PF & C

[nolesaint]

A couple quick observations.

Evan Fisher maybe a great leader, young man etc. but unless he improves 10fold he should never see the floor. If he does the Saints will at best have a SoSoJimbo year.

Camper and Shivers playing as PFs? Please - no! Over the years the number of successful MAAC 6-5 or shorter PFs can be counted on one hand, ok maybe need a digit or two on the other hand as well. If these young men play PF it won't even be a SoSoJimbo year it will be a train wreck.

We had a 4/5 who could run the floor, shoot and block shots but SoSoJimbo chased him off after he went home for a summer.

My thoughts on the
5: Friday and Oduro
4: Degnan and Huerter (although if Thomas can defend the 3 he would be a good option there too)

Have at it...

[goldsaint17]

I can't speak to Camper, as there is very little tape for me to go on. However, I do think that Shivers can be deployed at the 4. When you do that, you are doing what Monmouth did for large stretches of last season with Josh James and Iona did for large stretches with EJ Crawford.

You can play 4 guards in the MAAC, as long as at least one of them is strong, physical, and can hold his own on the glass. Shivers can most definitely do that. The MAAC will be extremely weak at both big man spots this season, it will be rare to see a team with a 4 who scares you as a back-to-the-basket threat. Unless Degnan is very good, I'm inclined to get some of our talented guards as much floor time as possible by going to a 4 guard look for 10-20 minutes a night (perhaps Penn, Horn, Clareth, Shivers) and running.

[Deleted]

Jun 13, 2017 7:06:38 GMT -5 nolesaint said:

A couple quick observations.

Evan Fisher maybe a great leader, young man etc. but unless he improves 10fold he should never see the floor. If he does the Saints will at best have a SoSoJimbo year.

Camper and Shivers playing as PFs? Please - no! Over the years the number of successful MAAC 6-5 or shorter PFs can be counted on one hand, ok maybe need a digit or two on the other hand as well. If these young men play PF it won't even be a SoSoJimbo year it will be a train wreck.

We had a 4/5 who could run the floor, shoot and block shots but SoSoJimbo chased him off after he went home for a summer.

My thoughts on the
5: Friday and Oduro
4: Degnan and Huerter (although if Thomas can defend the 3 he would be a good option there too)

Have at it...

As you said yourself, there are a fair amount of examples of 6-5 PFs on winning teams in the MAAC. Fran, Cooley, and JAM made a living using those guys. Maybe they weren't all stars but they helped their team's win.

Deon Jones - Monmouth
Jermaine Crumpton - Canisius
Chris Manhertz - Canisius
Emmy Andujar - Manhattan
Alex Franklin - Siena
Bilal Benn - Niagara
Maurice Barrow - Fairfield
Rakim Sanders - Fairfield
Yorel Hawkins - Fairfield
Warren Edney - Fairfield
Jeron Belin - SPU
EJ Crawford - Iona


If it weren't for Isaiah Williams being 6-7, I bet Iona would have had more examples of this...but he was a wing.
Or how about everybody's favorite honorary MAAC player...Anthony Lamb. Sometimes you go with talent over height.

There is also a reason some teams go 4 out 1 in. There are advantages to it. You can run better, spread the floor better, shoot better, press better, and take care of the ball better. You just need the right guy in that position.

A guy like Manny Camper, who on paper, seems like pure energy could be that kind of guy. You need a guy there who can give you some sort of advantage. On paper, he may be able to be a bouncier, more aggressive Lavon Long. Per maxpreps, he rebounds, blocks shots, gets steals, and gets to the FT line at a pace that would have led the MAAC in FTA's easy. And his assist ratio is near 1 to 1.

You'll say the competition he faced wasn't good, fine. Still, even if you take just say 60% of Campers' stats as his potential he could be a 15 ppg, 6 reb, 2 assist guy who gets like 55 steals, 20 blocks and gets to the FT line 170 times a year. That's a guy you find a position for no matter how tall he is.

[greengold4ever]

and don't forget, Bruce Schroeder was 6'3" (at best) playing the 4/PF for Mike Deane................just sayin'

[Deleted]

I don't think we'll see Heurter much at the 3.

I think he's better suited as a flex 4.

This team needs to run. It has speed and attacking ability. It shouldn't water it down with putting Heurter at the 3.

As much as I think Degnan can be pretty good, I'm anxious to see a lineup of Penn, Horn, Clareth, Camper, Oduro/Friday if the frosh are anything near what they are on paper.

A lot of teams have gone a little big heavy and/or may have questionable ballhandling depth. We have speed and ballhandling depth on paper. A lot of guys who can attack and create. I think the difference in style Siena could bring could make them a very interesting running/pressing team in a year where the league has really turned over.

I know. It's unrealistic to put so much stock in freshmen and you never know what Jimmy will do. Yada Yada Yada.
I just think there's something to potentially see here.

I'm just seeing more depth of potential in this class than in previous ones. I know these guys weren't highly ranked or hyped.
But skills are skills. Ronald Moore, Kenny Hasbrouck, Brett Bisping, Marquis Wright...a lot of those guys came out of nowhere with little offers too.

[OneIndian]

Kids haven't played a second in a Siena uniform, think I'll wait and see, every off-season it's the same hype, all sorts of arm chair analysis and high expectations. Then a few months later the season starts and the reality of Jimbo's recruiting starts to unfold....

Lets give it a dozen games before we say who is gonna do what, who's gonna get PT and play where, given Jimbo's penchant for doing what defies logic all bets are off....

[Deleted]

Jun 13, 2017 11:55:15 GMT -5 OneIndian said:

Kids haven't played a second in a Siena uniform, think I'll wait and see, every off-season it's the same BS hype, all sorts of arm chair analysis and high expectations. Then a few months later the season starts and the reality of Jimbo's recruiting starts to unfold and reality sets in....

Lets give it a dozen games before we say who is gonna do what, who's gonna get PT and play where, given Jimbo's penchant for doing what defies logic all bets are off....

1.) All we're talking about here is rotations and a chance for top 5 finish in a down MAAC. We're not predicting world champions here.
2.) If I didn't throw this stuff out there every summer I'm pretty sure there would be next to zero basketball discussion either here or on MAAC board between March and October.

Yes, Jimmy could screw it all up with poor rotation choices and yes, these kids are young and may not avoid the PIG next year or end up as the next Siena greats. But what else is there to talk about?

[rickyp]

I agree basketballs over waiting for football to begin nothing else to talk about but i think this is the team and type of players the coaches have been wanting

[skipc]

Jun 13, 2017 11:55:15 GMT -5 OneIndian said:

Kids haven't played a second in a Siena uniform, think I'll wait and see, every off-season it's the same hype, all sorts of arm chair analysis and high expectations. Then a few months later the season starts and the reality of Jimbo's recruiting starts to unfold....

Lets give it a dozen games before we say who is gonna do what, who's gonna get PT and play where, given Jimbo's penchant for doing what defies logic all bets are off....

I'll take the "under". Would have taken the "under" if you had said two games.

[IndianSaint]

Jun 13, 2017 12:35:09 GMT -5 @saintkk said:

Jun 13, 2017 11:55:15 GMT -5 OneIndian said:

Kids haven't played a second in a Siena uniform, think I'll wait and see, every off-season it's the same BS hype, all sorts of arm chair analysis and high expectations. Then a few months later the season starts and the reality of Jimbo's recruiting starts to unfold and reality sets in....

Lets give it a dozen games before we say who is gonna do what, who's gonna get PT and play where, given Jimbo's penchant for doing what defies logic all bets are off....

1.) All we're talking about here is rotations and a chance for top 5 finish in a down MAAC. We're not predicting world champions here.
2.) If I didn't throw this stuff out there every summer I'm pretty sure there would be next to zero basketball discussion either here or on MAAC board between March and October.

Yes, Jimmy could screw it all up with poor rotation choices and yes, these kids are young and may not avoid the PIG next year or end up as the next Siena greats. But what else is there to talk about?

I, for one, appreciate KK's posts; especially his in depth independent analysis of players/skills/projected stats/etc..

It tends to be more positive (at least neutral) than the Debbie Downers who only seem to want to post doom & gloom information.

I may not agree with KK on everything but I like his insight into players' capabilities.

[Deleted]

I completely understand the negativity with regard to Jimmy. I don't forgive him for last year's record. That team was better than its record and that's on Jimmy. And the Nash fiasco..ugh.

Jimmy has his issues.

Still, Siena has a lot of guard speed and handling ability. They could be more able to play that pressing man to man that Jimmy prefers.

JO, Brett, and LL weren't really uptempo players. Degnan, Oduro, and Friday may not be either but at least we have 8 guards plus Heurter now. And most are fairly athletic and can create for themselves.

If they are truly taking a Canada trip, I think they have enough to get top 5 in this MAAC. It's wide open.

They're all young and have question marks but I see a team full of energy players who can attack in transition on both sides of the ball.

What if, hypothetically, Camper was full of energy like his stats indicate?

Penn, Clareth, Camper could all be capable of 50+ steals on paper and the latter two could both be a threat to block 20+ shots too. That right there is the makings of a dynamic 2-way transition team well on it's way to 250+ steals.

Add the rest around that and it might be a team that could put teams on their heels both ways.

That's a ton of ifs and buts, but it's possible on paper.

[rickyp]

So has anyone heard conformation on the Canada trip that would really help out the process of some of these freshman and returning players Oh Canada

[OneIndian]

Jun 13, 2017 14:11:13 GMT -5 IndianSaint said:

Jun 13, 2017 12:35:09 GMT -5 @saintkk said:

1.) All we're talking about here is rotations and a chance for top 5 finish in a down MAAC. We're not predicting world champions here.
2.) If I didn't throw this stuff out there every summer I'm pretty sure there would be next to zero basketball discussion either here or on MAAC board between March and October.

Yes, Jimmy could screw it all up with poor rotation choices and yes, these kids are young and may not avoid the PIG next year or end up as the next Siena greats. But what else is there to talk about?

I, for one, appreciate KK's posts; especially his in depth independent analysis of players/skills/projected stats/etc..

It tends to be more positive (at least neutral) than the Debbie Downers who only seem to want to post doom & gloom information.

I may not agree with KK on everything but I like his insight into players' capabilities.

Just to clarify comment wasn't directed at any person specifically just an observation. Every year it's the same story, preseason optimism/hype abounds and then reality sets in, happens like clockwork!

[Deleted]

Jun 13, 2017 16:17:15 GMT -5 OneIndian said:

Jun 13, 2017 14:11:13 GMT -5 IndianSaint said:

I, for one, appreciate KK's posts; especially his in depth independent analysis of players/skills/projected stats/etc..

It tends to be more positive (at least neutral) than the Debbie Downers who only seem to want to post doom & gloom information.

I may not agree with KK on everything but I like his insight into players' capabilities.

Just to clarify comment wasn't directed to any person specifically just an observation. Every year it's the same story preseason optimism/hype abounds and then reality sets in, happens like clockwork!

Too late.

[hoopjunkie]

Jun 13, 2017 12:35:09 GMT -5 @saintkk said:

Jun 13, 2017 11:55:15 GMT -5 OneIndian said:

Kids haven't played a second in a Siena uniform, think I'll wait and see, every off-season it's the same BS hype, all sorts of arm chair analysis and high expectations. Then a few months later the season starts and the reality of Jimbo's recruiting starts to unfold and reality sets in....

Lets give it a dozen games before we say who is gonna do what, who's gonna get PT and play where, given Jimbo's penchant for doing what defies logic all bets are off....

1.) All we're talking about here is rotations and a chance for top 5 finish in a down MAAC. We're not predicting world champions here.
2.) If I didn't throw this stuff out there every summer I'm pretty sure there would be next to zero basketball discussion either here or on MAAC board between March and October.

Yes, Jimmy could screw it all up with poor rotation choices and yes, these kids are young and may not avoid the PIG next year or end up as the next Siena greats. But what else is there to talk about?

yeah do what Indian said. No more talk. Come back in Nov. and let us all know who's gonna play/be good.