CellarRat
Assistant Coach
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Post by CellarRat on Sept 5, 2013 11:21:05 GMT -5
You don't play one of your best/most experienced players only 10-15 mins a game as a backup just because you're scared he might get hurt. If Hymes does get hurt or doesn't heal and misses a lot of time, then you just play Poole there for 5-7 mins a game in 2-3 min increments. Not a big deal. Ubiles did it for Moore. Hymes will play backup PG AND he'll play SG. He'll be out there 25+ every night and he'll be putting up points...probably more efficiently than he has in his first 2 years because of the fact that teams can't just throw three guys in the lane against us anymore because they know we're feeding OD. Hymes had an overall FG% of over 40% for much of his frosh year until he wore down from playing the full 40 mins in 15 games and 37-39 mins in most of the others. He shot 50% overall in Montreal. There's a pretty good chance he's our leading scorer this year. We'll have height at the 2G for the 20-25 mins he's not playing there and when he's in we'll be very tough to press and we'll have good shooting range. I hope you're right. We'll see... so far his injury/breakdown track is not so good. You attribute it to minutes, I think it's a size/durability issue. His cramping issues having nothing to do with his size. Take that out of the equation and you have a pretty durable player. This is not football. Tony made a great argument about his durability and I agree.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 11:39:45 GMT -5
Hymes averaged 35.3 mins a game as an underclassman (37 as a frosh). He missed just 1 game in 2 years. Sure he ran into the stanchion against CC as a frosh but he still played the next game...37 mins and had 10 assists in the big Manhattan OT game. Size or not, he's an iron man.
Last year, he could get a breather with Brookins and Lepp around. But as a frosh, he was basically told to play all 40 mins and if you get hurt the team's entire season is over. He also couldn't be aggressive on defense cause he couldn't foul out or expend too much energy. He may be only 5-8 but he has basically had the weight of the world on him for 2 years.
People still get on this kid. He could go over 1,000 career points mid-way thru this junior year. He's a frickin' hero. Treat him as such. Play him just 15 mins a game? That's an insult to this kid with the heart he's displayed. If someone beats him out for time, then fine. But you go with Hymes and see if he can't repeat that frosh year magic or even improve on it in a system that helps him succeed rather than puts more pressure on him.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Sept 5, 2013 15:00:14 GMT -5
I agree with KK....Hymes may not be a pure pg like Wright but he has earned the right for someone to take his spot not because of his size but because they are a better option...he has played bigger than he is for the past two years....I was skeptical at first but watching him practice its easy to see that he is the most aggressive offensive player on the team
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Post by playerparentcoach on Sept 5, 2013 15:12:57 GMT -5
Lavon will play the 4 if that's what the team needs but he is not a face up 4 as that title means he cant handle the ball...and we all know that is not accurate....once again he will sacrifice his game for the sake of the team without hesitation and that would be due to his size and strength not lack of skill...he would have to go to a BCS school to do anything else it seems That is not what the term face-up power forward means. It has no bearing on ball-handling ability. A Power Forward who scores the majority of their points off Jumpshots and Drives to the Hoop, rather than Posting Up with their Back to the Basket, is often referred to as a Face-Up Power Forward. I think the term suits Lavon to a tee. Plenty of such players can handle the ball, hence the origin of the term point forward. ok then what is the difference between a face up 4 and a Pt forward? if not ballhandling.....I thought a faceup 4 was a good shooter that can make straight line drives but is not a playmaker...more of a finisher than a facilitator
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Sept 5, 2013 15:47:54 GMT -5
That is not what the term face-up power forward means. It has no bearing on ball-handling ability. A Power Forward who scores the majority of their points off Jumpshots and Drives to the Hoop, rather than Posting Up with their Back to the Basket, is often referred to as a Face-Up Power Forward. I think the term suits Lavon to a tee. Plenty of such players can handle the ball, hence the origin of the term point forward. ok then what is the difference between a face up 4 and a Pt forward? if not ballhandling.....I thought a faceup 4 was a good shooter that can make straight line drives but is not a playmaker...more of a finisher than a facilitator The two terms are not mutually exclusive. They refer to two different skill sets, but a player can be both, or can be one without being the other. The term face-up forward refers to how a particular forward tends to score on offense as I previously explained. A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the ball handling skills and court vision to bring the ball up the court and to initiate the team's offense as well as a point guard can. Edwin Ubiles and Prosper Karangawa, both 6'7, are the last two Siena players I can recall whose games fit both terms. If we continue to see Poole running the point as a third option behind Hymes, we'll be adding Poole to that list.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Sept 5, 2013 16:21:30 GMT -5
ok then what is the difference between a face up 4 and a Pt forward? if not ballhandling.....I thought a faceup 4 was a good shooter that can make straight line drives but is not a playmaker...more of a finisher than a facilitator The two terms are not mutually exclusive. They refer to two different skill sets, but a player can be both, or can be one without being the other. The term face-up forward refers to how a particular forward tends to score on offense as I previously explained. A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the ball handling skills and court vision to bring the ball up the court and to initiate the team's offense as well as a point guard can. Edwin Ubiles and Prosper Karangawa, both 6'7, are the last two Siena players I can recall whose games fit both terms. If we continue to see Poole running the point as a third option behind Hymes, we'll be adding Poole to that list. Now we are on the same page....Lavon demonstrated that he can do both. Patsos believes he is both and Lavon has proven him right in practice and in Montreal... That's why I said Lavon is not a face up 4...he handles the ball and makes plays like a pg....he grabs rebounds and.leads the break...Lavon will not be called a pg but will be allowed to show those skills playing for Patsos and you will be surprised at how good he is at it... .
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Post by jamalblack on Sept 5, 2013 16:30:43 GMT -5
Can somebody else talk about the long besides his mother
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Post by playerparentcoach on Sept 5, 2013 16:38:15 GMT -5
Can somebody else talk about the long besides his mother let me guess you want someone to talk about your son instead...come on get on board sir all of the players are talked about on this board
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Post by jamalblack on Sept 5, 2013 16:59:28 GMT -5
No
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bigsaintg
Associate Head Coach
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Post by bigsaintg on Sept 5, 2013 17:13:23 GMT -5
Jamal just got scolded by the Board Mommy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 17:19:04 GMT -5
Can somebody else talk about the long besides his mother None of us are that "long" winded!!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 17:20:17 GMT -5
ok then what is the difference between a face up 4 and a Pt forward? if not ballhandling.....I thought a faceup 4 was a good shooter that can make straight line drives but is not a playmaker...more of a finisher than a facilitator The two terms are not mutually exclusive. They refer to two different skill sets, but a player can be both, or can be one without being the other. The term face-up forward refers to how a particular forward tends to score on offense as I previously explained. A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the ball handling skills and court vision to bring the ball up the court and to initiate the team's offense as well as a point guard can. Edwin Ubiles and Prosper Karangawa, both 6'7, are the last two Siena players I can recall whose games fit both terms. If we continue to see Poole running the point as a third option behind Hymes, we'll be adding Poole to that list. Prosper Karangwa was never, in any way, a forward.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Sept 5, 2013 17:30:55 GMT -5
The two terms are not mutually exclusive. They refer to two different skill sets, but a player can be both, or can be one without being the other. The term face-up forward refers to how a particular forward tends to score on offense as I previously explained. A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the ball handling skills and court vision to bring the ball up the court and to initiate the team's offense as well as a point guard can. Edwin Ubiles and Prosper Karangawa, both 6'7, are the last two Siena players I can recall whose games fit both terms. If we continue to see Poole running the point as a third option behind Hymes, we'll be adding Poole to that list. Now we are on the same page....Lavon demonstrated that he can do both. Patsos believes he is both and Lavon has proven him right in practice and in Montreal... That's why I said Lavon is not a face up 4...he handles the ball and makes plays like a pg....he grabs rebounds and.leads the break...Lavon will not be called a pg but will be allowed to show those skills playing for Patsos and you will be surprised at how good he is at it... . Lavon is a face-up forward, whether he's playing at the 3 or 4. He scores on jumpshots and drives to the hoop. He does not play with his back to the basket inside. That is the definition. The presence of the ball handling ability does not negate those facts about how he scores and make him something else. A forward is either a face-up type or a back to the basket post-up type. A point forward doesn't earn the title merely by occasionally leading the break after a missed shot or turnover - many players can lead a fast break. A point forward brings the ball up on multiple possessions during a game and gets the team into its offense - even after made shots by the opponent. They play the role of forward and point guard. Now if you say Lavon can do that, great. Looking forward to seeing it. But he has not played that role for Siena as yet. When Patsos needed a third string PG behind Wright and Hymes to bring the ball up the court and get the team into its offense in Canada, he went with Poole, not Long.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Sept 5, 2013 17:34:16 GMT -5
Uh oh ... Here we go again! Only 4 more yrs before this topic dies!
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Post by playerparentcoach on Sept 5, 2013 17:40:47 GMT -5
Now we are on the same page....Lavon demonstrated that he can do both. Patsos believes he is both and Lavon has proven him right in practice and in Montreal... That's why I said Lavon is not a face up 4...he handles the ball and makes plays like a pg....he grabs rebounds and.leads the break...Lavon will not be called a pg but will be allowed to show those skills playing for Patsos and you will be surprised at how good he is at it... . Lavon is a face-up forward, whether he's playing at the 3 or 4. He scores on jumpshots and drives to the hoop. He does not play with his back to the basket inside. That is the definition. The presence of the ball handling ability does not negate those facts about how he scores and make him something else. A forward is either a face-up type or a back to the basket post-up type. A point forward doesn't earn the title merely by occasionally leading the break after a missed shot or turnover - many players can lead a fast break. A point forward brings the ball up on multiple possessions during a game and gets the team into its offense - even after made shots by the opponent. They play the role of forward and point guard. Now if you say Lavon can do that, great. Looking forward to seeing it. But he has not played that role for Siena as yet. When Patsos needed a third string PG behind Wright and Hymes to bring the ball up the court and get the team into its offense in Canada, he went with Poole, not Long. That is his skill set and how he played in HS....agreed he has not held the title of pg for Siena and prob never will as long as we have Wright, Hymes, and now Poole....he has done it in practice and that's where it starts...Patsos knows what Lavon can do and allows him to do ...that's why he said Lavon can play 1-4....Lavon played 1-5 in HS...he is the definition of a pt forward IMOP....no just a face up 4....he will show you
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