Liberals and conservatives

[CellarRat]

I've noticed over the years that liberals are insulted when they are called liberals and conservatives just say, "yes, can I help you". Gillibrand is pushing another tax. It never stops- we will all become defacto government workers, with the government confiscating most of our income to give it to others leaving us with what they think we deserve. How long can a society like that last, not to mention how immoral most liberal philosophy and politics are.

God bless

[SIENA1971]

If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.
Francis of Assisi

[CellarRat]

Jan 11, 2014 8:58:15 GMT -5 SIENA1971 said:

If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.
Francis of Assisi

I agree, but government is not people. If that is your point. We don't live in a theocracy that is even worse than living in a communistic or socialistic country. But these godless socialists we have in office now use Jesus as justification for thier policies. Incredible.

In short, charity and that is what it is- not entitlement, comes voluntarily from people; it is not confiscated by government and then distributed as it deems proper. The kings/government are not exactly the good guys in the bible, but it is comical how libs use the bible and religious text to support godless policies.

[SaintsFan]

Jan 11, 2014 8:49:32 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

I've noticed over the years that liberals are insulted when they are called liberals and conservatives just say, "yes, can I help you". Gillibrand is pushing another tax. It never stops- we will all become defacto government workers, with the government confiscating most of our income to give it too others leaving us with what they think we deserve. How long can a society like that last, not to mention how immoral most liberal philosophy and politics are.

God bless

Conversely, how long can a society last that has its entire economic system designed to funnel money to a select few?

I think some people are so far removed from being poor/less fortunate that they have no clue what it takes to survive on low income. That gap growth is accelerating. I don't know what the fix is but the wealth gap is well on its way to destroying the "American dream" and this country. Sooner or later enough people will be "have nots" and the gated communities won't be enough protection.

[CellarRat]

Jan 11, 2014 9:07:30 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

Jan 11, 2014 8:49:32 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

I've noticed over the years that liberals are insulted when they are called liberals and conservatives just say, "yes, can I help you". Gillibrand is pushing another tax. It never stops- we will all become defacto government workers, with the government confiscating most of our income to give it too others leaving us with what they think we deserve. How long can a society like that last, not to mention how immoral most liberal philosophy and politics are.

God bless

Conversely, how long can a society last that has its entire economic system designed to funnel money to a select few?

I think some people are so far removed from being poor/less fortunate that they have no clue what it takes to survive on low income. That gap growth is accelerating. I don't know what the fix is but the wealth gap is well on its way to destroying the "American dream" and this country. Sooner or later enough people will be "have nots" and the gated communities won't be enough protection.

Poor are poor for a reason for the most part. I grew up in a poor family where my parents worked hard and succeeded. They had a good work ethic and a good moral compass. They were married, both worked more than 40 hours a week, stayed home at night and weekends. Go figure! I don't want to pay for folks that create their own problems and spend more than they can afford. The poor you speak of buy alcohol, cigarettes, fast food, drugs, not to mention processed food to make life easier. They also spend money buying lotto tickets and alike. They must be real hungry when they are buying those tickets. We have a middle class now that is subsidized! It is a joke.

[CellarRat]

You also have a subsidized middle class that think thier kids should go to college for free and we should pay for a trip to Disneyland every year, while complaining that they can't afford health care. So am I paying for the trip to Disney every year or health insurance. Not to mention the houses and cars folks buy. Live within your means. Everyone wants a middle class life but no one wants to work for it. Again, how long can that last?

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2014 9:45:14 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

You also have a subsidized middle class that think thier kids should go to college for free and we should pay for a trip to Disneyland every year, while complaining that they can't afford health care. So am I paying for the trip to Disney every year or health insurance. Not to mention the houses and cars folks buy. Live within your means. Everyone wants a middle class life but no one wants to work for it. Again, how long can that last?

You seem to be casting the sins of a few over the entire population of the poor. There are abusers of the system at all levels from those on welfare to the Bernie Madoffs on Wall Street. There is no perfect solution but that does not mean we can just abandon all because a few are living the way they do because they want to. Conservatives always seem to view other lives through their own and say I did it so everyone else can. The poor are poor because they choose to be. It's not that simple. The gap that is widening with no end in sight could lead to a social upheaval - read that revolution - that brings down our entire society. It wouldn't be the first time that happened in history. Instead of decrying all social programs as being wrong let's accept a need for social programs and fix what is wrong with them. The Republican party, as stated by their Senate leader Mitch McConnell, has dedicated themselves over the past 5 years to do everything they can to make Obama fail, the rest of us be damned. They do it only to enhance their chances of regaining total power, not making a better, stronger country. They have become even more conservative with the onset of the Tea Party whackos. Their philosophy - don't take any money from me, keep me rich, the rest can go to hell.

[CellarRat]

Jan 11, 2014 10:00:28 GMT -5 @misspractice said:

Jan 11, 2014 9:45:14 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

You also have a subsidized middle class that think thier kids should go to college for free and we should pay for a trip to Disneyland every year, while complaining that they can't afford health care. So am I paying for the trip to Disney every year or health insurance. Not to mention the houses and cars folks buy. Live within your means. Everyone wants a middle class life but no one wants to work for it. Again, how long can that last?

You seem to be casting the sins of a few over the entire population of the poor. There are abusers of the system at all levels from those on welfare to the Bernie Madoffs on Wall Street. There is no perfect solution but that does not mean we can just abandon all because a few are living the way they do because they want to. Conservatives always seem to view other lives through their own and say I did it so everyone else can. The poor are poor because they choose to be. It's not that simple. The gap that is widening with no end in sight could lead to a social upheaval - read that revolution - that brings down our entire society. It wouldn't be the first time that happened in history. Instead of decrying all social programs as being wrong let's accept a need for social programs and fix what is wrong with them. The Republican party, as stated by their Senate leader Mitch McConnell, has dedicated themselves over the past 5 years to do everything they can to make Obama fail, the rest of us be damned. They do it only to enhance their chances of regaining total power, not making a better, stronger country. They have become even more conservative with the onset of the Tea Party whackos. Their philosophy - don't take any money from me, keep me rich, the rest can go to hell.

This is comical nonsense. Go to Europe and check out thier social mobility. Rich stay rich and poor stay poor. Clueless.

The gap is getting wider because there is less and less incentive to work. Your philosophy is wrong and not factual. Forget about republicans and democrats- republicans are liberal spenders and taxers as well.

The tea party folks are the real Americans. Fiscal conservative/libertarians- what is wrong with that.

[SaintsFan]

Jan 11, 2014 9:34:48 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

Jan 11, 2014 9:07:30 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

Conversely, how long can a society last that has its entire economic system designed to funnel money to a select few?

I think some people are so far removed from being poor/less fortunate that they have no clue what it takes to survive on low income. That gap growth is accelerating. I don't know what the fix is but the wealth gap is well on its way to destroying the "American dream" and this country. Sooner or later enough people will be "have nots" and the gated communities won't be enough protection.

Poor are poor for a reason for the most part. I grew up in a poor family where my parents worked hard and succeeded. They had a good work ethic and a good moral compass. They were married, both worked more than 40 hours a week, stayed home at night and weekends. Go figure! I don't want to pay for folks that create their own problems and spend more than they can afford. The poor you speak of buy alcohol, cigarettes, fast food, drugs, not to mention processed food to make life easier. They also spend money buying lotto tickets and alike. They must be real hungry when they are buying those tickets. We have a middle class now that is subsidized! It is a joke.

It continues to amaze me that people only find fault with the individuals and not the system. And by system I don't mean the usual argument of those "lazy do-nothings"... I mean a system that does indeed provide plenty of glass ceilings despite work ethic

[nolesaint]

The biggeest lie of liberalism is that opportunity still exists. Those who have significant means already are protected for all the new and higher taxes while those who try to improve their lot are taxed back into the pack. Liberals in general give less to charity than conservatives; not for profit charities go away or downsize as needs subside - you can probably count in one hand the number of government programs that have gone away or been significantly reduced. Liberals want the select few of government to run things rather than the select few who have made their way to the top via the merit system. These are the facts...

[MTS]

Private charity vs government involvement ... People should help their fellow man out but should the government take a ridiculous percentage of money and force business, for example to downsize which in turn hurt the middle class. No way.

The middle class always gets screwed. I also don't think the democratic party is implementing these economic things altruistically. They know the more they can force people into their programs the more votes they can count on.

This isn't a cut and dry thing..you can be compassionate but want a government who does not piss money away.

Two quotes from John F. Kennedy to illustrate this point.

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." - John F. Kennedy (The PEOPLE not government)

''You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable.'' (Forcing it on people through government)

[SaintsFan]

Another big lie. All rich people earned it.

[CellarRat]

Jan 11, 2014 12:16:52 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

Another big lie. All rich people earned it.

Typical liberal hogwash. Conservatives want a government that is similar to a referee; libs want a government that is paternalistic. You mention welfare state to libs, they mention some corrupt wallstreeter. I am not defending criminals and most if not all conservatives would not.

Some libs most socialists, want higher estate taxes and dont think you should be able to leave YOUR money to YOUR children - they want it for THIER children - it really is comical. Then the people that did not have any degree of real success determine how much money is enough - again comical.

When I grew up as a kid my father always told us to admire people that were successful and told us to work hard if we wanted a better life. And if we wanted more - work harder. Ask employers who are hiring now, they can not find good help despite the high unemployment rates (don't let those current numbers fool you). The reality is most of us, including myself, would rather stay home and watch basketball then go to work every day.

Like a famous economist said it is okay to have a safety net, it is another to have a hammock.

If libs are so smart why dont they start businesses and give away thier money - no answer needed of course. We all know those are the folks that didn't build anything and therefore feel very comfortable giving away other peoples' money.

[SaintsFan]

Jan 11, 2014 14:35:51 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

Jan 11, 2014 12:16:52 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

Another big lie. All rich people earned it.

Typical liberal hogwash. Conservatives want a government that is similar to a referee; libs want a government that is paternalistic. You mention welfare state to libs, they mention some corrupt wallstreeter. I am not defending criminals and most if not all conservatives would not.

Some libs most socialists, want higher estate taxes and dont think you should be able to leave YOUR money to YOUR children - they want it for THIER children - it really is comical. Then the people that did not have any degree of real success determine how much money is enough - again comical.

When I grew up as a kid my father always told us to admire people that were successful and told us to work hard if we wanted a better life. And if we wanted more - work harder. Ask employers who are hiring now, they can not find good help despite the high unemployment rates (don't let those current numbers fool you). The reality is most of us, including myself, would rather stay home and watch basketball then go to work every day.

Like a famous economist said it is okay to have a safety net, it is another to have a hammock.

If libs are so smart why dont they start businesses and give away thier money - no answer needed of course. We all know those are the folks that didn't build anything and therefore feel very comfortable giving away other peoples' money.

First. .. I think we do spend too much on social programs but I also believe the system has really striped away a lot of the ability to create the American dream.

Second. .. I'm neither liberal nor conservative and proud of being neither. Both sides have no problems taking other people's money. Some liberals feel they deserve a handout. Some conservatives convince themselves that they worked so much harder than someone else for what they have. Especially those inheriting wealth.

Our society is pretty frigging warped in who should make what money.

[SaintsFan]

Jan 11, 2014 14:35:51 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

Jan 11, 2014 12:16:52 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

Another big lie. All rich people earned it.

Typical liberal hogwash. Conservatives want a government that is similar to a referee; libs want a government that is paternalistic. You mention welfare state to libs, they mention some corrupt wallstreeter. I am not defending criminals and most if not all conservatives would not.

Uhhhh actually the wealthy and corporate world want the equivalent of home court officiating