CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Feb 4, 2014 16:32:30 GMT -5
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attackThe presidents administration was deceptive, they lied, downplayed terrorism because of the impending election. Al Qaeda loyalists were involved as were other terrorists groups. No doubt it was "terrorism" but that's a word the president doesn't like, especially before an election. If the main stream media was honest this fool would not be in office for a second term.
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th24
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Post by th24 on Feb 4, 2014 16:59:04 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 17:05:16 GMT -5
Excellent article and not at odds with any of my beliefs or recollections of the events and the political reactions at that time. Thanks. Your welcome, did you read the 85 pg report, is that consistent with your views as well? And please indentify yourself like everyone else has. Are you a lib? Be proud own it. Are you a coward? I know so. You are like that sneaky bastard Piers Morgan. You probably think that's a compliment. Or like wasserman Shultz. Another lib you probably adore. As I said in many earlier posts, I am a registered Republican but have not voted that way in years. I am conservative when it comes to defense (40+ years serving our Nuclear Navy), a moderate when it comes to some issues and liberal when we are talking about issues related to the poor. I'm against abortion but support a women's right to choose, support equal rights for ALL, have no fear of same sex relationships or their marriage as any kind of threat to mine or marriage itself. I support the second amendment but for personal reasons which you don't need to know, do not own a gun (I have qualified as a marksman so I do know weapons and how to use them). Have no problem with others owning guns for personal protection but draw the line at semi-automatic or assault rifles - that type of weapon would not have been seen by our forefathers as being given 2nd amendment protection (back then, weapons were used primarily to hunt for food on the table, secondarily they were held for protection against the British military should that need arise). I worked for Nixon's first and second reelection and then soured on politics in general for obvious reasons. I was never in a union and actually resisted two separate attempts by some to unionize professionals where I worked, always feeling I could do better on my own than having to rely on raises and promotions obtained by union negotiations, etc. Now you say I am a coward. Why not back that up with specifics. I won't generalize on you - I don't need to share my views of you, I know others have come to the same conclusions just reading your posts and reacting to your tone.
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Post by psycholojets on Feb 4, 2014 17:31:18 GMT -5
The while tone of this thread is negative and confrontational. It is possible basement dweller that you bring that defensiveness out in others because of your attitude. You ask people to open up and then attack them for what they say. Get your head out of the basement.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 17:47:20 GMT -5
To further clarify my belief system - I am strong on defense but vehemently opposed the invasion of Iraq - that was a personal war with contrived, trumped up, and totally false arguments put forth to support it. The invasion of Afghanistan was supported by me initially but when we tried to go beyond punishing the planners of 911 my support disappeared. We are not nation builders and nation building by anyone in that region is a fool hardy adventure. Getting disentangled from Iraq and Afghanistan is the smart thing to do. How many thousands of American lives have been shattered to even the score for less that 4000 lives lost on 911. The math doesn't add up and our casualties to settle the score only gives encouragement to those that do not value any human life. We hear today about accountability - let's pillory Hillary for Benghazi is the cry of the Right. I say let's send Karl Rove to prison with the other lying snakes (Rumsfield, Cheney, etc.) that sent us into unwinnable and never ending war. The only thing we are accomplishing is the creation of generations of jihadists that hate America based solely on our invasion of their countries. Insanity, which coincidentally rhymes with Hannity.
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th24
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Post by th24 on Feb 4, 2014 18:02:51 GMT -5
This is my thoughts on the last statement! Attachments:
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 4, 2014 20:27:31 GMT -5
To further clarify my belief system - I am strong on defense but vehemently opposed the invasion of Iraq - that was a personal war with contrived, trumped up, and totally false arguments put forth to support it. The invasion of Afghanistan was supported by me initially but when we tried to go beyond punishing the planners of 911 my support disappeared. We are not nation builders and nation building by anyone in that region is a fool hardy adventure. Getting disentangled from Iraq and Afghanistan is the smart thing to do. How many thousands of American lives have been shattered to even the score for less that 4000 lives lost on 911. The math doesn't add up and our casualties to settle the score only gives encouragement to those that do not value any human life. We hear today about accountability - let's pillory Hillary for Benghazi is the cry of the Right. I say let's send Karl Rove to prison with the other lying snakes (Rumsfield, Cheney, etc.) that sent us into unwinnable and never ending war. The only thing we are accomplishing is the creation of generations of jihadists that hate America based solely on our invasion of their countries. Insanity, which coincidentally rhymes with Hannity. Wow - simply - Wow! What an overly simplified biased view of events. For the record I know we all have our biases but some folks go beyond just normal inclinations and are part of the far left or right fringe....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 20:35:49 GMT -5
To further clarify my belief system - I am strong on defense but vehemently opposed the invasion of Iraq - that was a personal war with contrived, trumped up, and totally false arguments put forth to support it. The invasion of Afghanistan was supported by me initially but when we tried to go beyond punishing the planners of 911 my support disappeared. We are not nation builders and nation building by anyone in that region is a fool hardy adventure. Getting disentangled from Iraq and Afghanistan is the smart thing to do. How many thousands of American lives have been shattered to even the score for less that 4000 lives lost on 911. The math doesn't add up and our casualties to settle the score only gives encouragement to those that do not value any human life. We hear today about accountability - let's pillory Hillary for Benghazi is the cry of the Right. I say let's send Karl Rove to prison with the other lying snakes (Rumsfield, Cheney, etc.) that sent us into unwinnable and never ending war. The only thing we are accomplishing is the creation of generations of jihadists that hate America based solely on our invasion of their countries. Insanity, which coincidentally rhymes with Hannity. Wow - simply - Wow! What an overly simplified biased view of events. For the record I know we all have our biases but some folks go beyond just normal inclinations and are part of the far left or right fringe.... Ok - you made your accusation - now make your points! I'll admit a bias - total disagreement with Bush's policies. Read what Tom Friedman said about what would happen if we went into Iraq - he nailed it perfectly.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Feb 4, 2014 20:50:56 GMT -5
I was also against the Iraq invasion.
But if I recall correctly it got bipartisan support that included senator Hillary Clinton. Incidentally, Hillary did her own intel research with the help of bubba and friends and came to the same conclusions as the bush administration. Ally intel agencies also came to the same conclusions. Facts are so inconvenient.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 4, 2014 20:52:07 GMT -5
I made observations.
My points as they relate to the thread are that it is better to let the people handle their issues at the local and state level than it is nationally. Obviously, military and a few select others are needed at the national level but VERY few. Further, liberalism/progressivism or what ever you want to call it is a huge lie. You still end up with the powerful elite and everyone else equal ok - but they are all equal without hope of real improvement.
My point related to your post is that to destroy but refuse to rebuild is a simple plan that is bound to come back to haunt the conqueror. History is littered with examples that make my point.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 4, 2014 20:55:35 GMT -5
I was also against the Iraq invasion. But if I recall correctly it got bipartisan support that included senator Hillary Clinton. Incidentally, Hillary did her own intel research with the help of bubba and friends and came to the same conclusions as the bush administration and other intel agencies from our allies. Facts are so inconvenient. The other thing is, which liberals conveniently forget is that the Clinton administration put even bigger walls between the FBI, CIA etc. which hindered each of them in the broader goal keeping the country safe. Further, they pulled tons of human assets out of the field and for all intents and purposes folded up the American tent and left many countries where our enemies grow and plot against us. Yet is is Bush's fault that we didn't have great intel on Iraq. Other than the fact that he was putting up the money for suicide bombers in Israel.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 21:08:26 GMT -5
I'd love to say pompous conservative rhetoric but will pass on that golden opportunity. Iraq clearly was a world power with a finger on the nuclear trigger and an armed force that we would be hard pressed to stop - NOT. Think of it another way, if they laid waste to their Iranian neighbors we'd have one less country to worry about. If they dared attack Israel, we'd have several less enemies to worry about! Should we feel proud that thousands of American lives were lost because Hussein was believed to be funding suicide bombers in Israel? Yikes!
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Feb 4, 2014 21:24:00 GMT -5
I'd love to say pompous conservative rhetoric but will pass on that golden opportunity. Iraq clearly was a world power with a finger on the nuclear trigger and an armed force that we would be hard pressed to stop - NOT. Think of it another way, if they laid waste to their Iranian neighbors we'd have one less country to worry about. If they dared attack Israel, we'd have several less enemies to worry about! Should we feel proud that thousands of American lives were lost because Hussein was believed to be funding suicide bombers in Israel? Yikes! So I take it you won't vote for Hillary for President in 2016 because of her support for the Iraq war?
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 4, 2014 21:41:25 GMT -5
I'd love to say pompous conservative rhetoric but will pass on that golden opportunity. Iraq clearly was a world power with a finger on the nuclear trigger and an armed force that we would be hard pressed to stop - NOT. Think of it another way, if they laid waste to their Iranian neighbors we'd have one less country to worry about. If they dared attack Israel, we'd have several less enemies to worry about! Should we feel proud that thousands of American lives were lost because Hussein was believed to be funding suicide bombers in Israel? Yikes! My god man how much have you had to drink tonight...
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th24
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Post by th24 on Feb 5, 2014 8:59:06 GMT -5
LOL
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