Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Mar 25, 2016 14:32:56 GMT -5
I agree with Gorvy on one thing. It's time to get off the fence. Either you like him as a coach or you don't. After 3 years, is what he has brought to the table more, less or about what you would have expected?
I've always liked JP, back to his days at Loyola. His teams play hard and are fun to watch. Loyola fans would argue that his team was a missed traveling call on Josh Duell from a 2nd trip to the NCAA's. (I know it was a semifinal game but still) He was able to do something no other coach at Loyola was able to do ... make them relevant. (outside of Skip Prosser, who stayed for exactly 1 year)
That said, I did not want Siena to hire Patsos. Not because I didn't think he would be successful but because I didn't think Siena should hire a coach that 1/2 fan base already did not like before he even got here. I wish he would not drop names so much and I don't always agree with his substitutions (more related to leaving players on the court with 2 fouls in the 1st half and 3 fouls early in the 2nd half). I am not a big proponent of recruiting juco and transfer players but get it where it makes sense as long as it's a one off and not the beginning of a trend.
2 20+ win seasons, a CBI title and a team that is relevant in the MAAC again. Seems to me he has been pretty successful. But we are exactly where I expected the Saints to be right now, on an upswing but with a divided fan base.
They are coming off a season where they won 21 games, a 10 win increase over the prior year, where their best player (at the time) missed 16 games. Guys like Bisping, Wright have all developed and improved their games dramatically throughout their careers. They had a difference maker in this class of freshman and 3 other guys that showed promise and have another potential difference maker eligible to play in the fall.
So, if you ask me if I am happy about the direction of the program and this coaching staff's results, I would say a strong Yes. Assuming that no one of great importance leaves or gets injured in the off season, the Saints should be a favorite or co-favorite to win the MAAC next year. They'll be a senior laden, very experienced team in a league where the top 2 teams lose significant pieces.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Mar 25, 2016 14:37:07 GMT -5
Exactly. The Loyola record was mediocre but as it has been well documented nobody wins there. Fran basically had the same record at UNCG/Lehigh. Now it is fair to say JP has been a .500 coach at Siena and as the great Bill Parcells once said "you are what your record says you are" however Siena did about as well as you could have hoped in year one (even before the CBI title) year two was an unmitigated disaster some bad decisions, some bad luck. This past year was very solid. Obviously the ending was a big disappointment we all wanted to win the MAAC tournament and go to the big dance. But anytime you win 21 games, finish 3rd and were basically a top 100 team (with some nice wins) you had a good year especially with everyone coming back. Next year I've already laid out my expectations - NCAA or NIT - meaning either a regular season or tournament championship. Hopefully we can win both we certainly will have the talent to do so. This is the year Jimmy has been pointing to for a while now. while youre talking about the records of each year here at Siena ... let us remember the SOS for each of those years. 163 215 166 and one of those 20 win seasons took nearly 40 games to win the 20. Running totals Overall 52-51 Home 32-18 Away 18-28 Neutral 2-5 Conference 31-29 Funny, you were one of the strongest voices saying how Siena had no returning D1 talent when he took over yet you are taking him to task for not winning enough early in his tenure?
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Post by SaintsFan on Mar 25, 2016 15:37:19 GMT -5
He also brought essentially a starting roster of supposed maac level recruits from a maac school he spent a decade at
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Post by billmurray on Mar 25, 2016 16:54:41 GMT -5
Your record is what it is, but looking behind the numbers as you did on year one with the caveat of 20 wins in 40 game, the caveat you conveniently fail to mention is losing one of the team's MVPs for almost the entire season in year two and having two others out or hobbled for numerous other games. The results would have been much better in year two without the injuries and the overall numbers would be likely be better than they are.
To be fair you can qualify year one without qualifying year two. We agree, however, the work here is not yet done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2016 17:21:53 GMT -5
So So Jimbo, the saga continues.
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OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
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Post by OneIndian on Mar 25, 2016 17:22:52 GMT -5
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skipc
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Post by skipc on Mar 25, 2016 17:27:38 GMT -5
I don't know, I think being on the fence at this point is a cop out. By now, most people can be able to form an opinion. You have 12 years of Maac data to evaluate. Either you like him, or you don't. If you don't mind being around the middle of the pack most years and maybe winning a title once a decade or so, he's your guy. And hey, he's certainly better than Mitch and Rob. Sure, your opinion can change if the circumstances change, but at this point what you see is most likely what you are going to get. Basically a .500 coach--- never really too low, but not dominating either, certainly not one who has shown an ability to move up to the next level. Now those who can't stand criticism will question my fandom, (while openly suggesting some players should leave and some assistants should be fired lol,) but at least I'm not afraid to express my opinion. What's disappointing most to me is that after the season we had and with only one year left to the down cycle the fans couldn't even get up for a post season tourney game. I was there in row a center court, where was everybody else? That speaks to character, and it wasn't a good look for the program as a whole. I didn't go to the CBI game and it had nothing to do with money- it was a conscious decision based on my opinion that this was a terrible idea. BTW, I'm also someone who has supported Siena home and away more than many if not most on this board. This was a mistake and I said it before it was announced- two years ago when Mitch had driven the program into the ground and it was Jimmy's first year, I thought it was a great idea- get some exposure, hopefully get a win or two which would have been great for the fans, players and coaches and have some momentum going into the next season. This year we had a terrific year given our best player missed most of the year and never came back to where we all had hoped by years end. The team wasn't playing its best basketball, Marquis needed recovery time and not more basketball time and we had lost to Iona again in a hard fought game. This was a good time to call it a season and start working towards next year- we had fought hard but we just weren't good enough when it mattered. Playing mediocre to weak programs in a CBI tournament when we had to pay to play- I didn't see any benefit to the players, fans or coaches from participating in this . I a very comfortable with my decision and based on how we played it appears the fans weren't the only ones who decided not to show up- and that is what I expected.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2016 17:36:06 GMT -5
I don't know, I think being on the fence at this point is a cop out. By now, most people can be able to form an opinion. You have 12 years of Maac data to evaluate. Either you like him, or you don't. If you don't mind being around the middle of the pack most years and maybe winning a title once a decade or so, he's your guy. And hey, he's certainly better than Mitch and Rob. Sure, your opinion can change if the circumstances change, but at this point what you see is most likely what you are going to get. Basically a .500 coach--- never really too low, but not dominating either, certainly not one who has shown an ability to move up to the next level. Now those who can't stand criticism will question my fandom, (while openly suggesting some players should leave and some assistants should be fired lol,) but at least I'm not afraid to express my opinion. What's disappointing most to me is that after the season we had and with only one year left to the down cycle the fans couldn't even get up for a post season tourney game. I was there in row a center court, where was everybody else? That speaks to character, and it wasn't a good look for the program as a whole. I didn't go to the CBI game and it had nothing to do with money- it was a conscious decision based on my opinion that this was a terrible idea. BTW, I'm also someone who has supported Siena home and away more than many if not most on this board. This was a mistake and I said it before it was announced- two years ago when Mitch had driven the program into the ground and it was Jimmy's first year, I thought it was a great idea- get some exposure, hopefully get a win or two which would have been great for the fans, players and coaches and have some momentum going into the next season. This year we had a terrific year given our best player missed most of the year and never came back to where we all had hoped by years end. The team wasn't playing its best basketball, Marquis needed recovery time and not more basketball time and we had lost to Iona again in a hard fought game. This was a good time to call it a season and start working towards next year- we had fought hard but we just weren't good enough when it mattered. Playing mediocre to weak programs in a CBI tournament when we had to pay to play- I didn't see any benefit to the players, fans or coaches from participating in this . I a very comfortable with my decision and based on how we played it appears the fans weren't the only ones who decided not to show up- and that is what I expected. Last sentence sums it up for me.
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melva
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Post by melva on Mar 25, 2016 19:38:27 GMT -5
I m afraid of the ghost ( town ) at the TCU. Seriously.
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melva
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Post by melva on Mar 25, 2016 19:39:05 GMT -5
I meant TUC.
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Mar 25, 2016 19:52:58 GMT -5
Some good stuff here, better than I expected. Hopefully the team catches a few breaks next year on and off the court.
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