CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Mar 25, 2018 13:42:52 GMT -5
The contract is what it is. You can blame JP for his poor recruiting, ineffectual game calling planning, his lack bringing the kids along. The thing you can blame on him is the contract details. That is strictly accountable to the AD and school administration. The contents of the contract are not generally known with exception of the length. Again before commenting get the contract published, published guarantee the outcry will be such that AD and admin may just resign. Those clowns agreed to the contract. OD, remember that the school and JP's agent did not sit down and negotiate a contract of their own making. In any industry, there are certain terms, practices and even compensation concepts that have been developed over time and have been used so much they become almost standard. Jimmy and his agent had a fair degree of leverage from this fact. Sure you can customize it to some extent but certain things are pretty much "take it or leave it" if you want that particular coach. Unless the aspiring coach is fairly new or desperate the industry is going to expect their deal will have certain terms. Buyouts are one of them. Now the premature extension has proven to be a disaster, and that is on the AD and Administration, but the may not be as blameful for the initial deal. The contracts really are, at least in part, "what they are." I think most here understand that a new coach is signing a 4 or 5 year contract. The only problem most have here is with the one year then two year extension. |
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Post by greenblood on Mar 25, 2018 14:05:54 GMT -5
How about the coaches eat those mistakes by having the run off kids tuition counter any bonus owed the coach at year end.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Mar 25, 2018 14:24:59 GMT -5
How about the coaches eat those mistakes by having the run off kids tuition counter any bonus owed the coach at year end. Yeah that works the same as anyone who transfers owes for the year or two they were on scholarship and if a player doesn't graduate he owes for his time at the school.lol |
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 25, 2018 16:08:00 GMT -5
How about the coaches eat those mistakes by having the run off kids tuition counter any bonus owed the coach at year end. Yeah that works the same as anyone who transfers owes for the year or two they were on scholarship and if a player doesn't graduate he owes for his time at the school.lol why, the kids already "pay the price".........when they transfer, they have to sit out a yr...........coaches don't have any restrictions when they move around.............. |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 25, 2018 17:19:26 GMT -5
I've said before if it's the kids decision and they come to a mutual parting, then fine. I just do not agree a coach should be able to say 'You're gone. Not renewing you. " Since the coach has the greater power of public communication, he always holds the upper hand and can spin it to his benefit, so I would have to put some of the responsibility back on the school (and maybe the NCAA). . Not sure how you are saying anything different than me, but feel free to vent. Just discussion, not venting. If you are for keeping coaches more accountable for their recruiting 'mistakes', then yes we are in agreement. Guess I misunderstood. |
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Mar 25, 2018 22:24:42 GMT -5
I agree with hj and green gold forever, the only other point I will bring up is I believe most kids transfer to d2 when forc d out because of the wait one rule. That rule has to go if we are going to allow a free for all. When you say you agree, you don't think a school/coach has any obligation/responsibility for his recruiting mistakes ? This could be for ANY reason, ranging from just mis-evaluated the kid to where he missed on higher recruits and had to 'settle' for kids of lower talent. So, he just gets to say "You didn't work out for me. See ya." As many times as he feels necessary. And again, I am not accounting for academic or character issues. I think a coach should be held accountable for those 'mistakes'. Does any other business have to live with hiring mistakes? When there's no guarantee, and scholarships arent guaranteed, things can change in a minute. What if a kid signs and goes away for the first time and starts drinking beer every night. Loses all perspective of what he's doing at the college that gave him a free ride? Doesnt work out, late for practice, gains 20 lbs etc....Should the school honor the next 3 years? Our coach has a GUARANTEE, and thats why hes still here. You have to be the only one that hasnt realized hes got 2 guaranteed. The buyout number of $750K (2 years salary) has been out here a lot. |
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Post by SaintsFan on Mar 26, 2018 5:27:24 GMT -5
When you say you agree, you don't think a school/coach has any obligation/responsibility for his recruiting mistakes ? This could be for ANY reason, ranging from just mis-evaluated the kid to where he missed on higher recruits and had to 'settle' for kids of lower talent. So, he just gets to say "You didn't work out for me. See ya." As many times as he feels necessary. And again, I am not accounting for academic or character issues. I think a coach should be held accountable for those 'mistakes'. Does any other business have to live with hiring mistakes? When there's no guarantee, and scholarships arent guaranteed, things can change in a minute. What if a kid signs and goes away for the first time and starts drinking beer every night. Loses all perspective of what he's doing at the college that gave him a free ride? Doesnt work out, late for practice, gains 20 lbs etc....Should the school honor the next 3 years? Our coach has a GUARANTEE, and thats why hes still here. You have to be the only one that hasnt realized hes got 2 guaranteed. The buyout number of $750K (2 years salary) has been out here a lot. Siena lives with a LOT more than hiring mistakes. Essentially, anyone involved with the basketball program should be terminated. Siena shouldnt be making any contracts that they can't escape from under the proper circumstances. The problem is... this coach is the lazy worker who does JUST enough to not get fired. But never enough to amount to anything. |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 26, 2018 7:06:49 GMT -5
When you say you agree, you don't think a school/coach has any obligation/responsibility for his recruiting mistakes ? This could be for ANY reason, ranging from just mis-evaluated the kid to where he missed on higher recruits and had to 'settle' for kids of lower talent. So, he just gets to say "You didn't work out for me. See ya." As many times as he feels necessary. And again, I am not accounting for academic or character issues. I think a coach should be held accountable for those 'mistakes'. Does any other business have to live with hiring mistakes? When there's no guarantee, and scholarships arent guaranteed, things can change in a minute. What if a kid signs and goes away for the first time and starts drinking beer every night. Loses all perspective of what he's doing at the college that gave him a free ride? Doesnt work out, late for practice, gains 20 lbs etc....Should the school honor the next 3 years? Our coach has a GUARANTEE, and thats why hes still here. You have to be the only one that hasnt realized hes got 2 guaranteed. The buyout number of $750K (2 years salary) has been out here a lot. I've already said a kid has to maintain academic & character requirements to keep his scholarship. My position has always been that a coach should be more accountable for his recruits at least as much as a player. Set aside weight gain, partying. late for practice, academic, legal issues etc. My point still remains - I don't think a kid should be thrown to the wayside simply because he is not as good on the court as the coach originally thought that caused him to pursue and offer him. Again, several paid professionals watching and courting him for months/years, home & on-campus visits to convince him to be a part of his program. Don't give him minutes - push him to 11,12 or 13th on the depth chart. That's fine. That's 3 mistakes right there, no? But again, sounds like we have a philosophical difference on this. Our truth is we had no seniors this year, 1 junior recruited as a frosh and a transfer we have used 2 years of scholarship for possibly only 1 season of minimal playing time. Sticks out to me as a history of recruiting failures. And I certainly understand he has a guarantee. I've heard conflicting reports as to whether it was 2 or 3 more years on the guarantee. I hope he's had a wake-up call regarding recruiting and lands somebody who can help this team. But it must be comforting to know that he has 2 more years salary guaranteed. With that the AD & school is being held accountable for their 'mistakes'. I just think there should be more accountability all the way around. If there was, we may not be in this situation. |
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stbernie
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Post by stbernie on Mar 26, 2018 10:39:28 GMT -5
Regardless of the coaching situation I will admit that there is going to be a lot of talent on this team next year. Unless there are guys that are not going to return I do not understand how we have any more roster spots available for recruits. Wojick will start right away and I do believe that Baker will play quite a bit. I really hope Jimmy can figure out that he needs to play camper and use Fisher only in foul trouble. Lets hope he learns how to coach these guys because otherwise it is a waste of talent. I couldn't yell any louder at the MAAC tournament to put camper in the game...little too late there Jimbo...We should be good this upcoming year!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 10:43:31 GMT -5
Regardless of the coaching situation I will admit that there is going to be a lot of talent on this team next year. Unless there are guys that are not going to return I do not understand how we have any more roster spots available for recruits. Wojick will start right away and I do believe that Baker will play quite a bit. I really hope Jimmy can figure out that he needs to play camper and use Fisher only in foul trouble. Lets hope he learns how to coach these guys because otherwise it is a waste of talent. I couldn't yell any louder at the MAAC tournament to put camper in the game...little too late there Jimbo...We should be good this upcoming year! Wojcik might very well be the slowest guy on the roster next year after Evan Fisher. If Richard and Horn are still around, there's not even a guarantee that he's not a redshirt candidate. |
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Mar 26, 2018 11:30:40 GMT -5
I hate seeing kids get run off but am in the camp that most of the kids leaving programs are doing so of their own volition. At the end of the season, the coaching will meet with the individual players and discuss where they stand, what they need to work on and expectations going forward. So, if a coach tells you that you are going to be the 11th through 13th player on the roster, many kids make the choice to leave. That's simply how it works these days. (And for what it's worth, down here in texas they do it with high school football players after spring practice. My son can expect to meet with his position coach and will be advised which team he will be on next year and where he stands in the pecking order. and that is for a kid who just finished his freshman year of high school)
As for transfer rules, I just don't see how sitting a year after you move to a new school as a punishment. The kid gets to live and workout with the team, go to class and it's all paid for. So, he has to take 5 years instead of 4. I believe the average student takes closer to 5 years to graduate than 4 anyway. Sorry, you sign a contract to go to the school and adhere to NCAA rules. (including those having to do with transferring between programs). If you don't want to abide by them, don't go to college.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 11:45:55 GMT -5
My family and I paid for my college so I'm of the mind that if you get even one year of college for free these days in exchange for playing a game, you have nothing to complain about ever. You'll get what you get and you will like it.
If a professional athlete gets cut, he looks for another opportunity. He doesn't cry 'foul' on some moral ground. If these kids aren't ready for this kind of reality, then they aren't ready for the world.
That's not to say that this is always the case, just that it's how I view it. These kids are privileged.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Mar 26, 2018 12:03:15 GMT -5
Patsos 2030.
Exactly^^^^^^^. Post of the month.
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 26, 2018 12:04:50 GMT -5
Regardless of the coaching situation I will admit that there is going to be a lot of talent on this team next year. Unless there are guys that are not going to return I do not understand how we have any more roster spots available for recruits. Wojick will start right away and I do believe that Baker will play quite a bit. I really hope Jimmy can figure out that he needs to play camper and use Fisher only in foul trouble. Lets hope he learns how to coach these guys because otherwise it is a waste of talent. I couldn't yell any louder at the MAAC tournament to put camper in the game...little too late there Jimbo...We should be good this upcoming year! A lot of talent on this roster?  ....................have you gone to games this past season, you do recall we finished in a TIE for dead last in the MAAC with Marist, and we only got the 10th seed because of a tie breaker.................we are adding 2 players right now (hopefully 2-3 more), but NEITHER puts us over the top or even climbing up in the standings.............. |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 26, 2018 14:36:13 GMT -5
My family and I paid for my college so I'm of the mind that if you get even one year of college for free these days in exchange for playing a game, you have nothing to complain about ever. You'll get what you get and you will like it. If a professional athlete gets cut, he looks for another opportunity. He doesn't cry 'foul' on some moral ground. If these kids aren't ready for this kind of reality, then they aren't ready for the world. That's not to say that this is always the case, just that it's how I view it. These kids are privileged. So, you think it’s perfectly fine for a coach to make critical recruiting mistakes, decides he no longer likes/wants the kid, tells him to take a hike and then gets another chance to recruit? Potentially, this could happen regularly and even intentionally (“Gee, I didn’t get who I wanted this year, so I’ll take this guy now and get rid of him next year." Worse yet, he could do it after the kid’s junior year.) If you do agree with that, then we will have to agree to disagree. (In addition, we give sons of high-paid D1 coaches scholarships they don’t deserve. Talk about privileged. Nice.) |
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