Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 6:05:23 GMT -5
Aside from the questions being raised about the effectiveness of staff as recruiters and the regional areas we seem to focus on, I believe there is another elephant in the room that might be visible to the parents/coaches of potential recruits. I'm talking about the appearance of driving kids off to make scholarships available on a continuing timeline. Any parent/coach advising a recruit would go through some level of due diligence that would cover at least one or two years and see it. The math doesn't add up and we all see that at least one player is being "encouraged" to get out of town yet again. Encouraging players to come on their own dime with a promise of a future ship "when one is available" is becoming a hallmark of our recruitment process. I realize this kind of stuff goes on at many programs but I don't think it's quite so visible or habitual as it seems to be here. The idea that kids should trust the Siena staff in anticipation of ships opening up gets harder to swallow when one sees two recruited walk-ons that have been promised $ when slots open! Having our best interior player paying his way while we are paying for a walk-on who barely sees the court can't be a selling point for us. I know a retort will point out that the kids that have "left" just weren't that good but that only amplifies the question as to why they were recruited in the first place.
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th24
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Post by th24 on Feb 24, 2016 6:34:46 GMT -5
Siena is about to have 20 win season! And we still have the Jimmy rants or recruiting rants! #GetALife #GettingOld
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Feb 24, 2016 7:35:28 GMT -5
Aside from the questions being raised about the effectiveness of staff as recruiters and the regional areas we seem to focus on, I believe there is another elephant in the room that might be visible to the parents/coaches of potential recruits. I'm talking about the appearance of driving kids off to make scholarships available on a continuing timeline. Any parent/coach advising a recruit would go through some level of due diligence that would cover at least one or two years and see it. The math doesn't add up and we all see that at least one player is being "encouraged" to get out of town yet again. Encouraging players to come on their own dime with a promise of a future ship "when one is available" is becoming a hallmark of our recruitment process. I realize this kind of stuff goes on at many programs but I don't think it's quite so visible or habitual as it seems to be here. The idea that kids should trust the Siena staff in anticipation of ships opening up gets harder to swallow when one sees two recruited walk-ons that have been promised $ when slots open! Having our best interior player paying his way while we are paying for a walk-on who barely sees the court can't be a selling point for us. I know a retort will point out that the kids that have "left" just weren't that good but that only amplifies the question as to why they were recruited in the first place. Very good statement. However there is always money available. Just look around the high ranking Ivy league does not offer scholarships, we all know that is BS. JO, has had a tough life, great kid, we will never know how much is he actually coming up with, if your creative kid gets a nice ride, and it doesn't have to be any current player. You think this little school that can doesn't think out of the box.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 8:03:45 GMT -5
Siena is about to have 20 win season! And we still have the Jimmy rants or recruiting rants! #GetALife #GettingOld Surprising put down coming from a strict constitutionalist like yourself. Do we waive our first amendment rights when it comes to a potential 20 win season for our head coach?
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th24
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Post by th24 on Feb 24, 2016 8:11:12 GMT -5
Your rants about Jimmy and the program do nothing to help the program! If anything it hurts the program because recruits , parents and coaches look at this blog!
#UseYourHead #ChillOut
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siena77
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Post by siena77 on Feb 24, 2016 8:45:57 GMT -5
Siena is about to have 20 win season! And we still have the Jimmy rants or recruiting rants! #GetALife #GettingOld Not a rant, a point of view. And one that makes sense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 8:52:48 GMT -5
Your rants about Jimmy and the program do nothing to help the program! If anything it hurts the program because recruits , parents and coaches look at this blog! #UseYourHead #ChillOut My post was anything but a "rant" which is defined as wild, impassioned shouting. My post was directed at the discussion that was touching on the effectiveness of our assistants in recruiting and I was merely touching on other things that might be at play ! OBTW I should have said hi the other night when I passed you and your lady friend at TUC ! My bad but you did look preoccupied !
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Feb 24, 2016 9:44:42 GMT -5
Siena isn't in a vacuum when it comes to kids leaving(or being run off). It doesn't make it right, but how many transfers were there last year? 100's. In todays day and age, kids want to play right away and when they don't, they are gone. You see very few kids, even on this level, that stick with the program, grow, improve their game and then play the last year or two..... and on the flip side, coaches are being paid a ton to win, now... so some hard decisions are made when they have failed at recruiting to a degree (having non D1 players on scholarship). I don't think high school coaches and players are as sensitive to players not getting their full 4 years at a school, because it happens all the time now and just as often the kids leaves on his own, vs being "forced" out.
Olddave, Ivy league is a completely different animal. And if a kid is recruited by a school for one second and then tries to use an academic or alternate scholarship, that counts towards the 13 scholarships allowed. It isn't as easy as "just give them money another way". JO and siena went through the ringer to get him to play this season, not something the school or program would want to deal with yearly.
we don't know what Gottfried of Huerter were told re: scholarships. you certainly can't promise them anything as you don't know what can happen with your roster year to year. They both come from families that can afford to pay for tuition, otherwise they would look elsewhere for a scholarship in hand, vs being a preferred walk on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 9:47:51 GMT -5
So now athletic scholarships are only for the financially strapped regardless of talent?
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 24, 2016 9:52:06 GMT -5
Your rants about Jimmy and the program do nothing to help the program! If anything it hurts the program because recruits , parents and coaches look at this blog! #UseYourHead #ChillOut Right they do look at this board and will see that we support the kids, wish them well, hold the staff and admin to a higher standard them most if not all programs recruiting them. When we talk about a kid not cutting it we also say we'd like the staff to help him find a better situation. ALL of this is MUCH better than what they'd get from 95% of the other programs out there! Furthermore, the majority of us far more often than not have a good read on whether or not a recruit has what it will take to be successful at Siena. Thus, if they see us saying good things they can have confidence that they'll have a good chance of succeeding and they we aren't well then they might be better off someplace else. This is my opinion, my perspective, based on the facts that I've seen and experienced with about 40 years of following the program. BTW, if a kid is so superficial, so vain that he makes his choice based on what is being said in social media and a message board he doesn't have the mettle to make it in a high profile D1 sport. #UseYourHead #FreeUsFromTheThoughtPolice
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Post by siena7127 on Feb 24, 2016 9:53:21 GMT -5
Playing devils advocate here:
What if they were not "promises" and they were told that if you come here and things work out, a 'ship may become available if earned.
The one thing I have heard about Jimmy is that he is very open with his players and recruiting. He lets them and the families know exactly where they stand and what he is thinking as a role for them.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 24, 2016 9:57:36 GMT -5
They were not "promises" they were told that if you come here and things work out, a 'ship may become available if earned. One thing I have heard about Jimmy is that he is very open with his players and recruiting. He lets them and the families know exactly where they stand and what he is thinking as a role for them. Unless you ARE JP, I guarantee you are not privy to every conversation JP has with recruits and what "promises" were made.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Feb 24, 2016 10:49:52 GMT -5
They were not "promises" they were told that if you come here and things work out, a 'ship may become available if earned. One thing I have heard about Jimmy is that he is very open with his players and recruiting. He lets them and the families know exactly where they stand and what he is thinking as a role for them. Unless you ARE JP, I guarantee you are not privy to every conversation JP has with recruits and what "promises" were made. Couldn't agree more, no one, not any of the supposed insiders here know what goes on between the coach and the perspective player. Siena 95 you make some excellent points, but I have a bridge to sell you if you don't think the Ivy leagues schools don't help their kids financially, look at the hockey programs. D1 athletics is a business not a moral love sit in.
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Feb 24, 2016 11:34:15 GMT -5
Unless you ARE JP, I guarantee you are not privy to every conversation JP has with recruits and what "promises" were made. Couldn't agree more, no one, not any of the supposed insiders here know what goes on between the coach and the perspective player. Siena 95 you make some excellent points, but I have a bridge to sell you if you don't think the Ivy leagues schools don't help their kids financially, look at the hockey programs. D1 athletics is a business not a moral love sit in. The Ivy league absolutely helps them, but they are not beholden to a 13 scholarship athletic limit... but they also can't just have 17 players on academic or merit scholarships, circumventing any roster limit, so they have their own rules in place, which is why i said they are a different animal. They are also some of the richest institutions in the country, so the financial aid(however it is drawn up) coming from endowments, etc, basically create athletic scholarships, even if they don't call it that. Some kids end up paying a small percentage of their tuition, but given the presitge of the schools, if they are given a 90% ride to harvard, some kids are OK covering that last 10%, as you are paying peanuts for an ivy league education.
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saints22
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Post by saints22 on Feb 24, 2016 12:33:58 GMT -5
Your rants about Jimmy and the program do nothing to help the program! If anything it hurts the program because recruits , parents and coaches look at this blog! #UseYourHead #ChillOut He's entitled to his opinion, th, as are you. He's also entitled to express that opinion, as you are with your opinions, including your response to MP's post, extreme though it may be. There was nothing abusive in the post. Just a statement about a situation that has been mentioned before, and that, I suspect, is a matter of concern to a number of people. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be expressed.
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