nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Dec 14, 2014 17:18:30 GMT -5
In my opinion Jimmy is doing a very very poor job. Even with the mess Mitch left Jimmy and his staff (they have a direct impact on his job performance) EVERYONE who has been in the business for more than a few years knows what a great place Siena can be for quality players looking for a real opportunity to shine. So far he got Wright and Willem. Long is a huge distraction for the team with his or his mother's insistence on trying to mold him into a wing player. Please know that I am do not mean any thing negative about them in any other aspect of life - but the TRUTH is he is NOT a wing player and it has killed this team many many times. Anyone who is looking at this with any semblance of objectivity can plainly see this fact. Finally, in general his in game antics and lack of bench coaching aka game adjustments is appalling. Like with Mitch, I would love to be proven wrong but I doubt that will happen. Patsos = Magarity
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Post by MTS on Dec 14, 2014 18:06:11 GMT -5
It's funny in the off-season people were worried if Mark Turgeon was going to be in trouble at Maryland and Jimmy could be in the mix. Now we seem some going to the other extreme that he sucks and should be run out of town.
Honestly I don't know where "it is going". I don't have a crystal ball (if I did I'd go to Vegas!). Things have to change and in a hurry.
Many of us definitely overrated the team (still think it can be a winning one in a weak MAAC) but still we should be better than 3-5 and completely being out of sorts 3 times this year (Vermont, Fordham and UA). You can't keep making the same dumb mistakes (i.e. foul situation) and expect to be a good team. No question that the head coach takes responsibility for that.
I think Jimmy Patsos did about as well as you could have hoped for last year. The team Siena had was every bit as successful following a rebuilding job as we've seen (Hewitt in 97-98 and McCaffery in 05-06).
That said it is a new year. Mitch left him a bad situation but as we all know you can't blame your predecessor forever (not that JP has done that). He gets it. Like Jimmy said "If I don't win, I'll get fired".
He needs to adjust and soon. He also needs to increase the talent level and realize But we also should give him more than one year (which was a winning season) and 8 games before we could to the conclusion that he won't be a successful head coach too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 18:14:30 GMT -5
"If I don't win I'll get fired" haven't heard that in while. Probably won't either, don't want to remind anybody of the consequences of losing. He'll get 2 more years to prove his salt. So we can sit and take it.
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Post by MTS on Dec 14, 2014 18:24:28 GMT -5
In my opinion Jimmy is doing a very very poor job. Even with the mess Mitch left Jimmy and his staff (they have a direct impact on his job performance) EVERYONE who has been in the business for more than a few years knows what a great place Siena can be for quality players looking for a real opportunity to shine. So far he got Wright and Willem. Long is a huge distraction for the team with his or his mother's insistence on trying to mold him into a wing player. Please know that I am do not mean any thing negative about them in any other aspect of life - but the TRUTH is he is NOT a wing player and it has killed this team many many times. Anyone who is looking at this with any semblance of objectivity can plainly see this fact. Finally, in general his in game antics and lack of bench coaching aka game adjustments is appalling. Like with Mitch, I would love to be proven wrong but I doubt that will happen. Patsos = Magarity Rob - I respect your opinion as you've been a good Siena fan and long time poster. What do you do if you're Siena? Make a change after two years? After taking over a train wreck and winning a national postseason title in year 1 (albeit a third rate tournament). Is that the solution? See this is why I say lets wait a little longer. And don't get me wrong CRITICISM is perfectly justified. I know I am scratching my head over some of JP's decisions and lesser extent comments on why he makes them. But to label him Magarity this soon in to his tenure is premature don't you think? I respectfully disagree on Long. We can debate his position but he is a good player who has to adjust to fouling. Wright, Long and Brandwijk three potential impact guys is pretty good for two recruiting classes IMHO.
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OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
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Post by OneIndian on Dec 14, 2014 19:31:52 GMT -5
In my opinion Jimmy is doing a very very poor job. Even with the mess Mitch left Jimmy and his staff (they have a direct impact on his job performance) EVERYONE who has been in the business for more than a few years knows what a great place Siena can be for quality players looking for a real opportunity to shine. So far he got Wright and Willem. Long is a huge distraction for the team with his or his mother's insistence on trying to mold him into a wing player. Please know that I am do not mean any thing negative about them in any other aspect of life - but the TRUTH is he is NOT a wing player and it has killed this team many many times. Anyone who is looking at this with any semblance of objectivity can plainly see this fact. Finally, in general his in game antics and lack of bench coaching aka game adjustments is appalling. Like with Mitch, I would love to be proven wrong but I doubt that will happen. Patsos = Magarity Rob - I respect your opinion as you've been a good Siena fan and long time poster. What do you do if you're Siena? Make a change after two years? After taking over a train wreck and winning a national postseason title in year 1 (albeit a third rate tournament). Is that the solution? See this is why I say lets wait a little longer. And don't get me wrong CRITICISM is perfectly justified. I know I am scratching my head over some of JP's decisions and lesser extent comments on why he makes them. But to label him Magarity this soon in to his tenure is premature don't you think? I respectfully disagree on Long. We can debate his position but he is a good player who has to adjust to fouling. Wright, Long and Brandwijk three potential impact guys is pretty good for two recruiting classes IMHO. Just out of curiosity how many games do you physically go to at the TU or on the road?
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Post by MTS on Dec 14, 2014 19:36:13 GMT -5
Rob - I respect your opinion as you've been a good Siena fan and long time poster. What do you do if you're Siena? Make a change after two years? After taking over a train wreck and winning a national postseason title in year 1 (albeit a third rate tournament). Is that the solution? See this is why I say lets wait a little longer. And don't get me wrong CRITICISM is perfectly justified. I know I am scratching my head over some of JP's decisions and lesser extent comments on why he makes them. But to label him Magarity this soon in to his tenure is premature don't you think? I respectfully disagree on Long. We can debate his position but he is a good player who has to adjust to fouling. Wright, Long and Brandwijk three potential impact guys is pretty good for two recruiting classes IMHO. Just out of curiosity how many games do you physically go to at the TU or on the road? I was at the Vermont and Quinnipiac games. I had season tickets from 2006 to 2010. Some money concerns and the PW era and I have not gotten them since. I've met many on this board (Tony, TCBaseball, Indian82, IndianSaint, Greenblood to name a few).
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Dec 14, 2014 19:39:37 GMT -5
Simply put everyone needs to chill. Siena is not Duke, takes time to rebuild. Look at Syracuse this year.
Siena has had some bad luck regarding injuries, transfers and the sophomore illness. White is certainly better than he is playing. The foul situation needs to get under control. No excuse for Long. Personally I think JP is to nice to the kids. He may say he was tough perhaps not enough. Will be a calling year hope for the best.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 14, 2014 19:40:26 GMT -5
Rob - I respect your opinion as you've been a good Siena fan and long time poster. What do you do if you're Siena? Make a change after two years? After taking over a train wreck and winning a national postseason title in year 1 (albeit a third rate tournament). Is that the solution? See this is why I say lets wait a little longer. And don't get me wrong CRITICISM is perfectly justified. I know I am scratching my head over some of JP's decisions and lesser extent comments on why he makes them. But to label him Magarity this soon in to his tenure is premature don't you think? I respectfully disagree on Long. We can debate his position but he is a good player who has to adjust to fouling. Wright, Long and Brandwijk three potential impact guys is pretty good for two recruiting classes IMHO. Just out of curiosity how many games do you physically go to at the TU or on the road? Most games are available on TV or video feed. I have seen all the games this year on TV. Does that mean I can't have an opinion?
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Dec 14, 2014 19:42:48 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity how many games do you physically go to at the TU or on the road? Most games are available on TV or video feed. I have seen all the games this year on TV. Does that mean I can't have an opinion? Didn't ask you.
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purple71
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Post by purple71 on Dec 14, 2014 19:53:31 GMT -5
Guys, take a deep breath. This is Coach Patsos's 2nd year and his contract runs for another 4 seasons. That is the time frame within which to evaluate his performance. He turned Loyola around and is working on turning Siena not around but back to where it was under some, but not all, of his predecessors.
Talk of his shortcomings is a bit premature and sure as hell Siena isn't going to pull the plug on him anytime in the near future. I believe he will be the guy to take Siena back to what it was and that he will be here for the long haul.
I am not a Siena grad but an Albany resident who follows Siena hoop and has followed it since it went to D1 even at the damn ARC where you had to walk across the frozen tunda from the parking lot.
I invite anyone who is serious with their "Jimmy has to go" talk to visit the Holy Cross board: crossports.com to see what the premature firing of a coach can do to a program. They have a number of armchair coaches as well but at the end of the day none of them are college level savants basketball wise.
I also don't see why folks criticize Lavon Long's mom for her opinion. Do you really think a mother can possibly be unbiased? Take her post with that in mind.
My Christmas wish for this Board is that we all stop criticizing the players. In my section (119) there are 2 guys with Siena shirts who constantly yell criticism to the Siena players to the point where one lady yelled at them to shut up. They too are part of the Jimmy has to go clique but I don't know if they are posters here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 20:27:00 GMT -5
Guys, take a deep breath. This is Coach Patsos's 2nd year and his contract runs for another 4 seasons. That is the time frame within which to evaluate his performance. He turned Loyola around and is working on turning Siena not around but back to where it was under some, but not all, of his predecessors. Talk of his shortcomings is a bit premature and sure as hell Siena isn't going to pull the plug on him anytime in the near future. I believe he will be the guy to take Siena back to what it was and that he will be here for the long haul. I am not a Siena grad but an Albany resident who follows Siena hoop and has followed it since it went to D1 even at the damn ARC where you had to walk across the frozen tunda from the parking lot. I invite anyone who is serious with their "Jimmy has to go" talk to visit the Holy Cross board: crossports.com to see what the premature firing of a coach can do to a program. They have a number of armchair coaches as well but at the end of the day none of them are college level savants basketball wise. I also don't see why folks criticize Lavon Long's mom for her opinion. Do you really think a mother can possibly be unbiased? Take her post with that in mind. My Christmas wish for this Board is that we all stop criticizing the players. In my section (119) there are 2 guys with Siena shirts who constantly yell criticism to the Siena players to the point where one lady yelled at them to shut up. They too are part of the Jimmy has to go clique but I don't know if they are posters here. I don't think people at this point are saying Jimmy has to go, rather Jimmy has to change his coaching style. While that style may have pulled Loyola up to mid-MAAC levels, that is not what we want, expect or are paying for at Siena. He has a team whose majority are HIS recruits. He has, what he identified as crucial, Siena's resources - TUC, fan base, school, etc. and has yet to turn them into a consistent product. He's still Loyola Jimmy and we want to see some movement to Siena Jimmy and all indications are that it ain't gonna happen! Is it unreasonable for fans to expect to see an offense, a game plan being executed, plays, in-game changes to accommodate the impact of what the other team is doing, or a coach actually coaching (berating is not a coaching skill when used exclusively throughout a game regardless of how the game is going). Jimmy handles the media well - they can't wait to hear him say things, usually several, that will generate controversy. That is a step up from Mitch but not the step up we want - that step up has to come on the sidelines. Bottom line - to date, we seem to be overpaying Coach Patsos and severely undervaluing Coach Manning's efforts. Maybe the coach can learn from his pupil if he can focus long enough to see it as a worthwhile activity. As to PPC, she is a distraction that we all recognize as something you would expect from a parent but not on a fan message board. I think she has inadvertently raised expectation levels for her son and that has come back in less than kind comments on his play and fouling tendency. I think if she backed off on the G/F crap the conversation would die a quick death - there are other more important issues to "discuss"!!!!
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Post by MTS on Dec 14, 2014 20:31:31 GMT -5
Guys, take a deep breath. This is Coach Patsos's 2nd year and his contract runs for another 4 seasons. That is the time frame within which to evaluate his performance. He turned Loyola around and is working on turning Siena not around but back to where it was under some, but not all, of his predecessors. Talk of his shortcomings is a bit premature and sure as hell Siena isn't going to pull the plug on him anytime in the near future. I believe he will be the guy to take Siena back to what it was and that he will be here for the long haul. I am not a Siena grad but an Albany resident who follows Siena hoop and has followed it since it went to D1 even at the damn ARC where you had to walk across the frozen tunda from the parking lot. I invite anyone who is serious with their "Jimmy has to go" talk to visit the Holy Cross board: crossports.com to see what the premature firing of a coach can do to a program. They have a number of armchair coaches as well but at the end of the day none of them are college level savants basketball wise. I also don't see why folks criticize Lavon Long's mom for her opinion. Do you really think a mother can possibly be unbiased? Take her post with that in mind. My Christmas wish for this Board is that we all stop criticizing the players. In my section (119) there are 2 guys with Siena shirts who constantly yell criticism to the Siena players to the point where one lady yelled at them to shut up. They too are part of the Jimmy has to go clique but I don't know if they are posters here. I don't think people at this point are saying Jimmy has to go, rather Jimmy has to change his coaching style. While that style may have pulled Loyola up to mid-MAAC levels, that is not what we want, expect or are paying for at Siena. He has a team whose majority are HIS recruits. He has, what he identified as crucial, Siena's resources - TUC, fan base, school, etc. and has yet to turn them into a consistent product. He's still Loyola Jimmy and we want to see some movement to Siena Jimmy and all indications are that it ain't gonna happen! Is it unreasonable for fans to expect to see an offense, a game plan being executed, plays, in-game changes to accommodate the impact of what the other team is doing, or a coach actually coaching (berating is not a coaching skill when used exclusively throughout a game regardless of how the game is going). Jimmy handles the media well - they can't wait to hear him say things, usually several, that will generate controversy. That is a step up from Mitch but not the step up we want - that step up has to come on the sidelines. Bottom line - to date, we seem to be overpaying Coach Patsos and severely undervaluing Coach Manning's efforts. Maybe the coach can learn from his pupil if he can focus long enough to see it as a worthwhile activity. As to PPC, she is a distraction that we all recognize as something you would expect from a parent but not on a fan message board. I think she has inadvertently raised expectation levels for her son and that has come back in less than kind comments on his play and fouling tendency. I think if she backed off on the G/F crap the conversation would die a quick death - there are other more important issues to "discuss"!!!! I agree with you here MP... Jimmy needs to adjust to get the program where we all want to see it at. He needs to "up" his game and aim higher.
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Post by siena7127 on Dec 14, 2014 20:35:25 GMT -5
Guys, take a deep breath. This is Coach Patsos's 2nd year and his contract runs for another 4 seasons. That is the time frame within which to evaluate his performance. He turned Loyola around and is working on turning Siena not around but back to where it was under some, but not all, of his predecessors. Talk of his shortcomings is a bit premature and sure as hell Siena isn't going to pull the plug on him anytime in the near future. I believe he will be the guy to take Siena back to what it was and that he will be here for the long haul. I am not a Siena grad but an Albany resident who follows Siena hoop and has followed it since it went to D1 even at the damn ARC where you had to walk across the frozen tunda from the parking lot. I invite anyone who is serious with their "Jimmy has to go" talk to visit the Holy Cross board: crossports.com to see what the premature firing of a coach can do to a program. They have a number of armchair coaches as well but at the end of the day none of them are college level savants basketball wise. I also don't see why folks criticize Lavon Long's mom for her opinion. Do you really think a mother can possibly be unbiased? Take her post with that in mind. My Christmas wish for this Board is that we all stop criticizing the players. In my section (119) there are 2 guys with Siena shirts who constantly yell criticism to the Siena players to the point where one lady yelled at them to shut up. They too are part of the Jimmy has to go clique but I don't know if they are posters here. I am one of the guys in 119 who critiques the players and I wear a Siena shirt, but I do not feel Jimmy should be let go. I have also been a season ticket holder since the ARC and have been in my seats sine the move to the TUC. Jimmy has my support but I will also voice my critiques. All season ticket holders pay good money to be there. I for one expect the players to play hard and coaches to at the very least have the team prepared.
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Post by billmurray on Dec 14, 2014 20:36:00 GMT -5
I have always been a total body of work kind of guy. MP is heading in the right direction here. At the end of the season a definitive evaluation can be made. Last year started out poorly and ended well enough. I'm willing to be patient and see what March brings, up or down.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 20:46:21 GMT -5
Guys, take a deep breath. This is Coach Patsos's 2nd year and his contract runs for another 4 seasons. That is the time frame within which to evaluate his performance. He turned Loyola around and is working on turning Siena not around but back to where it was under some, but not all, of his predecessors. Talk of his shortcomings is a bit premature and sure as hell Siena isn't going to pull the plug on him anytime in the near future. I believe he will be the guy to take Siena back to what it was and that he will be here for the long haul. I am not a Siena grad but an Albany resident who follows Siena hoop and has followed it since it went to D1 even at the damn ARC where you had to walk across the frozen tunda from the parking lot. I invite anyone who is serious with their "Jimmy has to go" talk to visit the Holy Cross board: crossports.com to see what the premature firing of a coach can do to a program. They have a number of armchair coaches as well but at the end of the day none of them are college level savants basketball wise. I also don't see why folks criticize Lavon Long's mom for her opinion. Do you really think a mother can possibly be unbiased? Take her post with that in mind. My Christmas wish for this Board is that we all stop criticizing the players. In my section (119) there are 2 guys with Siena shirts who constantly yell criticism to the Siena players to the point where one lady yelled at them to shut up. They too are part of the Jimmy has to go clique but I don't know if they are posters here. Next time I will wear my green and gold glasses and sit on my hands like the majority of the season ticket holders. If you are fine with shitty basketball good for you. Maybe Siena can sell you a ticket upgrade next season.
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