Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 14:59:03 GMT -5
My family and I paid for my college so I'm of the mind that if you get even one year of college for free these days in exchange for playing a game, you have nothing to complain about ever. You'll get what you get and you will like it. If a professional athlete gets cut, he looks for another opportunity. He doesn't cry 'foul' on some moral ground. If these kids aren't ready for this kind of reality, then they aren't ready for the world. That's not to say that this is always the case, just that it's how I view it. These kids are privileged. So, you think it’s perfectly fine for a coach to make critical recruiting mistakes, decides he no longer likes/wants the kid, tells him to take a hike and then gets another chance to recruit? Potentially, this could happen regularly and even intentionally (“Gee, I didn’t get who I wanted this year, so I’ll take this guy now and get rid of him next year." Worse yet, he could do it after the kid’s junior year.) If you do agree with that, then we will have to agree to disagree. (In addition, we give sons of high-paid D1 coaches scholarships they don’t deserve. Talk about privileged. Nice.) If it was a recruiting mistake, then most likely the kid was lucky to get the opportunity in the first place and he just got a year of free education out of it.
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Mar 26, 2018 15:09:32 GMT -5
At the end of the day there's no perfect scenario.Kids get run off all the time all schools.You never hear about the stories but it does so there's nothing being done here that's not around the country.It happens in D1 and D2 if a coach can benefit it's happening.Not saying it's right but it is what it is.No way a parent or player should go in believing anything couldn't happen.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Mar 26, 2018 15:17:29 GMT -5
Title of this thread is "Hold Strong People". Sammy Friday is one of the stronger people on the team so we definitely have to hold onto him. Not sure why people are still discussing the topic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 15:40:26 GMT -5
If you look back at who most of the kids had interest from, Siena was usually their best opportunity...if they even had another one at all.
Hell, we got guys like Shivers and White in August. If it wasn't for Siena they get nothing. There have been very few Siena kids under Jimmy who really had many other options.
Whether it works out for all 4 years or not, most of these kids should be thankful for the opportunity for free education at all.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 26, 2018 15:47:54 GMT -5
So, you think it’s perfectly fine for a coach to make critical recruiting mistakes, decides he no longer likes/wants the kid, tells him to take a hike and then gets another chance to recruit? Potentially, this could happen regularly and even intentionally (“Gee, I didn’t get who I wanted this year, so I’ll take this guy now and get rid of him next year." Worse yet, he could do it after the kid’s junior year.) If you do agree with that, then we will have to agree to disagree. (In addition, we give sons of high-paid D1 coaches scholarships they don’t deserve. Talk about privileged. Nice.) If it was a recruiting mistake, then most likely the kid was lucky to get the opportunity in the first place and he just got a year of free education out of it. Coach's mistake. When a coach comes into a kids home to sell his program and then offers, that's his bad. I put other scenarios up, including doing that as a strategy. I am against it in general. Agree to disagree.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Mar 26, 2018 15:51:24 GMT -5
You guys are making this way too complicated. The issue is simple.
NCAA transfer average is approx 40% for Freshman leaving after their sophomore year. Jimmy has lost 65% of his first three classes with year 4’s results pending. He’s well in excess of the NCAA average. It’s no mystery why he’s now a sub 500 (.450) guy at Siena (player ability & turnover). Recruiting has been abysmal. Put in the effort and find kids that are not only legitimate D1 mids but a good fit. This would reduce those numbers immensely.
Looking back Siena has never had this kind of turnover in the past. This is a new (Patsos driven) issue for Siena. The entire problem has been brought on by bringing in far too many kids that were not a good fit and not good enough to play and compete on this level. The proofs in the turnover numbers. End of story!
I don’t care if it’s the assistants or JPs targets. The headcoach has the final responsibility for evaluating and signing off on each and every scholarship. If we’re losing players at a 65% clip someone hasn’t been doing their job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 16:12:46 GMT -5
I'm not going to stand up for Jimmy's recruiting. He's made a lot of bad choices and I've pointed them out every step of the way. However, most of the MAAC is doing a lot of the same stuff. He's not the only one recruiting bad and having a lot of player turnover.
It is really quite rampant at times.
So, while I agree that he deserves to be criticized....let's not make it out like because it happened at Siena it's so much different than everywhere else. It's really not.
It's just that many people don't pay attention to what others are doing. People are more critical of what their favorite program is doing rather than what a program they don't have a vested interest in is doing.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 26, 2018 17:15:11 GMT -5
The accountability indian82 seeks should lie with the college. Mts was scoffed at but he posted what should happen: the ad signs off on the recruits. That way patsos can’t sign anymore cam gotfrieds.,
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 26, 2018 17:42:58 GMT -5
I'm not going to stand up for Jimmy's recruiting. He's made a lot of bad choices and I've pointed them out every step of the way. However, most of the MAAC is doing a lot of the same stuff. He's not the only one recruiting bad and having a lot of player turnover. It is really quite rampant at times. So, while I agree that he deserves to be criticized....let's not make it out like because it happened at Siena it's so much different than everywhere else. It's really not. It's just that many people don't pay attention to what others are doing. People are more critical of what their favorite program is doing rather than what a program they don't have a vested interest in is doing. you obviously don't have kids KK....................because when your kids come to you with something that isn't right and they say "why not, everyone else is doing it"................same correlation to Siena.........we don't have to think it is OK, nor do we just accept it because OTHERS around us are doing it................one would think, Siena could be DIFFERENT.............just sayin'...........
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Post by MTS on Mar 26, 2018 18:01:24 GMT -5
Most unbelievable stat of Loyola going to the final four is before this year Porter Moser had a worse career record than Jimmy Patsos and never finished higher than 5th in over a decade of coaching at three different places. Of all the mid majors to make the final four Loyola might be the most unlikely.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Mar 26, 2018 18:06:26 GMT -5
So, while I agree that he deserves to be criticized....let's not make it out like because it happened at Siena it's so much different than everywhere else. It's really not. It's just that many people don't pay attention to what others are doing. People are more critical of what their favorite program is doing rather than what a program they don't have a vested interest in is doing. KK I get this is a NCAA wide issue however.... It’s a Siena issue when the NCAA transfer average is being exceeded by a fairly large percentage (4 out of 10 for the NCAA vs. almost 7 out of 10 for Siena). It’s also a Siena issue because this is relatively new phenomena occurring within the program for the first time. No other Siena coach has lost players to this extent.
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Mar 26, 2018 18:47:45 GMT -5
He is not losing players....he is pushing them out. Big difference. Its not as much about the players as it is about the coaching. Nico would have never been Nico under Fran. Nico would have been a mix between Franklin and Eubiles (sp?). Lavon would have been a mix between Franklin and Hasbrough. Friday a mix between OD and Rossiter....the list goes on and on. Including the current roster, he has players that could win. He just sucks at coaching. Game time coaching, player development, player confidence, offensive scheme, you name it, he sucks.
Iona won the MAAC Tornament this year. Siena could play with any team in the MAC with the current roster if utilized correctly.
No kid should be pushed out of a program based on talent unless you told him upfront that this could happen. No one!
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Post by MTS on Mar 26, 2018 18:57:54 GMT -5
He is not losing players....he is pushing them out. Big difference. Its not as much about the players as it is about the coaching. Nico would have never been Nico under Fran. Nico would have been a mix between Franklin and Eubiles (sp?). Lavon would have been a mix between Franklin and Hasbrough. Friday a mix between OD and Rossiter....the list goes on and on. Including the current roster, he has players that could win. He just sucks at coaching. Game time coaching, player development, player confidence, offensive scheme, you name it, he sucks. Iona won the MAAC Tornament this year. Siena could play with any team in the MAC with the current roster if utilized correctly. No kid should be pushed out of a program based on talent unless you told him upfront that this could happen. No one! Let's not get carried away - Friday a mix of OD/Rossier? Long was a good player - he's not Alex Franklin. Nico was more Clarence Jackson than anyone else but not disciplined enough.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Mar 26, 2018 19:01:09 GMT -5
He is not losing players....he is pushing them out. Big difference. Its not as much about the players as it is about the coaching. Nico would have never been Nico under Fran. Nico would have been a mix between Franklin and Eubiles (sp?). Lavon would have been a mix between Franklin and Hasbrough. Friday a mix between OD and Rossiter....the list goes on and on. Including the current roster, he has players that could win. He just sucks at coaching. Game time coaching, player development, player confidence, offensive scheme, you name it, he sucks. Iona won the MAAC Tornament this year. Siena could play with any team in the MAC with the current roster if utilized correctly. No kid should be pushed out of a program based on talent unless you told him upfront that this could happen. No one! Friday v. RyRo and OD ... No way! Friday has a major conditioning issue. Until he gets himself into game shape he’s never going to be anything but a 5-7 mpg player. That’s on him, he has good footwork and some ability but absolutely no stamina. Little exaggeration on those comps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 19:43:17 GMT -5
So, while I agree that he deserves to be criticized....let's not make it out like because it happened at Siena it's so much different than everywhere else. It's really not. It's just that many people don't pay attention to what others are doing. People are more critical of what their favorite program is doing rather than what a program they don't have a vested interest in is doing. KK I get this is a NCAA wide issue however.... It’s a Siena issue when the NCAA transfer average is being exceeded by a fairly large percentage (4 out of 10 for the NCAA vs. almost 7 out of 10 for Siena). It’s also a Siena issue because this is relatively new phenomena occurring within the program for the first time. No other Siena coach has lost players to this extent. The average NCAA men's transfers last year was 2.5 per year per school. Excluding this year as it's not yet over...Jimmy has had 10 players transfer in 4 years. That's 2.5 a year. Your math is looking at it from a 4 year standpoint, which I get, but by the overall yearly numbers....it's still just average.
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