gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 20, 2016 7:56:53 GMT -5
Again, show me one Maac program that has ever won an ncaa second round game with all of these miracle transfers.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 20, 2016 7:57:56 GMT -5
I haven't read all through this yet, but it appears that total transfers in general have generally been steady the past 12-14 years, dipping then rising a bit. 4 year transfer rates have been rising while 2 year to 4 year transfer rates have lowered, but we're talking no more than a 4% swing either way, so I don't think we can say that transfers are rampant unless I am reading this wrong. www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/tracking-transfer-division-i-men-s-basketball |
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Post by Tony on Mar 20, 2016 9:48:04 GMT -5
interesting
-That said, about 40% of all MBB players who enter Division I directly out of high school depart their initial school by the end of their sophomore year.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Mar 20, 2016 10:18:07 GMT -5
So is that the 5 year plan? To compete for the league championship once every 5 years? Umm, no thanks. If JP does lead the team to win the league next year and he and his staff get very good 4 & 5 players for 2017 then I'll be ready to say he is deserving of several hundred thousand dollars a year. Until then I guess you can say I am an Missourian - show me. Next year and the year after will tell. I have no problem with the wait and see approach, but it is the belief that all is lost after a 20+ win season based on a preexisting bias that I just don't understand. Not sure I understand the "all is lost" & "bias" parts? If intended for me then I think you've missed the point of my posts if a critical nature. What is wrong with expecting the coach to guide the team to wins in the vast majority of should win games? What is wrong with being critical of lazy recruiting? What is wrong with wanting a senior dominated team to be challenged rather than fed a schedule full of cupcakes? What is wrong with being concerned with recruiting for the future? All is definitely not lost but there are valid reasons for concern. Do you disagree? |
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Post by Tony on Mar 20, 2016 10:22:27 GMT -5
Again, show me one Maac program that has ever won an ncaa second round game with all of these miracle transfers. hmm how about Manhattan in what was it 2002-- leading scorer Luis Flores and 3rd leading scorer Peter Mulligan - so 2 of their top 3 players were transfers |
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Mar 20, 2016 10:23:00 GMT -5
So is that the 5 year plan? To compete for the league championship once every 5 years? Umm, no thanks. If JP does lead the team to win the league next year and he and his staff get very good 4 & 5 players for 2017 then I'll be ready to say he is deserving of several hundred thousand dollars a year. Until then I guess you can say I am an Missourian - show me. Next year and the year after will tell. I have no problem with the wait and see approach, but it is the belief that all is lost after a 20+ win season based on a preexisting bias that I just don't understand. +1000. Beautifully said Bill. Bravo ! |
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Mar 20, 2016 10:23:05 GMT -5
So is that the 5 year plan? To compete for the league championship once every 5 years? Umm, no thanks. If JP does lead the team to win the league next year and he and his staff get very good 4 & 5 players for 2017 then I'll be ready to say he is deserving of several hundred thousand dollars a year. Until then I guess you can say I am an Missourian - show me. I never said anything about a contract extension. JP has three years left on his deal. I have no problem with waiting to see how he reloads after the four seniors graduate next year. Siena should COMPETE for the MAAC title every year. I believe we finally did that this past season despite coming up short. I hate to sound like a Patsos apologize but he took over a far worse disaster than Hewitt or McCaffery did. At least Beyer and Lanier had left talent in place. Yes JP got JO and Brett but does he get no credit for developing them into good players? Didn't say you were pushing contract extension. I am referring to JPS 5 year plan. If he took over such a mess why couldn't he sell Siena & PT to more, higher level recruits? Of course he deserves credit for player development. |
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Mar 20, 2016 10:31:05 GMT -5
I have been stating right along, with what the great J Granny touted, Siena with its academics, fan base, venue should never , well almost never be out recruited by regional mid majors. Ok, many here said I am crazy, admit never grew up, but, Siena has to much going for itself not to have a perennial top rated program. Now one of the liabilities is loosing coaches, ok but go out and get the best. IMO the search was over far to quickly after the dismissal of MB. JP nice guy, 500 coach, I agree with some of his decisions bit not all. But who else was in the race. Said before, and got neat up for it, Siena needs to change the methodology, and the committee when choosing a new candidate for coach. In todays world change is inevitable, and candidly change is needed in the continuing development of the program. In the same vein, for those who aren't satisfied with JP, and all here at one time or another have been, we're all fans, lets not blame JP but the group who hired him. Can't blame the man for taking the offer. Agree to an extent. If you look at the history Sienas hiring process is questionable at best. A few of the highers have shown the program can be great, the elements are there. While half or more have flamed out. We need folks making the hiring decisions who know the difference. JP like the PW lied. I know many of you will be aghast at such a comment but just look back at what he said about the Siena program before he got he and how he's changed his tone to lower expectations since arriving. Current responsibility lies with his supervisor. A supervisor needs to set the expectations, provide the necessary support and hold the talent accountable. |
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Post by billmurray on Mar 20, 2016 10:34:59 GMT -5
Next year and the year after will tell. I have no problem with the wait and see approach, but it is the belief that all is lost after a 20+ win season based on a preexisting bias that I just don't understand. Not sure I understand the "all is lost" & "bias" parts? If intended for me then I think you've missed the point of my posts if a critical nature. What is wrong with expecting the coach to guide the team to wins in the vast majority of should win games? What is wrong with being critical of lazy recruiting? What is wrong with wanting a senior dominated team to be challenged rather than fed a schedule full of cupcakes? What is wrong with being concerned with recruiting for the future? All is definitely not lost but there are valid reasons for concern. Do you disagree? Nothing is wrong with what you say. My comments were not directed toward your points. Some others here just don't like Patsos and no matter if he achieved all your goals they would not be satisfied. They don't like his demeanor, his optics, his tone, his comportment, et.al.. You name it and some will complain about it no matter the wins or losses, the recruiting, the schedule. It is just personal. |
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Mar 20, 2016 10:48:13 GMT -5
Next year and the year after will tell. I have no problem with the wait and see approach, but it is the belief that all is lost after a 20+ win season based on a preexisting bias that I just don't understand. +1000. Beautifully said Bill. Bravo ! Why I'm a sceptic when it comes to Patsos is that you already have a pretty good sampling of data. He's been in the MAAC 12 years, he's a 500 coach lifetime, at Loyola and at Siena. He's never won the MAAC regular season, he's only won one conference tournament. Sure next season should bump him above 500 (if it doesn't he / we have major issues). I'm also concerned with the loss of Wright Long JO and Brett the following year that he's right back to 500 or less. That's how a 500 coach stays that way. I've seen nothing recruiting wise (current roster) other than Nico that gives me the warm and fuzzies that he'll be replacing them with impact guys. I guess time will tell. Hope I get proven wrong. |
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Post by MTS on Mar 20, 2016 10:56:58 GMT -5
I have been stating right along, with what the great J Granny touted, Siena with its academics, fan base, venue should never , well almost never be out recruited by regional mid majors. Ok, many here said I am crazy, admit never grew up, but, Siena has to much going for itself not to have a perennial top rated program. Now one of the liabilities is loosing coaches, ok but go out and get the best. IMO the search was over far to quickly after the dismissal of MB. JP nice guy, 500 coach, I agree with some of his decisions bit not all. But who else was in the race. Said before, and got neat up for it, Siena needs to change the methodology, and the committee when choosing a new candidate for coach. In todays world change is inevitable, and candidly change is needed in the continuing development of the program. In the same vein, for those who aren't satisfied with JP, and all here at one time or another have been, we're all fans, lets not blame JP but the group who hired him. Can't blame the man for taking the offer. Agree to an extent. If you look at the history Sienas hiring process is questionable at best. A few of the highers have shown the program can be great, the elements are there. While half or more have flamed out. We need folks making the hiring decisions who know the difference. JP like the PW lied. I know many of you will be aghast at such a comment but just look back at what he said about the Siena program before he got he and how he's changed his tone to lower expectations since arriving. Current responsibility lies with his supervisor. A supervisor needs to set the expectations, provide the necessary support and hold the talent accountable. The Siena schedule being loaded with cupcakes next year is a MYTH - do I wish we got a neutral site tournament against some high-majors? Absolutely. But if people looked at the actual schedule it is not even close to be loaded up with cupcakes. -Kansas (Enough said) -GW (always competitive in the A10) -UNC Ashville (NCAA team, returns top 4 scorers) -Florida Gulf Coast (NCAA team, returns top 3 scorers) -UAlbany (rivals, 5 straight year in postseason) -St. Bona (NIT team) -Hofstra (NIT team) -Vermont (CBI team most players back - we need to finally beat them!) -Bucknell (NIT team strong in the Patriot league) OK two "cupcakes" Cornell (who we've lost two the last two years) and Arkansas Pine-Bluff. Not that bad. FYI - Siena, not Monmouth not Iona had the highest non-conference SOS in the MAAC this year. |
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Mar 20, 2016 12:05:15 GMT -5
You're right cupcakes is too harsh. But you could see next year coming for a while now so plenty of time to put together a great resume schedule. Say what you will about the strengths of most of those teams but in reality there is very little there to excite recruits and fans or impress the selection comittee.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 12:09:35 GMT -5
You're right cupcakes is too harsh. But you could see next year coming for a while now so plenty of time to put together a great resume schedule. Say what you will about the strengths of most of those teams but in reality there is very little there to excite recruits and fans or impress the selection comittee. Monmouth proved you can't impress the selection committee. It's win the MAAC tournament or settle for anything but the NCAA. |
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Post by Tony on Mar 20, 2016 12:15:31 GMT -5
You're right cupcakes is too harsh. But you could see next year coming for a while now so plenty of time to put together a great resume schedule. Say what you will about the strengths of most of those teams but in reality there is very little there to excite recruits and fans or impress the selection comittee. Monmouth proved you can't impress the selection committee. It's win the MAAC tournament or settle for anything but the NCAA. 2 things 1) strength of schedule and final RPI is vitally important for seeding purposes 2) some years the selection committee is more favorable than other to mids- this year was not good year for mids- in typical NCAA fashion they will more than likely over react and be more favorable next year to mids |
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Mar 20, 2016 12:19:12 GMT -5
You're right cupcakes is too harsh. But you could see next year coming for a while now so plenty of time to put together a great resume schedule. Say what you will about the strengths of most of those teams but in reality there is very little there to excite recruits and fans or impress the selection comittee. Monmouth proved you can't impress the selection committee. It's win the MAAC tournament or settle for anything but the NCAA. Monmouth losing to CC, Manhattan and Army kept them out of the tournament. If they win one of those they were in. If anyone thinks Siena played a tougher schedule than Monmouth based on some formula, that formula has some serious flaws. |
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