're slipping into being a non-factor. I do feel sorry for my grandkids with the mentality of our country's educational leadership. By the time they are middle aged adults we will be third rate.
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,520
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Aug 8, 2022 19:44:00 GMT -5
I find it dismaying that our country puts a higher value on college sports than academics. I wonder what Japanese and Chinese sports portals are like? How about German and British ones? It's no wonder we're slipping into being a non-factor. I do feel sorry for my grandkids with the mentality of our country's educational leadership. By the time they are middle aged adults we will be third rate. What percentage of schools enrollment are scholarship athletes? Less than 1%?? Just because we all talk about it, doesnt mean its what really goes on at Universities/Colleges across the country.
|
|
brian
Junior
Posts: 1,009
Dislikes:
|
Post by brian on Jan 5, 2024 20:35:51 GMT -5
Brycen Goodine, a 6'4" 190 guard with 2 years left, has left Providence. Started career at Syracuse. Seems like the perfect storm for Carm. Has ties with Cooley at PC and City Rocks/Boeheim/Syracuse are tight with Carm. Kids numbers havent been impressive, but he was a 4 star in HS. He's from Mass., so now UMass, with Frank Martin, will be a stiff competitor, but this is a kid we should be involved with. Good night from Mr Goodine.
|
|
|
Post by MTS on Jan 5, 2024 21:14:48 GMT -5
Brycen Goodine, a 6'4" 190 guard with 2 years left, has left Providence. Started career at Syracuse. Seems like the perfect storm for Carm. Has ties with Cooley at PC and City Rocks/Boeheim/Syracuse are tight with Carm. Kids numbers havent been impressive, but he was a 4 star in HS. He's from Mass., so now UMass, with Frank Martin, will be a stiff competitor, but this is a kid we should be involved with. Good night from Mr Goodine. Hoopjunkie should be running our recruiting. I’m serious.
|
|
bigsaintg
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 7,007
Member is Online
Dislikes:
|
Post by bigsaintg on Jan 5, 2024 21:19:00 GMT -5
Good night from Mr Goodine. Hoopjunkie should be running our recruiting. I’m serious. MTS are you no longer getting invites to Carm’s
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,520
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Jan 5, 2024 23:43:04 GMT -5
I get lucky once in awhile Carm showed he can recruit some quality kids, up until a couple years ago. Sophomore class is awful, even with Eley who can shoot you out of a game just as fast as shoot you back in. The freshman class has a couple kids that can help us....in 2025-26. Carm refusing to adapt to the NIL/portal world is killing him. He threw all his eggs in all underclass roster (until SD became eligible) and decided to play teenagers against men. He also forgot the cardinal rule of the MAAC: ITS A GUARD LEAGUE. You need 6-7 solid perimeter players. 2 decent bigs and a project. Our ballhandling and shot creating ability are the worst of any MAAC team Ive ever seen. The kid that dropped a 40 burger on us tonight was someone we def should have been on, and had an inside track for with the above mentioned connections we had. Another City Rock shun, to go along with Beagle & Jackson (UA) Tice (Quin), Rumpel (Man.), Smith, Rogan & Goodine (FF) Why? Sitting on TWO open scholarships when you have a local walk on getting QUALITY minutes? Why?? The most attractive player is the first time sophomore transfer. You can lock him up with the threat of having to sit out a year (as the rule states currently) if he decides to transfer again. Ditch the passport Carm, and stay in your own backyard. I hope its not too late to change the way he thinks. After tonights league performance, vs a team we've OWNED over the last decade, Im scared to think what the next home game looks like attendance wise.
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,697
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Jan 5, 2024 23:52:28 GMT -5
I get lucky once in awhile Carm showed he can recruit some quality kids, up until a couple years ago. Sophomore class is awful, even with Eley who cant shoot you out of a game just as fast as shoot you back in. The freshman class has a couple kids that can help us....in 2025-26. Carm refusing to adapt to the NIL/portal world is killing him. He threw all his eggs in all underclass roster (until SD became eligible) and decided to play teenagers against men. He also forgot the cardinal rule of the MAAC: ITS A GUARD LEAGUE. You need 6-7 solid perimeter players. 2 decent bigs and a project. Our ballhandling and shot creating ability are the worst of any MAAC team Ive ever seen. The kid that dropped a 40 burger on us tonight was someone we def should have been on, and had an inside track for with the above mentioned connections we had. Another City Rock shun, to go along with Beagle & Jackson (UA) Tice (Quin), Rumpel (Man.), Smith, Rogan & Goodine (FF) Why? Sitting on TWO open scholarships when you have a local walk on getting QUALITY minutes? Why?? The most attractive player is the first time sophomore transfer. You can lock him up with the threat of having to sit out a year (as the rule states currently) if he decides to transfer again. Ditch the passport Carm, and stay in your own backyard. I hope its not too late to change the way he thinks. After tonights league performance, vs a team we've OWNED over the last decade, Im scared to think what the next home game looks like attendance wise. Spot on.
|
|
saints15
Junior
Posts: 1,113
Member is Online
Dislikes:
|
Post by saints15 on Jan 6, 2024 10:19:46 GMT -5
I get lucky once in awhile Carm showed he can recruit some quality kids, up until a couple years ago. Sophomore class is awful, even with Eley who can shoot you out of a game just as fast as shoot you back in. The freshman class has a couple kids that can help us....in 2025-26. Carm refusing to adapt to the NIL/portal world is killing him. He threw all his eggs in all underclass roster (until SD became eligible) and decided to play teenagers against men. He also forgot the cardinal rule of the MAAC: ITS A GUARD LEAGUE. You need 6-7 solid perimeter players. 2 decent bigs and a project. Our ballhandling and shot creating ability are the worst of any MAAC team Ive ever seen. The kid that dropped a 40 burger on us tonight was someone we def should have been on, and had an inside track for with the above mentioned connections we had. Another City Rock shun, to go along with Beagle & Jackson (UA) Tice (Quin), Rumpel (Man.), Smith, Rogan & Goodine (FF) Why? Sitting on TWO open scholarships when you have a local walk on getting QUALITY minutes? Why?? The most attractive player is the first time sophomore transfer. You can lock him up with the threat of having to sit out a year (as the rule states currently) if he decides to transfer again. Ditch the passport Carm, and stay in your own backyard. I hope its not too late to change the way he thinks. After tonights league performance, vs a team we've OWNED over the last decade, Im scared to think what the next home game looks like attendance wise. I have a question on this comment…” I hope its not too late to change the way he thinks.”. Are you saying you think he should return? Putting aside the recruiting failures (I’ll give him credit for uncovering a few gems, but the goal is to recruit a complete team), to me he is an awful leader, has shown me no coaching skills, won’t adjust his approach to maximize whatever talent is on the team. This team has regressed EVERY year. I see no redeeming quality to justify why he should return.
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,520
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Jan 6, 2024 10:49:49 GMT -5
I get lucky once in awhile Carm showed he can recruit some quality kids, up until a couple years ago. Sophomore class is awful, even with Eley who can shoot you out of a game just as fast as shoot you back in. The freshman class has a couple kids that can help us....in 2025-26. Carm refusing to adapt to the NIL/portal world is killing him. He threw all his eggs in all underclass roster (until SD became eligible) and decided to play teenagers against men. He also forgot the cardinal rule of the MAAC: ITS A GUARD LEAGUE. You need 6-7 solid perimeter players. 2 decent bigs and a project. Our ballhandling and shot creating ability are the worst of any MAAC team Ive ever seen. The kid that dropped a 40 burger on us tonight was someone we def should have been on, and had an inside track for with the above mentioned connections we had. Another City Rock shun, to go along with Beagle & Jackson (UA) Tice (Quin), Rumpel (Man.), Smith, Rogan & Goodine (FF) Why? Sitting on TWO open scholarships when you have a local walk on getting QUALITY minutes? Why?? The most attractive player is the first time sophomore transfer. You can lock him up with the threat of having to sit out a year (as the rule states currently) if he decides to transfer again. Ditch the passport Carm, and stay in your own backyard. I hope its not too late to change the way he thinks. After tonights league performance, vs a team we've OWNED over the last decade, Im scared to think what the next home game looks like attendance wise. I see no redeeming quality to justify why he should return. I can see 800,000 reasons why he'll probably get another year. Now, that opinion could change if we go 3-22 and the arena is a ghost town in Feb. Im still hoping for the best, but Carm appears to be in big trouble. IF he does somehow survive this $ea$on, he'd need a MONSTER recruiting class.
|
|
bigsaintg
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 7,007
Member is Online
Dislikes:
|
Post by bigsaintg on Jan 6, 2024 11:37:10 GMT -5
Where are the Carm apologists? They seem to have vanished from the Board. Many of us pointed out concerning aspects of recruiting etc. and we were told we were negative etc. where are they?
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,520
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Jan 6, 2024 12:56:33 GMT -5
Where are the Carm apologists? They seem to have vanished from the Board. Many of us pointed out concerning aspects of recruiting etc. and we were told we were negative etc. where are they? They still read the board, but cant really say anything except, "I was wrong." We wont hear that from Carm, or anyone else. Not that it really matters. They've rode as far as they can on this one. Debates are over. Results are in.
|
|
|
Post by siena7127 on Jan 6, 2024 13:53:36 GMT -5
Its my understanding that offer was made early in the recruiting cycle, when a lot of offers are thrown out there, and was later pulled. But regardless, if Coyle, or any of the other 3 for 4’s were so good, why didn’t he/they get any other offers? As for Tice, once you get past the top 10 players those rankings are spotty at best. When that debate came up with Tice/Coyle I asked if anyone had actually seen both play. I did get an answer from someone that had and he said that Tice was clearly the better player. Since every other D1 coach concluded Coyle, and the others, weren’t worth a 4 year offer, that concerns me. Again, I am not saying it’s a bad strategy for your last 1-2 scholarships but Carm seemed to be saying it would be an ongoing approach where he would take a player like that every year. Maybe I read to much into it, but if it’s me I am finding the very best players I can for those 13 scholarships. I also think the idea that those players are more likely to stay, isn’t a sure thing. While some may say…I’m loyal because the coach gave me a shot, I think it’s just as likely they could feel they got screwed by having to prove themselves and could jump at better offers. Coyle did have other offers. In addition to Siena and UMass, he was also offered by Albany. As a for looking for the very best players, if they're all fickle headcases that end up at 3 different schools in 4 years, it's not worth it. And that seems to be where the sport is mostly headed. Better to try to build a roster that's consistent. A team full of transfers plus one and dones every season isn't going to work. They tried it last season and you saw how terrible the team was until it meshed. I for one am glad Carm's trying something different in order to operate in today's college hoops reality. I don't want teams that annually suck until January. So let's see if doing it this way bears any fruit. Maybe it won't. But let's not knock it until we've tried it and it's a failed experiment. That's all I'm saying. It has failed.
|
|
billmurray
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,199
Member is Online
Dislikes:
|
Post by billmurray on Jan 6, 2024 14:07:15 GMT -5
Going to Siena game after Siena game and expecting different results is the definition of Siena basketball insanity. I'll continue to go, but I'm not expecting anything much different at this point. Defensive and offensive execution is nowhere to be found. Even if execution were better, I don't believe you can win consistently forcing the ball down low to a big. This is a shooting guards game and league and if you don't have a roster that suits that system you can't expect satisfactory results.
|
|