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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 22, 2021 8:41:32 GMT -5
if we want to get to the promised land, and no I am not talking about the Final 4................yes, that would be unreal, and the fact that some mid-majors have found their way to that Nirvana, for at least those in the realistic world, the Sweet 16 is a place we should be striving for, simply because NO MAAC team EVER has gotten that far, not even the great LaSalle teams with Lionel Simmons along with 2 other NBA pros (Overton & Woods), in fact they were a 4 seed one year but only won 1 game............and getting to that place is going to be because of GREAT guard play.............sure, our shopping cart wants to be filled with athletic bigs or wings, or that shot blocking genie in the middle, but we can only get to where we want to go if we have great backcourts players.................our history shows exactly that, Brown-Robinson-Bennerman-Moore-Hasbrouck-Ubiles were difference makers.............besides, we know that it is the guards that control the game, those that have truly special ones, which bring great ball handling skills, solid defense, shooting prowess to score, ability to beat their defender off the dribble while finishing and of course distributing the ball for scoring opportunities for others.................every March, we see upsets, but when teams have the terrific guards, they truly have the best chances of advancing no matter who they play...............
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Post by billmurray on Mar 22, 2021 8:55:33 GMT -5
Or a point Forward like Loyola-Chicago has to go along with good guard play. They run some great sets.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Mar 22, 2021 9:12:48 GMT -5
I certainly agree, said from early in the season that you can be a good MAAC team if Jordan King is your 2nd guard, a very good MAAC team if he's your 3rd guard, and a great MAAC team if he's your 4th guard. So think how good we could be if Jordan makes another leap from sophomore to junior year AND winds up our 4th guard. And in that situation we would likely have Hopkins as the 5th guard. So many options at that point including playing a much more uptempo style.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 22, 2021 9:28:16 GMT -5
Not sure I agree. You can win the maac with great guard play and maybe get lucky with an upset, but to get to the next level you have to have both... in addition to bill's example obanor from oral roberts 6 feet 8 225 forward who can also shoot the 3... 28 points.
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 22, 2021 9:38:04 GMT -5
Not sure I agree. You can win the maac with great guard play and maybe get lucky with an upset, but to get to the next level you have to have both... in addition to bill's example obanor from oral roberts 6 feet 8 225 forward who can also shoot the 3... 28 points. Nice to have that luxury like you mention, but plenty of examples where great guard play carries you even without extra help.... winning 1 game can happen, but when you win 2 to get to sweet 16, those with great guards shine.......even Iona hung around because Ross/Gist were keeping them in it, well that & just awful shooting by the Tide....
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 22, 2021 9:50:32 GMT -5
Not sure I agree. You can win the maac with great guard play and maybe get lucky with an upset, but to get to the next level you have to have both... in addition to bill's example obanor from oral roberts 6 feet 8 225 forward who can also shoot the 3... 28 points. Nice to have that luxury like you mention, but plenty of examples where great guard play carries you even without extra help.... winning 1 game can happen, but when you win 2 to get to sweet 16, those with great guards shine.......even Iona hung around because Ross/Gist were keeping them in it, well that & just awful shooting by the Tide.... I just disagree that you can't win with good forwards, only guards. It's not a "guard's league" it's whoever has the best team and coach league. Get the best players that fit your team and your coach.
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Mar 22, 2021 10:24:47 GMT -5
IMO a very good or great basketball team at any level requires 2-3 stud players regardless of position, complementary role players (who understand and embrace their roles), a strong 6-man who can bring energy & contributes when inserted in the game, and a deep bench. You put all of those ingredients together with a talented coach staff and you will have a winning team every time.
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 22, 2021 10:49:36 GMT -5
IMO a very good or great basketball team at any level requires 2-3 stud players regardless of position, complementary role players (who understand and embrace their roles), a strong 6-man who can bring energy & contributes when inserted in the game, and a deep bench. You put all of those ingredients together with a talented coach staff and you will have a winning team every time. Lots of teams with stud players not advancing, also good coaches out.....great guards control the game, always have always will in todaiys college game....
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Post by diamonddog on Mar 22, 2021 12:23:34 GMT -5
I feel a point forward is a deadly weapon in college basketball if they can shoot threes. Iona had one (I forget the name) and Burns was outstanding for Siena last year.
Siena needs something like that.
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 22, 2021 12:54:28 GMT -5
I feel a point forward is a deadly weapon in college basketball if they can shoot threes. Iona had one (I forget the name) and Burns was outstanding for Siena last year. Siena needs something like that. Burns was a PF, and a real good one.....you are referring to a Larry Bird type, sure anyone will take one of those, BUT they are much rarer than talented backcourt players....imho
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Mar 22, 2021 13:22:18 GMT -5
IMO a very good or great basketball team at any level requires 2-3 stud players regardless of position, complementary role players (who understand and embrace their roles), a strong 6-man who can bring energy & contributes when inserted in the game, and a deep bench. You put all of those ingredients together with a talented coach staff and you will have a winning team every time. Lots of teams with stud players not advancing, also good coaches out.....great guards control the game, always have always will in todaiys college game.... At this stage of the Tourney that is because the advancing teams have better studs and the rest of elements that make for a great team. Also some teams step it up in the NCAA's and some teams fold in the spotlight.
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 22, 2021 13:59:39 GMT -5
Lots of teams with stud players not advancing, also good coaches out.....great guards control the game, always have always will in todaiys college game.... At this stage of the Tourney that is because the advancing teams have better studs and the rest of elements that make for a great team. Also some teams step it up in the NCAA's and some teams fold in the spotlight. better studs?.............this isn't about horse breeding, lol.................not every team folds, they do get out-played..............you want the classic formula, sure that might work, but great guard play can many times compensate for other areas..............................another great example today, no other bigger stud than Luka Garza (and believe me I was pulling for Fran/Iowa), the Hawkeyes also have an abundance of terrific guards, but today the better guards were on the Oregon Ducks, which really leveled Iowa badly...............
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 22, 2021 14:33:20 GMT -5
I think you are discounting what a good defense can do for you in the tourney. And I'm not talking about stall offenses or hack a pack defense. Iona basically gives you what you want in the regular season then steps it up come tourney time and all of a sudden you can't score. I wouldn't want our coach to just load up on scoring guards as you suggest. We need a complete team to compete.
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 22, 2021 14:38:00 GMT -5
I think you are discounting what a good defense can do for you in the tourney. And I'm not talking about stall offenses or hack a pack defense. Iona basically gives you what you want in the regular season then steps it up come tourney time and all of a sudden you can't score. I wouldn't want our coach to just load up on scoring guards as you suggest. We need a complete team to compete. agree.............but I did stress this, not just about scoring, also need defending, ball handling, passing, overall compliment of what terrific backcourt players can bring to the table.................... post from above--- but we can only get to where we want to go if we have great backcourts players.................our history shows exactly that, Brown-Robinson-Bennerman-Moore-Hasbrouck-Ubiles were difference makers.............besides, we know that it is the guards that control the game, those that have truly special ones, which bring great ball handling skills, solid defense, shooting prowess to score, ability to beat their defender off the dribble while finishing and of course distributing the ball for scoring opportunities for others...
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 22, 2021 15:00:41 GMT -5
I think you are discounting what a good defense can do for you in the tourney. And I'm not talking about stall offenses or hack a pack defense. Iona basically gives you what you want in the regular season then steps it up come tourney time and all of a sudden you can't score. I wouldn't want our coach to just load up on scoring guards as you suggest. We need a complete team to compete. agree.............but I did stress this, not just about scoring, also need defending, ball handling, passing, overall compliment of what terrific backcourt players can bring to the table.................... post from above--- but we can only get to where we want to go if we have great backcourts players.................our history shows exactly that, Brown-Robinson-Bennerman-Moore-Hasbrouck-Ubiles were difference makers.............besides, we know that it is the guards that control the game, those that have truly special ones, which bring great ball handling skills, solid defense, shooting prowess to score, ability to beat their defender off the dribble while finishing and of course distributing the ball for scoring opportunities for others... And make FT's ....please....
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