$cott
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Post by $cott on Jun 2, 2022 14:48:40 GMT -5
Im not sure how any of us, deep down inside, can expect much of anything from a walk on in year one. Its hard enough for a highly regarded, scholarship player, let alone a walk on with hardly any offers from anyone. I think we need to set the bar at almost nothing, anything above that is a great surprise. Coyle is a walking on his first year and will be on scholarship the next three, but make no mistake: he's a scholarship level player from day 1. He had offers from UMass along with Albany and is higher rated than Amarri Tice (who everyone wanted badly) on New England Recruiting Report. Coyle is at 40 while Tice checks in at 48. So if people are looking for a sleeper behind Eley, the smart money is on Coyle. He's a good bet to replicate what Jordan King did with his similar opportunity. newenglandrecruitingreport.com/rankings/new-england-class-of-2022I can certainly buy that Coyle is the best bet from what we have to replicate what Jordan King did but there is nobody that is a good bet for that, walk-ons rarely produce like that right away (or ever).
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Post by diamonddog on Jun 2, 2022 14:53:45 GMT -5
[/quote]I can certainly buy that Coyle is the best bet from what we have to replicate what Jordan King did but there is nobody that is a good bet for that, walk-ons rarely produce like that right away (or ever).[/quote]
Papas, Monmouth, was a walk on correct?
Eley should be good I hope Gridden and Coyle are decent Lane should contribute Mason hopefully is something I think Tekin will be nothing
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jun 2, 2022 15:00:12 GMT -5
Papas, Monmouth, was a walk on correct? Eley should be good I hope Gridden and Coyle are decent Lane should contribute Mason hopefully is something I think Tekin will be nothing Sure, but he averaged 2.8 PPG as a freshman and 2.7 PPG as a sophomore. That's probably realistic upside projections for a walk-on. King averaged 4.7 PPG as a freshman and then 12.2 PG as a sophomore. That isn't something you can expect.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 2, 2022 15:27:56 GMT -5
Papas, Monmouth, was a walk on correct? Eley should be good I hope Gridden and Coyle are decent Lane should contribute Mason hopefully is something I think Tekin will be nothing Sure, but he averaged 2.8 PPG as a freshman and 2.7 PPG as a sophomore. That's probably realistic upside projections for a walk-on. King averaged 4.7 PPG as a freshman and then 12.2 PG as a sophomore. That isn't something you can expect. Papas also played about 9 mpg those first two seasons. Once his playing time went up by double, his production went up by triple in his third season. His output increased even more from there with his playing time. So the ability was likely always there, just not the opportunity. You may not think much of Coyle because he's a walk-on his first year, but he's not the typical walk-on that is not usually a D1 player. I suspect you are focusing too much on his scholarship status and not his resume. Coyle is a legit D1 player. You would not be saying you don't expect much from Amarri Tice had he committed to Siena, as he was a well-known top priority recruit. Well, Coyle is rated higher than Tice. So whatever everyone was expecting from Tice, Coyle should be able to deliver as well - scholarship or not.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 2, 2022 18:08:39 GMT -5
I can certainly buy that Coyle is the best bet from what we have to replicate what Jordan King did but there is nobody that is a good bet for that, walk-ons rarely produce like that right away (or ever).[/quote] Papas, Monmouth, was a walk on correct? Eley should be good I hope Gridden and Coyle are decent Lane should contribute Mason hopefully is something I think Tekin will be nothing [/quote] Papas was going to be a walk-on at George Mason, and Monmouth came in last second with a scholarship offer. I'm not positive if it was for 4 years or a 3-for-1 deal like we're giving out. But either way, it certainly worked out for the Hawks. BTW, he was teammates at Gould Academy with Skyler Nash kid that bought a lot of heat on JP for not being in town when the kid wanted to visit.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jun 2, 2022 18:11:50 GMT -5
I can certainly buy that Coyle is the best bet from what we have to replicate what Jordan King did but there is nobody that is a good bet for that, walk-ons rarely produce like that right away (or ever). Papas, Monmouth, was a walk on correct? Eley should be good I hope Gridden and Coyle are decent Lane should contribute Mason hopefully is something I think Tekin will be nothing [/quote] Papas was going to be a walk-on at George Mason, and Monmouth came in last second with a scholarship offer. I'm not positive if it was for 4 years or a 3-for-1 deal like we're giving out. But either way, it certainly worked out for the Hawks. [/quote] And still averaged less than 3 PPG his first two years. If Coyle can be another Papas then sign me up for that right now but even then we shouldn't be expecting much as a freshman and probably not even as a sophomore.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 2, 2022 18:19:22 GMT -5
I can certainly buy that Coyle is the best bet from what we have to replicate what Jordan King did but there is nobody that is a good bet for that, walk-ons rarely produce like that right away (or ever). Papas, Monmouth, was a walk on correct? Eley should be good I hope Gridden and Coyle are decent Lane should contribute Mason hopefully is something I think Tekin will be nothing Papas was going to be a walk-on at George Mason, and Monmouth came in last second with a scholarship offer. I'm not positive if it was for 4 years or a 3-for-1 deal like we're giving out. But either way, it certainly worked out for the Hawks. [/quote] And still averaged less than 3 PPG his first two years. If Coyle can be another Papas then sign me up for that right now but even then we shouldn't be expecting much as a freshman and probably not even as a sophomore. [/quote] His production matched his opportunity (minutes) every year. I was a big fan of his in HS. Rice waited way too long to give him consistent minutes.
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Post by saints15 on Jun 2, 2022 18:31:05 GMT -5
Has anyone seen both Coyle and Tice play in person? I just watched video on both and 95% of Coyle’s highlights are him just hitting spot up 3 pointers. Whereas Tice’s show him playing D, handling the ball, driving to the basket and hitting jumpers (spot up and off the dribble).
From what I’ve seen I’m not sure I would put to much stock in the ratings that showed Coyle rated higher. To me Coyle looks like a smaller Sloan Seymour, who can only do 1 thing (granted he does it very well) but I’m sure he will at least try to play D and rebound. Would love to hear from anyone that actually has seen them play in person.
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class94
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Post by class94 on Jun 2, 2022 19:27:00 GMT -5
I’m assuming that Coyle will be primarily used as a zone-busting 3-pt shooting specialist off the bench. I assume some games he won’t get any time and other games he could get up to 15m. Some games he won’t score a basket and others he’ll hit double digits. He needs to be a luxury, not someone we rely on for anything.
Eley, on the other hand, needs to be a consistent contributor. No pressure.
The Euro boys are crap shoots. I hope at least one surprises us and can become (maybe not freshman year) a consistent contributor but I’m not holding my breath. Definitely not expecting anything out of them their freshman years. If they produce, it will be a very pleasant surprise.
I seriously doubt this class will have more than 1 consistent contributor next year. Perhaps by year 2 or 3??? That’s just my uneducated opinion.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 2, 2022 21:35:29 GMT -5
Has anyone seen both Coyle and Tice play in person? I just watched video on both and 95% of Coyle’s highlights are him just hitting spot up 3 pointers. Whereas Tice’s show him playing D, handling the ball, driving to the basket and hitting jumpers (spot up and off the dribble). From what I’ve seen I’m not sure I would put to much stock in the ratings that showed Coyle rated higher. To me Coyle looks like a smaller Sloan Seymour, who can only do 1 thing (granted he does it very well) but I’m sure he will at least try to play D and rebound. Would love to hear from anyone that actually has seen them play in person. Try his page the MaxPreps site. There's over 20 videos of him there, and he's doing a lot more than shooting threes in some of them. He's rebounding, getting steals, taking it strong to the rim, defending the paint and the perimeter. Shooting is clearly his greatest strength, which is why it's highlighted the most. But he's shown doing more than just that. www.maxpreps.com/m/athlete/brendan-coyle/mqA9VPewEeqAzqREozo6lw/videos.htm?videoid=1c7f5cef-611e-4731-a654-ea763fa1e444I think it's fair to say that the editorial staff behind NERR has seen both players live more than anyone on this board. The two are only eight spots apart, so it's more likely that they are relatively comparable in talent level. They may not have a similar game, or similar roles on their respective teams. Coyle may not do what Tice does - but both are similarly good at their respective games. Keep in mind that Coyle's season was a hot mess due to his various health issues - which makes his rating even more impressive. He might just be underrated in addition to being under recruited as a result of them. The former UMass staff saw a lot of both - and offered both because they saw what they felt were guys who could play in their league. That's telling to me.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 2, 2022 21:43:33 GMT -5
I’m assuming that Coyle will be primarily used as a zone-busting 3-pt shooting specialist off the bench. I assume some games he won’t get any time and other games he could get up to 15m. Some games he won’t score a basket and others he’ll hit double digits. He needs to be a luxury, not someone we rely on for anything. Eley, on the other hand, needs to be a consistent contributor. No pressure. The Euro boys are crap shoots. I hope at least one surprises us and can become (maybe not freshman year) a consistent contributor but I’m not holding my breath. Definitely not expecting anything out of them their freshman years. If they produce, it will be a very pleasant surprise. I seriously doubt this class will have more than 1 consistent contributor next year. Perhaps by year 2 or 3??? That’s just my uneducated opinion. This large class is nearly half the team (I assume you're including Lane as a member of the incoming class). They'd better have more than one contributor or it's gonna be a long season. This class won't produce any all rookie or all league guys because the minutes won't be there for that. But I'm optimistic Lane, Coyle, and Eley will make the regular playing rotation as role players at a minimum.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jun 2, 2022 23:34:49 GMT -5
I’m assuming that Coyle will be primarily used as a zone-busting 3-pt shooting specialist off the bench. I assume some games he won’t get any time and other games he could get up to 15m. Some games he won’t score a basket and others he’ll hit double digits. He needs to be a luxury, not someone we rely on for anything. Eley, on the other hand, needs to be a consistent contributor. No pressure. The Euro boys are crap shoots. I hope at least one surprises us and can become (maybe not freshman year) a consistent contributor but I’m not holding my breath. Definitely not expecting anything out of them their freshman years. If they produce, it will be a very pleasant surprise. I seriously doubt this class will have more than 1 consistent contributor next year. Perhaps by year 2 or 3??? That’s just my uneducated opinion. This large class is nearly half the team (I assume you're including Lane as a member of the incoming class). They'd better have more than one contributor or it's gonna be a long season. This class won't produce any all rookie or all league guys because the minutes won't be there for that. But I'm optimistic Lane, Coyle, and Eley will make the regular playing rotation as role players at a minimum. Cool, we finally agree!
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 3, 2022 0:44:33 GMT -5
Has anyone seen both Coyle and Tice play in person? I just watched video on both and 95% of Coyle’s highlights are him just hitting spot up 3 pointers. Whereas Tice’s show him playing D, handling the ball, driving to the basket and hitting jumpers (spot up and off the dribble). From what I’ve seen I’m not sure I would put to much stock in the ratings that showed Coyle rated higher. To me Coyle looks like a smaller Sloan Seymour, who can only do 1 thing (granted he does it very well) but I’m sure he will at least try to play D and rebound. Would love to hear from anyone that actually has seen them play in person. Meeeeeee!!! I've been quiet on this. All I'll say is Coyle is here and Tice isnt so there's not much point in debating this now. And I agree with your assertation of the NERR ratings. They dont mean much.
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class94
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Post by class94 on Jun 3, 2022 0:51:52 GMT -5
Has anyone seen both Coyle and Tice play in person? I just watched video on both and 95% of Coyle’s highlights are him just hitting spot up 3 pointers. Whereas Tice’s show him playing D, handling the ball, driving to the basket and hitting jumpers (spot up and off the dribble). From what I’ve seen I’m not sure I would put to much stock in the ratings that showed Coyle rated higher. To me Coyle looks like a smaller Sloan Seymour, who can only do 1 thing (granted he does it very well) but I’m sure he will at least try to play D and rebound. Would love to hear from anyone that actually has seen them play in person. Meeeeeee!!! I've been quiet on this. All I'll say is Coyle is here and Tice isnt so there's not much point in debating this now. And I agree with your assertation of the NERR ratings. They dont mean much. Well then forget about Tice. What’s your projection for Coyle’s role and production at this level?
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 3, 2022 2:58:12 GMT -5
Meeeeeee!!! I've been quiet on this. All I'll say is Coyle is here and Tice isnt so there's not much point in debating this now. And I agree with your assertation of the NERR ratings. They dont mean much. Well then forget about Tice. What’s your projection for Coyle’s role and production at this level? I like Coyle. He's got great size and can really shoot the 3. I think he can help us right away in that aspect. His athleticism scares me. I dont think he has the ceiling Tice does, but he'll get stronger as he gets older and Im hoping can turn into a "good" rebounder. He's a stretch 4 at our level. Dont think he puts it on the floor good enough to be a true SF. I like that he's from Colonie, and has grown up around Siena basketball his while life. Im sure he had other opportunities to "walk on," but he took our 3 year deal. I think he'll contribute enough that Carm wont regret the deal. A poor mans Bisping in his soph year would be a nice goal. Lets hope playing at home in front of family and friends turns him into one of those RARE 4 year players @ Siena.
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