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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 18:26:52 GMT -5
Let's have a truce on this topic until after the Montreal road trip The topic will always come up. It came up every year of Fran's tenure, too. Every commentator in the country said Siena's problem was size. Guys can play center in the MAAC, it doesn't make them centers.
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Post by DelmartianEd on Aug 22, 2013 18:27:52 GMT -5
Actually, can we explore this more? I'm curious.
Was Ryan Rossiter a true center or were we playing two PFs then?
Let's set JO aside, but I want to talk about Imoh Silas. How is he not a true center? Is there a certain height or weight that he doesn't meet? Or a certain set of post moves that he doesn't show? What would make Imoh a center?
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Post by Tony on Aug 22, 2013 18:34:14 GMT -5
Siena won 1 NCAA game with Duell starting and had average to above average size in the rest of the starting 5 and on the bench. Nobody said it can't be done, but if that 1 example is what you want to hang your hopes on, that's rough. Please—I gave you one example in Siena’s recent past. LaSalle started 4 guards and a forward last year and went to sweet 16. A few years ago Villanova went to elite 8 playing 4 guards and forward . Wichita State last year had no true center. You really need to look into this a bit more- because quite frankly you are way off base. I really dont even know why you are arguing this? are you saying Siena cant be good because they have no true center? This is a rebuilding year for Saints anyway- and having said that- it doesn't mean Siena cant be a decent squad
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SIENA1971
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Post by SIENA1971 on Aug 22, 2013 18:36:30 GMT -5
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Aug 22, 2013 18:56:53 GMT -5
Look for the most part the 5 position in college basketball has changed. This isn't the 70's.
Ill agree a lot of teams have players that have the size to play on the block but todays players have the skill that enables them to play away from the basket. They have a handle and are decent shooters, This is an indication of a how the game has changed. The fact is a lot of teams play without a true post player.
It's style of play, not that you have a 6'9" player that has a C in front of his name on the roster sheet.
Get it.......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 19:00:45 GMT -5
Siena won 1 NCAA game with Duell starting and had average to above average size in the rest of the starting 5 and on the bench. Nobody said it can't be done, but if that 1 example is what you want to hang your hopes on, that's rough. Please—I gave you one example in Siena’s recent past. LaSalle started 4 guards and a forward last year and went to sweet 16. A few years ago Villanova went to elite 8 playing 4 guards and forward . Wichita State last year had no true center. You really need to look into this a bit more- because quite frankly you are way off base. I really dont even know why you are arguing this? are you saying Siena cant be good because they have no true center? This is a rebuilding year for Saints anyway- and having said that- it doesn't mean Siena cant be a decent squad I looked into it a bit. LaSalle started 6'11" Steve Zack 18 times and 6'9" Jarrell Wright 33 times, along with 6'5" Peterson 18 times, and 3 guards. So you were close. Did I say Siena can't be good? No, I'm pretty sure I didn't. I disputed KK's statement that Silas and Ogunyemi are centers, that's all. I agree that Siena can be decent, in fact I expect them to be better than most people here do. I also believe to be competitive at a national level, they need to recruit a center.
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Post by siena12077 on Aug 22, 2013 19:27:01 GMT -5
You don't have to agree with me. You say "He's a PF who needs to expand his game." I say he's a "center who is almost a PF." I don't get the difference. Clearly, I'm a magician that needs to learn magic. Maybe you should read what YOU wrote. You didn't say Silas was a center who's almost a PF. You said that about Ogunyemi, who nobody else has ever called a center. You started this by saying Siena has 2 centers, then using the official roster to back yourself because they list Silas as a center. And you didn't answer the question about actually watching Ogunyemi, probably because you never have. So one person is labeling the position based on skill and one person on size? Ok
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 19:31:46 GMT -5
Maybe you should read what YOU wrote. You didn't say Silas was a center who's almost a PF. You said that about Ogunyemi, who nobody else has ever called a center. You started this by saying Siena has 2 centers, then using the official roster to back yourself because they list Silas as a center. And you didn't answer the question about actually watching Ogunyemi, probably because you never have. So one person is labeling the position based on skill and one person on size? Ok Not exactly. I think we would both say both players would be undersized as centers. KK believes neither are skilled enough to be PF's and therefore dubs them centers. Silas was always listed as a PF before this year and Ogunyemi has always been a PF.
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Post by siena12077 on Aug 22, 2013 19:51:46 GMT -5
So one person is labeling the position based on skill and one person on size? Ok Not exactly. I think we would both say both players would be undersized as centers. KK believes neither are skilled enough to be PF's and therefore dubs them centers. Silas was always listed as a PF before this year and Ogunyemi has always been a PF. Well you are saying they are not true centers becuase of their size...and he is sayin they are centers because there game/skills are back to basket and play within 12 feet of the basket
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 20:24:01 GMT -5
No, actually, I'm saying they are PF's because they have always played PF and got recruited by D1 coaches as PF's. I'm also saying if Siena plays them as centers, it's not a service to the players or the team. I never mentioned either players size until my last post, so I'm not sure where you got that from.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 20:33:50 GMT -5
I'm absolutely lost about what this debate is about. Maybe if I get some LSD and 3D glasses it will make sense to me.
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Aug 22, 2013 21:18:00 GMT -5
Siena won 1 NCAA game with Duell starting and had average to above average size in the rest of the starting 5 and on the bench. Nobody said it can't be done, but if that 1 example is what you want to hang your hopes on, that's rough. Please—I gave you one example in Siena’s recent past. LaSalle started 4 guards and a forward last year and went to sweet 16. A few years ago Villanova went to elite 8 playing 4 guards and forward . Wichita State last year had no true center. You really need to look into this a bit more- because quite frankly you are way off base. I really dont even know why you are arguing this? are you saying Siena cant be good because they have no true center? This is a rebuilding year for Saints anyway- and having said that- it doesn't mean Siena cant be a decent squad thank you Tony. I've been reading this topic for 20 minutes and was to the point where I was going to say exactly what you have pointed out. There are many examples but Villanova would have to be obvious evidence to anyone that follows college basketball. The topic of "true" centers has been going on for a number of years even in the NBA.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 21:38:45 GMT -5
Not exactly. I think we would both say both players would be undersized as centers. KK believes neither are skilled enough to be PF's and therefore dubs them centers. Silas was always listed as a PF before this year and Ogunyemi has always been a PF. Well you are saying they are not true centers becuase of their size...and he is sayin they are centers because there game/skills are back to basket and play within 12 feet of the basket Why don't you change your handle to your real one? You're a peacock, you need to fly.
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Aug 22, 2013 21:45:49 GMT -5
So one person is labeling the position based on skill and one person on size? Ok Not exactly. I think we would both say both players would be undersized as centers. KK believes neither are skilled enough to be PF's and therefore dubs them centers. Silas was always listed as a PF before this year and Ogunyemi has always been a PF. I don't think there is any Siena fan that wouldn't love to see JP recruit the "3-5 stars" center that the Syracuses of the world recruit and sign. Reality sets in when you peruse the rosters of big time programs and/or conferences. We have had a few "big" centers over the past 30 years. They didn't work out too well. St. Bon. got lucky recently, like we did with a late bloomer in RR. As a positive side comment, whether Silas is classified as a center or a PF, I'm excited to see what kind of numbers he is going to put up this year in blocks. With his physical growth and development it's going to be fun to watch his numbers. I think the improvement of team quickness, people like Long and Wright, are going to make a nice difference in Silas's game.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Aug 22, 2013 23:28:56 GMT -5
Its really a MM thing...when you talking NBA you cant be a center unless you are a 7 footer and since the game has evolved all 7 footers are not centers
add that in HS the center is the least skilled so no one wants that tag...parents of tall kids are now saying they dont want their kid to learn how to play on the box so they wont get stuck there...
So a true center is rare and prob wont pick a MM.. they will be on draft boards out of HS and directed to the BCS school of his choice...
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