olddave
Team Captain
Posts: 2,665
Dislikes:
|
Post by olddave on Dec 30, 2016 8:33:32 GMT -5
Have to concur with MP, shit slides down hill and its coming from the top. It's a business people, like it or not and the buck stops at the top. They are the ones who manage control the kids. A player is going to tell the coach to F off with a semester remaining or go out and try to play through a crap play book. Say it again Ad, admin coach's all at fault. JO and other players in shape, conditioned better, also been saying it for years Siena strength conditions program sorely lacking. The last 7 abysmal years ( not just pointing out the athletic either) are clearly on the heads of the admin and old boys club, CLEAN HOUSE.
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,022
Dislikes:
|
Vermont
Dec 30, 2016 8:34:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gorvy on Dec 30, 2016 8:34:39 GMT -5
What is the point of blaming the players? I am not paying them, I am paying the head coach. The players don't select other players. The players don't decide who goes into a game and who doesn't come out when they have two fouls in the first half. The players don't schedule wacky guarantee tournaments and home games in glens falls. The players don't give out scholarship favors to their friends kids. The players do usually remain loyal to Siena throughout their lives, unlike most Siena coaches. In summary, I can't control who plays, but I can express displeasure about who coaches. So, I will remain loyal to the players who did stay four or five years playing for a middling coach in their one shot at d1 basketball but go ahead and lambaste them and the posters who defend them if it makes you feel better. Nothing will change until he is replaced though. How do you pay the head coach? You don't go to the games do you? The players get paid too. In D-1 athletics their performances get judged and critiqued. You guys want big time basketball, but with elementary school rules. JP may not doing his job well, but neither are some of the "stars" on the team. Coaches success usually depends on players performances. Of course the easiest thing to do is to blame the coach 100%. Except he's not missing the shots, turning the ball over or getting beat like a drum on man-to-man defense. I probably have paid less to jimmy patsos than you did to willie wooden this year, that is correct. Of course the point is a lot of fans will pay a lot more once he is gone. That's just a simple reality based on the declining ticket sales and $5 promotions. Sure the players on the court aren't getting it done. But you haven't answered the question-- what is the point of calling out specific players when they have no say in the future direction of the program? Do you still feel that patsos is the best choice to lead this program to its stated goals of maac championships and NCAA/nit success?
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,022
Dislikes:
|
Post by gorvy on Dec 30, 2016 8:38:42 GMT -5
What an insufferable ass, doesn't Syr have a board you can troll? Does Siena winning make your life better? Does Siena losing make your life better?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 8:58:12 GMT -5
What an insufferable ass, doesn't Syr have a board you can troll? Does Siena winning make your life better? Comparing Siena winning or losing to a life impacting event is ridiculous (sorry MTS) but it does impact how we enjoy the sport in total. When Siena wins or plays well but loses, optimism flourishes - when the opposite happens, as in our current death spiral downward, pessimism metastasizes - not as much fun watching other teams play with an eye to possible post-season play, seedings and matchups. The planned luncheon summit conference with the Big 4 today may produce some results but I'm not confident it will identify all of the "reasons" for the malaise evident on this team. Closed door meetings with not only the Big 4, but all players might be more productive. Not sure if JP could "sell" a no recrimination air it all session, let alone a dozen or more of them but it might be worth an attempt. One advantage might be gained from a "he talked to everyone" screen when he implements corrective actions without attribution to the source who might be seen as ratting out on one or more teammates. Something needs to change and I don't think it's as simple as just playing the young guys - that could be even more destructive based on what we are seeing already...
|
|
mjs72
Junior
Posts: 973
Dislikes:
|
Post by mjs72 on Dec 30, 2016 9:18:05 GMT -5
Looks like the visit from Prosper didn't help. I nominate Steve McCoy for the next one.
|
|
siena77
Sophomore
Posts: 617
Dislikes:
|
Vermont
Dec 30, 2016 9:39:56 GMT -5
Post by siena77 on Dec 30, 2016 9:39:56 GMT -5
AJ and Andy dodging call in bullets. Andy towing the company line defending JP. Yeah, I tried halfheartedly to call in--just not motivated to care that much anymore, unfortunately. Andy is putting a little too much of this on the players and too little on the coach. He's right--the players aren't playing with heart. But I would go back to my questions from last year, and the year before-- 1. How often are we obviously outcoached? Answer: too often, including last night, UAlbany, Hofstra, etc. 2. How do you compare the ball movement of our opponents (e.g., Vermont last night) and Siena? Answer: we look like a CYO team, everybody converging in 1 area, no spacing, no flow--while Vermont is well spaced & moving the ball around quickly. We've been watching the same damn movie for 7 years now. Will the last person leaving the TUC please turn off the lights?
|
|
siena77
Sophomore
Posts: 617
Dislikes:
|
Post by siena77 on Dec 30, 2016 9:42:42 GMT -5
|
|
siena77
Sophomore
Posts: 617
Dislikes:
|
Post by siena77 on Dec 30, 2016 9:48:03 GMT -5
I don't think Jimmy is doing a good job, BUT when are we going to hold some of the players accountable for missing shots they used to make? Getting rebounds they used to want? The 4 seniors are DONE in 10 weeks. You'd think they'd bring maximum effort every night and appreciate the finality of their careers. The WHOLE LEAGUE had us with 4 kids on the all-MAAC teams. Now, not one of them can play this game well? And it's all on the coach?? Sorry not buying it. Sure JP is to blame for a lot of things, but to watch people enable these men (yup, 22 is a man) decide not to give a 100% effort is on them, not the coach. Something happened in the last 10 months that's for sure, and I'm not claiming I know what it is, but if you all think it's one guys fault you're crazy. The coach is not setting up the team to be successful. Like in my business, and probably yours, Jimmy is supposed to be the leader, with a solid gameplan and a strategy to make the best use of his talent. If I have talented people but suppressed their best skills or don't make the best use of them, shame on me--and I lose my job. Same deal here.
|
|
|
Vermont
Dec 30, 2016 10:35:17 GMT -5
Post by cappy106 on Dec 30, 2016 10:35:17 GMT -5
in my opinion...injuries and discipline issues....continues to recruit Baltimore kids who come from inner city programs that are more freelance basketball then team orientated...as far as the coach...tries to cover up his weaknesses by playing the Rodney Dangerfield role and showing the kids historical places on road trips.....horrible coach ...makes mitch look like john wooden!
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,700
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Dec 30, 2016 10:41:04 GMT -5
in my opinion...injuries and discipline issues....continues to recruit Baltimore kids who come from inner city programs that are more freelance basketball then team orientated...as far as the coach...tries to cover up his weaknesses by playing the Rodney Dangerfield role and showing the kids historical places on road trips.....horrible coach ...makes mitch look like john wooden! Nothing to do with Baltimore or recruiting urban kids, basketball has changed over the last decade, kids want to run, the pound it inside, flex offense is old school. Play uptempo and turn these kids loose.
|
|
|
Vermont
Dec 30, 2016 10:51:02 GMT -5
Post by cappy106 on Dec 30, 2016 10:51:02 GMT -5
in my opinion...injuries and discipline issues....continues to recruit Baltimore kids who come from inner city programs that are more freelance basketball then team orientated...as far as the coach...tries to cover up his weaknesses by playing the Rodney Dangerfield role and showing the kids historical places on road trips.....horrible coach ...makes mitch look like john wooden! Nothing to do with Baltimore or recruiting urban kids, basketball has changed over the decade, kids want to run, the pound it inside, flex offense is old school. Play uptempo and turn these kids loose. turn the kids loose?.....can't shoot from outside 15 feet, make free throws or stop turning ball over....and oh by the way,..get out of bed or arrive on time for a team bus!
|
|
slim
Sophomore
Posts: 654
Dislikes:
|
Post by slim on Dec 30, 2016 11:22:31 GMT -5
in my opinion...injuries and discipline issues....continues to recruit Baltimore kids who come from inner city programs that are more freelance basketball then team orientated...as far as the coach...tries to cover up his weaknesses by playing the Rodney Dangerfield role and showing the kids historical places on road trips.....horrible coach ...makes mitch look like john wooden! Not true on Baltimore kids all the kids from that area came from private HS which is the Baltimore Catholic Leg. Nico, Fisher, Long all came from there. Very structure Bball. Lot kids doing well from that leg such as Phil Booth from Nova who was great in the National Championship game. He was Lavon HS teammate along with Jaylen Adams from St Bonnies who's first team In the A10. Most of those kids aren't inner city kids.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Vermont
Dec 30, 2016 11:39:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 11:39:25 GMT -5
I know you didn't mean it to be funny but it made me chuckle.
|
|
siena70
Freshman
Posts: 291
Dislikes:
|
Vermont
Dec 30, 2016 14:55:05 GMT -5
MTS likes this
Post by siena70 on Dec 30, 2016 14:55:05 GMT -5
I know you didn't mean it to be funny but it made me chuckle. Some people should just be pushed over the ledge??? How the Hell has Jimmy proved to be worthy of this huge contract extension? one CBI title over .500 + teams. Jimmy is not the only problem.
|
|
|
Vermont
Dec 30, 2016 15:29:22 GMT -5
Post by MTS on Dec 30, 2016 15:29:22 GMT -5
I know you didn't mean it to be funny but it made me chuckle. Some people should just be pushed over the ledge??? How the Hell has Jimmy proved to be worthy of this huge contract extension? one CBI title over .500 + teams. Jimmy is not the only problem. Yup. When Jimmy does get fired he will be the third coach Siena has fired in the past four coaches. Throwing Louis Orr out of the equation Siena will have fired four coaches out of six (Beyer, Lanier, Buonaguro, Patsos). Only Hewitt and McCaffery worked out. I think they also dodged a bullet that Orr left as I think he would not have worked out either. How does D'Arg get to pick another coach or even oversee the process? Siena needs a new head men's basketball coach and a new Athletic Director.
|
|