The Next Stretch

[Deleted]

Patsos has blinders on. That's it. (Maybe he'll understand a horse racing analogy)
He could easily have won at least 2 more games with this team.

Now, guys like Bentley, Smithen, Horn and others have lower confidence because they'll continue to keep being put into situations they're not suited for because Patsos will blame them for his own blindness.

[goldsaint17]

Wow, I’ve been trying to figure out a way to describe my complaints about this offense, couldn’t quite put it into words. KK explained it so easily a caveman would understand. No idea why it’s so hard for JP to figure out. He has recruited the personnel to do it. Play man to man with Shivers or Camper at the 4 for the vast majority of the game, maybe even press a little bit. Prince is the best in those 4 out, 1 in looks (the reason he’s struggling is he has no room to operate). Gives Nico and Penn so much more room to drive, Bentley, Shivers, and Camper Room to slash.

[Deleted]

I feel like a broken record. I've been saying the same shit since frickin' May.
Not one thing has changed in my mind.

Neither of these three bigs has polished enough offensive talent to justify playing 2 of them at a time on defense during more than isolated stretches for matchups.

You have a team full of guards who can generally drive and shoot and you're putting them in situations where they can't or have been told not to.

And as another aside...you throw Jordan Horn at PG and put him alone on an island with no one to pass to against Louisville athletes!?! He's a frickin' shooting guard. Treat him more like a Ryan Oliver. Don't set him up to fail continually and rip his confidence away. Jimmy has found a way to take a kid who averaged 15 ppg as a SHOOTING guard in Montreal and completely f'd him up...by never getting him clean looks within the offense and throwing him at the PG without support...when Smithen is more capable of doing that and being Penn's backup.

These kids are just being run around in circles without any real, intelligent thought going into what style of play best suits the team and it's individual players' strengths the best.

[greengold4ever]

Dec 13, 2017 13:59:14 GMT -5 @saintkk said:

This team has no legit gameplan on offense that doesn't involve a 1 on 1 play.
The ball movement and off the ball movement is horrible.

This team was never going to be that good on defense but it should have been decent on offense.

Everything in this offense feels forced. They don't find the gaps in the defense and take advantage.

When you have so many guys playing 5+ mins and getting 0 points...you can't always point just to talent level.
Much of that is on the offensive scheme. Throw Heurter out there..0 pts, Camper..0pts...Bentley..0 pts...Friday...0 pts..Horn..0 pts..Degnan..0pts....

And Evan Fisher plays 25 mins and only gets 3 pts.

I mean, even a blind and drunk 1 legged monkey would get a basket once in a while.

This is the offensive sytem. And it sucks. That's on the coach.

I don't know how things will change.

been saying this for yrs................JP has NO idea what to run offensively, and for that matter on many occasions he puts the players in the wrong defensive sets as well..............the flex stinks........lot of folks getting on Penn that he has no assists, not possible to get dimes when the players aren't put in a good position to score.......very rarely do we set screens, and I mean multiple screens, not just those freeing up the ball handler, we need OFF the ball screens on every possession to free guys up...........and I have said the following way too many times as well.........JP is either the dumbest "so-called" coach on the planet or he is one stubborn MFer not to change.......think of this when he was trying to play man D against quick athletic teams, not surprisingly we would get torched.......it is just maddening watching as you can see this happen on the floor, yet rarely anything changes (easy to prep for as well for opponents..........the laziness is brought to a new level).........

[greengold4ever]

Dec 13, 2017 15:00:00 GMT -5 @saintkk said:

I feel like a broken record. I've been saying the same shit since frickin' May.
Not one thing has changed in my mind.

Neither of these three bigs has polished enough offensive talent to justify playing 2 of them at a time on defense during more than isolated stretches for matchups.

You have a team full of guards who can generally drive and shoot and you're putting them in situations where they can't or have been told not to.

And as another aside...you throw Jordan Horn at PG and put him alone on an island with no one to pass to against Louisville athletes!?! He's a frickin' shooting guard. Treat him more like a Ryan Oliver. Don't set him up to fail continually and rip his confidence away. Jimmy has found a way to take a kid who averaged 15 ppg as a SHOOTING guard in Montreal and completely f'd him up...by never getting him clean looks within the offense and throwing him at the PG without support...when Smithen is more capable of doing that and being Penn's backup.

These kids are just being run around in circles without any real, intelligent thought going into what style of play best suits the team and it's individual players' strengths the best.

yup, a leopard has spots, those can't be changed, like a rudderless canoe heading down the white rapids..........who the F wants to play for a guy like that...............

[Deleted]

Evan Fisher may be a team leader and bring those 'intangibles' he supposedly brings to our horrible defense but the 'intangible' pain he causes the offense by clogging the lanes is head and shoulders worse than anything he brings 'intangibly' on defense. And he doesn't even rebound well!

The sooner Jimmy puts another driver out there who primarily keeps the lanes open and clear on offense, the better this team will be. They may not defend as well but they aren't defending well to begin with. At least be able to score for god sakes.

Hell, they might even be better off letting Fisher dangle out on the perimeter like he used to than they are doing what they're doing now. At least the lanes would be a little more open for Penn, Clareth, Shivers, and whomever.

And the only 2 big lineup they should ever consider should involve Sammy Friday as he's the only goddamn big man who will go get a frickin' rebound right now. Yeah, I just called you out Prince.

I bet if Jimmy started Penn, Richard or Bentley, Clareth, Shivers as a 4 some with Friday or Oduro as the lone big they'd score 80+ and still be able to rebound. Just emphasize spreading the floor and driving and the open shots would PILE UP. They'd all be a threat from three and need to be covered...while able to go past their man on a pump fake and an over play..and the big can score easily in a 1 on 1.

How f'in hard is that? Iona has been doing this every effing night for the last 7/8 years. There's a reason guys who didn't shoot well at other places shoot well at Iona and get the 'Cluess' bump. He understands all this.

Jimmy is our opponent's 6th man on D. I just wish someone close to him had the balls to punch him in the face with this knowledge.

[rickyp]

I've come to the conclusion i don't think he does care it's his way or nothing else.I don't care if your in foul trouble you are 6"8 you shouldn't average 5rebounds a game Not playing the minutes your getting.There's nothing going to change for him rebounding wise this year,.First thing i said in Charelston about Prince he has no lower body strength constantly getting pushed off the post position and under basket for defensive rebounds.That never happens to Friday he really has to work on that and stop putting the fu ball down once you get it.Hold survey kick it out repost.Hell if your going to feed the post like last game at least teach these guys post moves and what to do when doubled.😤Somebody someone something please

[Deleted]

Tim Cluess would likely win 18+ games with this team.
I stand by that.

[greenblood]

Dec 13, 2017 14:30:34 GMT -5 @saintkk said:

Teams are double teaming our bigs like it's their job...and why wouldn't they?

Play like this and somebody will ALWAYS be wide open for a three in an Oduro/Friday double team.

3

Playing 2 bigs at a time is almost everything that's wrong with Siena's offense. Here's looking at Evan Fisher who Jimmy refuses to sit. He should be rotated as a center.

Playing Evan Fisher at the PF will get Jimmy Patsos fired.

If you can't score or adequately defend while playing 2 bigs....then take your second big out so you can at least score. And, most of all, encourage guard aggressive takes in a 4 out 1 in lineup!...not contested jumpers!

The primary reason Bentley scored 11 pts the one game was because the lineup was Penn, Bentley, Clareth, and Shivers all at the same time. There was room to roam!!!!!

Doesn't everyone remember his big dunk! It was in a 4 out 1 in scenario where the guy overplayed him to shoot and he had a wide open lane to the basket! Why the F*$% would you then add Fisher back at the 4 and still start Bentley? Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

Pretty sure Lanier used to run this with Prosper at the point; that is how he got open for three's and long twos on the wing after setting up the offense. I remember sitting in Buffalo showing this to Tobin and Craig Carter while they were working under Mitch fighting over who should be the first assistant.

[sienahusker]

I like the smiley face in the key.

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2017 16:54:54 GMT -5 greenblood said:

Pretty sure Lanier used to run this with Prosper at the point; that is how he got open for three's and long twos on the wing after setting up the offense. I remember sitting in Buffalo showing this to Tobin and Craig Carter while they were working under Mitch fighting over who should be the first assistant.

This type of offense is always there if you have a few all-around guard scorers. We have those to varying degrees.

Penn can shoot and drive.
Richard can shoot and drive.
Clareth can shoot and drive.
Shivers can shoot and drive.
Bentley can shoot and drive.
Horn can shoot and drive.
Smithen can shoot and drive.
Heurter can shoot and drive.

Horn is the only Siena guard shooting worse than 32% from three and we know he's supposed to be a shooter.

So why are we clogging driving lanes and not spreading the floor and driving/shooting/drawing fouls?
We're playing stand still offense with poor spacing like a bunch of dopes all because 'Evan Fisher is a cool dude.'

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2017 17:34:58 GMT -5 @saintkk said:

Dec 13, 2017 16:54:54 GMT -5 greenblood said:

Pretty sure Lanier used to run this with Prosper at the point; that is how he got open for three's and long twos on the wing after setting up the offense. I remember sitting in Buffalo showing this to Tobin and Craig Carter while they were working under Mitch fighting over who should be the first assistant.

This type of offense is always there if you have a few all-around guard scorers. We have those to varying degrees.

Penn can shoot and drive.
Richard can shoot and drive.
Clareth can shoot and drive.
Shivers can shoot and drive.
Bentley can shoot and drive.
Horn can shoot and drive.
Smithen can shoot and drive.
Heurter can shoot and drive.

Horn is the only Siena guard shooting worse than 32% from three and we know he's supposed to be a shooter.

So why are we clogging driving lanes and not spreading the floor and driving/shooting/drawing fouls?
We're playing stand still offense with poor spacing like a bunch of dopes all because 'Evan Fisher is a cool dude.'

Testify kk, Testify!

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2017 17:39:40 GMT -5 @racersedge said:

Dec 13, 2017 17:34:58 GMT -5 @saintkk said:

This type of offense is always there if you have a few all-around guard scorers. We have those to varying degrees.

Penn can shoot and drive.
Richard can shoot and drive.
Clareth can shoot and drive.
Shivers can shoot and drive.
Bentley can shoot and drive.
Horn can shoot and drive.
Smithen can shoot and drive.
Heurter can shoot and drive.

Horn is the only Siena guard shooting worse than 32% from three and we know he's supposed to be a shooter.

So why are we clogging driving lanes and not spreading the floor and driving/shooting/drawing fouls?
We're playing stand still offense with poor spacing like a bunch of dopes all because 'Evan Fisher is a cool dude.'

Testify kk, Testify!

I plead the 5th! You know the place Siena should come in this year with this team Oh "If They Only Had a Plan'.
Time's running out to fix this.

[greenblood]

KK: I know you are going to hate this answer but I'm going to say it.....the reason he can't run this is because these kids are out of condition. This type of offense would require lots more running and ball control. Movement without the ball? They will all spit the bit after the first 25 minutes if they have to run around that much. Second big thing....ball control and third good passing. I'm afraid #1 would lead to deficiencies in #2 and #3. Finally, there is confidence...not cockiness...confidence. How much of that is left when you make one mistake and are dispatched to the end of the bench for god only knows how long. Finally, for those of you who didn't hear the pre game interview before Vermont, our illustrious HC has been studying the Syracuse Zone...I'm not even going to try to comment on that statement.

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2017 17:47:48 GMT -5 greenblood said:

KK: I know you are going to hate this answer but I'm going to say it.....the reason he can't run this is because these kids are out of condition. This type of offense would require lots more running and ball control. Movement without the ball? They will all spit the bit after the first 25 minutes if they have to run around that much. Second big thing....ball control and third good passing. I'm afraid #1 would lead to deficiencies in #2 and #3. Finally, there is confidence...not cockiness...confidence. How much of that is left when you make one mistake and are dispatched to the end of the bench for god only knows how long. Finally, for those of you who didn't hear the pre game interview before Vermont, our illustrious HC has been studying the Syracuse Zone...I'm not even going to try to comment on that statement.

My answer to 'conditioning' would be that by playing this way you also bring guys like Smithen back into the mix and also make them more effective. Guys could play less minutes but there would always be a common gameplan no matter who was on the court!

By playing 2 bigs we're giving the postions that Siena has the least depth the most time on the floor.

And also, they don't have to play "fast" to take advantage of 4 out 1 in ..in the half court. St. Peter's rode this exact strategy to 2nd place last year. Hell, they're using it THIS year with less overall guard talent and size than Siena has and they have more wins than we do right now.

I would also argue greatly that playing this way would reduce turnovers because there would always be a wide open man on the wing when a help defender moves over to cover the driver. They'd always have an 'easy out'.