bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Mar 26, 2018 19:55:47 GMT -5
I heard this weekend that JP doesn’t have much of an off season conditioning program and players have to go to Dags for help. How is this possible and again why isn’t Darg all over him for it. Let’s see how rest do week plays out
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 19:59:00 GMT -5
He is not losing players....he is pushing them out. Big difference. Its not as much about the players as it is about the coaching. Nico would have never been Nico under Fran. Nico would have been a mix between Franklin and Eubiles (sp?). Lavon would have been a mix between Franklin and Hasbrough. Friday a mix between OD and Rossiter....the list goes on and on. Including the current roster, he has players that could win. He just sucks at coaching. Game time coaching, player development, player confidence, offensive scheme, you name it, he sucks. Iona won the MAAC Tornament this year. Siena could play with any team in the MAC with the current roster if utilized correctly. No kid should be pushed out of a program based on talent unless you told him upfront that this could happen. No one! For Rider, do you think Kealen Washington-Ives and Paxton Wilson both left 100% on their own? Kealen is a junior...as a role playing backup PG, where's he gonna go? Who will give him a 2 for 1? Kids get pushed out of almost every program almost every year. The only coach in the MAAC who doesn't routinely/conveniently lose the bottom kids on his roster is King Rice...and even he did it right before the big run...pushing out his bottom 6 one year after losing 21 games. Most scholarships are 1 year agreements that need to be renewed each year so kids do know...unless they don't read what they sign.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 26, 2018 20:39:10 GMT -5
He is not losing players....he is pushing them out. Big difference. Its not as much about the players as it is about the coaching. Nico would have never been Nico under Fran. Nico would have been a mix between Franklin and Eubiles (sp?). Lavon would have been a mix between Franklin and Hasbrough. Friday a mix between OD and Rossiter....the list goes on and on. Including the current roster, he has players that could win. He just sucks at coaching. Game time coaching, player development, player confidence, offensive scheme, you name it, he sucks. Iona won the MAAC Tornament this year. Siena could play with any team in the MAC with the current roster if utilized correctly. No kid should be pushed out of a program based on talent unless you told him upfront that this could happen. No one! Yes Iona won the title, let Siena use the same standards Iona uses and see what happens. Can’t have it both ways.
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Mar 26, 2018 21:35:57 GMT -5
Not saying it's right at any school, including Siena. I don't know whats going on at other programs so I cant say. Regardless, it doesn't make it right whoever is doing it.
I do know that I don't ever hear of it happening on the girls level, let alone before this thread, at other mid major programs.
I do know that the avg of 2.5 you use takes in all transfers. Which makes this an apple to oranges comparison.
I guarantee this number is heavily skewed towards a majority of these transfers being high major's losing kids who "want to leave" to go to mid majors for playing time opportunities or are grad students or a successful mid major kid who was under recruited out of high school who is now going to a high major program because he has shown he is capable of competing at that level.
I would take a good guess that if you did an apples to apples comparison the number is significantly lower for kids from unsuccessful or even successful mid majors leaving them for other D-1 programs or D-2 programs or less.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 26, 2018 21:40:24 GMT -5
However, most of the MAAC is doing a lot of the same stuff. He's not the only one recruiting bad and having a lot of player turnover. It is really quite rampant at times. So, while I agree that he deserves to be criticized....let's not make it out like because it happened at Siena it's so much different than everywhere else. It's really not. ALL coaches/programs should be held accountable for their recruiting mistakes. They should not just be allowed to get 'do-overs'.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Mar 26, 2018 21:46:05 GMT -5
Not saying it's right at any school, including Siena. I don't know whats going on at other programs so I cant say. Regardless, it doesn't make it right whoever is doing it. I do know that I don't ever hear of it happening on the girls level, let alone before this thread, at other mid major programs. I do know that the avg of 2.5 you use takes in all transfers. Which makes this an apple to oranges comparison. I guarantee this number is heavily skewed towards a majority of these transfers being high major's losing kids who "want to leave" to go to mid majors for playing time opportunities or are grad students or a successful mid major kid who was under recruited out of high school who is now going to a high major program because he has shown he is capable of competing at that level. I would take a good guess that if you did an apples to apples comparison the number is significantly lower for kids from unsuccessful or even successful mid majors leaving them for other D-1 programs or D-2 programs or less. Please. I’m sure that a majority of kids leaving the high-major ranks to go to smaller programs were doing it completely on their own volition. High-majors run way more kids off than Siena. Some on this board are incredibly naive, that’s all I’ll say.
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Mar 26, 2018 22:18:34 GMT -5
Glad to know your such an expert.....at least when they are being pushed out of high majors, the Iona's of the world are there to snatch them up. That's not the case at the mid major level.
It doesn't change the fact that the majority of transfers are not mid majors going to other mid majors or down to D2.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Mar 26, 2018 22:29:09 GMT -5
Glad to know your such an expert.....at least when they are being pushed out of high majors, the Iona's of the world are there to snatch them up. That's not the case at the mid major level. It doesn't change the fact that the majority of transfers are not mid majors going to other mid majors or down to D2. “Nearly 60% of transfers, instead of joining other D-I teams, have left D-I basketball completely since the 2012 offseason.” athleticdirectoru.com/articles/investigating-college-basketballs-transfer-movement/I’m not an expert, but I’m smart enough to read and learn the facts rather than making false generalizations to fit a narrative.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Mar 26, 2018 22:41:06 GMT -5
These guys really think every transfer is a kid that got pushed out. It's laughable. No one ever leaves for their own reasons. 😂
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Mar 26, 2018 23:15:14 GMT -5
Lol...your own article proves my point. The Power 5 schools avg. for leaving is about 30% higher than that of the mid major like the MAAC. The MAAC is at a 2.04 rate while most Power 5's are close or beyond the 3% avg.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Mar 26, 2018 23:55:00 GMT -5
Lol...your own article proves my point. The Power 5 schools avg. for leaving is about 30% higher than that of the mid major like the MAAC. The MAAC is at a 2.04 rate while most Power 5's are close or beyond the 3% avg. This is what you wrote just one post before that I was responding to: “It doesn't change the fact that the majority of transfers are not mid majors going to other mid majors or down to D2.” And Never did I say that high-major players don’t transfer more than mid-major players. I said they run more kids off, which proves my own point. Look back at the posts. “High-majors run way more kids off than Siena” Now, the numbers do say that Siena would then have a slightly higher transfer rate than typical for the MAAC. That doesn’t surprise me. I’m not a proponent of running off tons of kids. I’m just smart enough to understand that it’s sometimes necessary to do it. I’d love to have a coach who never makes recruiting mistakes and every kid we land is a star... news flash: even Fran ran off kids! I want JP gone, his recruiting mistakes have been crippling and he’s not the guy I want leading this program. But the fact that he has to run of players slightly above league average and equal to the national average doesn’t keep me up at night. I hope the next HC makes much fewer recruiting mistakes and doesn’t have to run as many guys off, but I’m not going to further hinder Patsos’s ability to win if he’s back next year by not giving him scholarships to work with. If Patsos brings back this roster next year, Siena wins 8 games and he’s fired (and half the roster gets cut by a new coach). If you let Patsos “cut” 2-3 guys who aren’t going to be playing for Timberlake, Welch, Emilien, etc, you at least give him a fighting chance.
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Mar 26, 2018 23:56:26 GMT -5
Off the topic but UT ARLINGTON fired a coach that was 82-33over last 3 year's.Wow beat Texas Ohio state and BYU twice ST.Mary's
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Mar 27, 2018 5:50:57 GMT -5
The roster is not as bad as you might all think it is.
A new coach could be successful with these group of athletes. No need to push them out the door.
We have never had a coach who gives them the opportunity to play to their strengths. To loosen the reigns. To build their confidence. To be objective.
Open it up...,speed it up. From the get go, play 4 guard sets. Penn, Richard, Horn, Camper, Huerter, California Freshman, Shivers, and Bentley. Rotate Oduro, Friday, and Fisher in and out of lineup as the 5th. Let guys play through some of their mistakes. Build confidence. Ball movement. Extra pass when needed but when you have an open look or an open lane, all on the floor should have the green light within reason to shoot it or go to the hoop without hesitation or immediate retribution if the result is not what you were hoping for.
You let them play. You build confidence. And by the time the MAAC season starts, you will have a contender.
We know in Penn, Richard, and Horn, we can get a consistent 45 pts a night minimum from these three if given the chance to play an up tempo game.
If we can get 30-35 pts a night from the rest of them, we will win more games than we lose.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 27, 2018 6:12:35 GMT -5
These guys really think every transfer is a kid that got pushed out. It's laughable. No one ever leaves for their own reasons. 😂 Why are you talking in absolutes and hyperbole? Nobody said every transfer is getting pushed out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 6:46:03 GMT -5
The roster is not as bad as you might all think it is. A new coach could be successful with these group of athletes. No need to push them out the door. We have never had a coach who gives them the opportunity to play to their strengths. To loosen the reigns. To build their confidence. To be objective. Open it up...,speed it up. From the get go, play 4 guard sets. Penn, Richard, Horn, Camper, Huerter, California Freshman, Shivers, and Bentley. Rotate Oduro, Friday, and Fisher in and out of lineup as the 5th. Let guys play through some of their mistakes. Build confidence. Ball movement. Extra pass when needed but when you have an open look or an open lane, all on the floor should have the green light within reason to shoot it or go to the hoop without hesitation or immediate retribution if the result is not what you were hoping for. You let them play. You build confidence. And by the time the MAAC season starts, you will have a contender. We know in Penn, Richard, and Horn, we can get a consistent 45 pts a night minimum from these three if given the chance to play an up tempo game. If we can get 30-35 pts a night from the rest of them, we will win more games than we lose. You’re forgetting that most of these kids are subpar defenders. Even if Oduro takes a big leap forward, it doesn’t change the problem on D. They absolutely need some higher level defenders and it can’t be at an offensive trade off. We need a couple more all around players to do the bulk of the heavy lifting so the shooters and role players become more effective.
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