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Post by SaintsFan on Sept 18, 2015 10:53:18 GMT -5
No need to be down on the kid because of his offers. Patsos doesnt do high level recruiting battles. He obviously prefers the unearthed gem approach. I think everyone needs to adjust expectations regarding recruit rankings with patsos recruiting. Hes looking to find the diamond in the rough.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Sept 18, 2015 11:07:39 GMT -5
Sounds familiar Dad is a recball coaching legend Marc Brown's Dad Charlie was a playing and coaching legend Lightning strikes again I'll take a healthy version of Rakeem Brookins with a brain!
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Sept 18, 2015 11:58:09 GMT -5
No need to be down on the kid because of his offers. Patsos doesnt do high level recruiting battles. He obviously prefers the unearthed gem approach. I think everyone needs to adjust expectations regarding recruit rankings with patsos recruiting. Hes looking to find the diamond in the rough. Khalil Richard is exactly the level of player that programs at Siena's level are built on. Even the vaunted McCaffery didn't really do many high level recruiting battles. Most of the three-peat team was recruited against no one of note. The few times he did, he mostly lost. Ubiles and Basabe were among the few that had high offers and agreed to come. I think most here are overselling how recruiting has gone in the program's past. As it stands, Patsos has successfully recruited at least six current or future players on this team that had at least 1 A-10 offer. I'm not sure how much better than that you all are expecting. The six I can count are: Lavon Long Evan Fisher Willem Brandwijk Nico Clareth Kahlil Richard Kadeem Smithen How many more than that did Fran have during his tenure? I think it's time to let this particular topic go.
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Post by SaintsFan on Sept 19, 2015 4:17:01 GMT -5
No need to be down on the kid because of his offers. Patsos doesnt do high level recruiting battles. He obviously prefers the unearthed gem approach. I think everyone needs to adjust expectations regarding recruit rankings with patsos recruiting. Hes looking to find the diamond in the rough. Khalil Richard is exactly the level of player that programs at Siena's level are built on. Even the vaunted McCaffery didn't really do many high level recruiting battles. Most of the three-peat team was recruited against no one of note. The few times he did, he mostly lost. Ubiles and Basabe were among the few that had high offers and agreed to come. I think most here are overselling how recruiting has gone in the program's past. As it stands, Patsos has successfully recruited at least six current or future players on this team that had at least 1 A-10 offer. I'm not sure how much better than that you all are expecting. The six I can count are: Lavon Long Evan Fisher Willem Brandwijk Nico Clareth Kahlil Richard Kadeem Smithen How many more than that did Fran have during his tenure? I think it's time to let this particular topic go. First, we are saying roughly the same thing. Second, I wasnt comparing patsos and mccaffery. You are. But since you brought it up... Let's wait and see when even one of patsos is at the performance level of frans. There is no reason to remotely compare at this point. Let's get back to the reality that is today. Leave the past in the past
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Sept 19, 2015 5:51:44 GMT -5
Khalil Richard is exactly the level of player that programs at Siena's level are built on. Even the vaunted McCaffery didn't really do many high level recruiting battles. Most of the three-peat team was recruited against no one of note. The few times he did, he mostly lost. Ubiles and Basabe were among the few that had high offers and agreed to come. I think most here are overselling how recruiting has gone in the program's past. As it stands, Patsos has successfully recruited at least six current or future players on this team that had at least 1 A-10 offer. I'm not sure how much better than that you all are expecting. The six I can count are: Lavon Long Evan Fisher Willem Brandwijk Nico Clareth Kahlil Richard Kadeem Smithen How many more than that did Fran have during his tenure? I think it's time to let this particular topic go. First, we are saying roughly the same thing. Second, I wasnt comparing patsos and mccaffery. You are. But since you brought it up... Let's wait and see when even one of patsos is at the performance level of frans. There is no reason to remotely compare at this point. Let's get back to the reality that is today. Leave the past in the past In not so sure we're saying the same thing. Your statement was that Patsos doesn't do high level recruiting battles. I take that to mean you are claiming he doesn't recruit kids with competing offers from higher ranked conferences. I pointed out that's not the case. As for the comparison to McCaffrey, we both know that any criticism of Patsos recruiting here stems from the delusion that Fran was consistently recruiting high level players. The fact is both mostly recruited the same level of player. Patsos takes the occasional shot at a high major player too - see Kevin Huerter and Emmit Holt.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Sept 19, 2015 8:20:41 GMT -5
McCaffrey was basically a .500 coach before Siena. He happened to land four diamonds in the rough all on the same roster, give Patsos sometime. What McCaffrey did was equivalent to hitting Powerball.
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glen
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Post by glen on Sept 19, 2015 8:45:45 GMT -5
You can question whether Fran got lucky or made his own luck with Ronald/Alex/Edwin/Ryan. Ryan did have interest from PC but he would've had to go prep.
I'll say this, if Jimmy were to be involved with lots of high level kids and miss on most (as he/any MAAC coach would) then many here would be all over him for that too. Personally, if he can get mine coal and coach diamonds, I'm fine with that. I do want to see some glitter soon though :-)
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bigfan
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Post by bigfan on Sept 19, 2015 8:59:05 GMT -5
McCaffrey was basically a .500 coach before Siena. He happened to land four diamonds in the rough all on the same roster, give Patsos sometime. What McCaffrey did was equivalent to hitting Powerball. A lot of truth to this, not to diminish Fran's accomplishments. He was and is an outstanding coach. The truth is that we may never again see the accumulated talent that we enjoyed with the big three plus Kenny in those years.
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siena70
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Post by siena70 on Sept 19, 2015 9:01:22 GMT -5
Patsos is recruiting at the same level as he did at Loyala. His contacts are in MD, and , so far, he hasn't hired any assistants who have strong connections outside of Albany and MD.
Fran had a ton of connections in PA. Maybe Fran got lucky, but at least he tried to get higher level recruits than to just settle.
Fran's success was also due, to a lesser degree, in his preparedness, communication , and in game strategies, all of which are clearly better than JP's are , both then and now.
JP is doing what most people , including me, expected him to do. I had hoped that he would expand his recruitment and coaching after he got his "dream job". Unfortunately, I think JP knows that the administration at Siena is very weak and will tolerate a 500 coach for a very long time ( Just see Gina's record for how many years).
I wish I am wrong but unlike MTS and others I just can't drink the Kool Aid anymore.
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Post by saintsandeagles on Sept 19, 2015 10:13:06 GMT -5
Patsos is recruiting at the same level as he did at Loyala. His contacts are in MD, and , so far, he hasn't hired any assistants who have strong connections outside of Albany and MD. Fran had a ton of connections in PA. Maybe Fran got lucky, but at least he tried to get higher level recruits than to just settle. Fran's success was also due, to a lesser degree, in his preparedness, communication , and in game strategies, all of which are clearly better than JP's are , both then and now. JP is doing what most people , including me, expected him to do. I had hoped that he would expand his recruitment and coaching after he got his "dream job". Unfortunately, I think JP knows that the administration at Siena is very weak and will tolerate a 500 coach for a very long time ( Just see Gina's record for how many years). I wish I am wrong but unlike MTS and others I just can't drink the Kool Aid anymore. Sorry, but do you really think that Jimmy is content with going .500? Question his abilities and his tactics all you want, but Jimmy clearly hates losing. To suggest he is aiming for anything less than a MAAC championship is ridiculous.
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mjs72
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Post by mjs72 on Sept 19, 2015 10:30:28 GMT -5
Patsos is recruiting at the same level as he did at Loyala. His contacts are in MD, and , so far, he hasn't hired any assistants who have strong connections outside of Albany and MD. Fran had a ton of connections in PA. Maybe Fran got lucky, but at least he tried to get higher level recruits than to just settle. Fran's success was also due, to a lesser degree, in his preparedness, communication , and in game strategies, all of which are clearly better than JP's are , both then and now. JP is doing what most people , including me, expected him to do. I had hoped that he would expand his recruitment and coaching after he got his "dream job". Unfortunately, I think JP knows that the administration at Siena is very weak and will tolerate a 500 coach for a very long time ( Just see Gina's record for how many years). I wish I am wrong but unlike MTS and others I just can't drink the Kool Aid anymore. Sorry, but do you really think that Jimmy is content with going .500? Question his abilities and his tactics all you want, but Jimmy clearly hates losing. To suggest he is aiming for anything less than a MAAC championship is ridiculous. The new assistant appears to have connections in the Midwest and NE.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Sept 19, 2015 14:41:49 GMT -5
Patsos is recruiting at the same level as he did at Loyala. His contacts are in MD, and , so far, he hasn't hired any assistants who have strong connections outside of Albany and MD. Fran had a ton of connections in PA. Maybe Fran got lucky, but at least he tried to get higher level recruits than to just settle. Fran's success was also due, to a lesser degree, in his preparedness, communication , and in game strategies, all of which are clearly better than JP's are , both then and now. JP is doing what most people , including me, expected him to do. I had hoped that he would expand his recruitment and coaching after he got his "dream job". Unfortunately, I think JP knows that the administration at Siena is very weak and will tolerate a 500 coach for a very long time ( Just see Gina's record for how many years). I wish I am wrong but unlike MTS and others I just can't drink the Kool Aid anymore. Sorry, but do you really think that Jimmy is content with going .500? Question his abilities and his tactics all you want, but Jimmy clearly hates losing. To suggest he is aiming for anything less than a MAAC championship is ridiculous. I agree with Jimmy not satisfied with .500 or not winning MAAC. Just like Jeb Bush said, he doesn't question Obama's desire to help the country and that he truly cares about it and the people; it's just that Jeb has different approach. Same here with Jimmy and Fran. Both wanted to win here at Siena and both want what's good for Siena and it's fans; they just have a different style or way of getting there. Anyone suggest Jimmy doesn't care or doesn't want what's best for Siena doesn't have a clue. Question his style all you want but don't ever question his desire to win here at Siena.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2015 14:42:13 GMT -5
Patsos is recruiting at the same level as he did at Loyala. His contacts are in MD, and , so far, he hasn't hired any assistants who have strong connections outside of Albany and MD. Fran had a ton of connections in PA. Maybe Fran got lucky, but at least he tried to get higher level recruits than to just settle. Fran's success was also due, to a lesser degree, in his preparedness, communication , and in game strategies, all of which are clearly better than JP's are , both then and now. JP is doing what most people , including me, expected him to do. I had hoped that he would expand his recruitment and coaching after he got his "dream job". Unfortunately, I think JP knows that the administration at Siena is very weak and will tolerate a 500 coach for a very long time ( Just see Gina's record for how many years). I wish I am wrong but unlike MTS and others I just can't drink the Kool Aid anymore. Sorry, but do you really think that Jimmy is content with going .500? Question his abilities and his tactics all you want, but Jimmy clearly hates losing. To suggest he is aiming for anything less than a MAAC championship is ridiculous. I'm not as ornery as siena70 when he usually posts (he loves the administration at Siena) lol but I agree with him in that it is not 100% all about the recruiting, which I think he has done well so far. Patsos to me though definitely lacks in those three areas he mentioned and this from a Q&A with Tim Wilkin that bothers me the most: Q: How much do you hate losing? A: Losing doesn't bother me as long as we're playing hard, as long as we're competing. The guy I worked for (at Maryland), Gary Williams, hated to lose, period www.timesunion.com/maac/article/Tim-Wilkin-A-conversation-with-Siena-hoops-coach-6108198.php
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Post by MTS on Sept 19, 2015 14:52:02 GMT -5
I'm not a Jimmy Patsos kool-aid drinker Siena 70 - but I don't want to be constantly a negative nellie either. Jimmy got a solid A-/B+ in his first year and a D last year. I don't agree with many of his decisions (most notably Gottfried) but if you are going to be fair he is quietly acquiring some nice talent. Like I said it has taken a little longer than we would all like but I think he's getting Siena back as an annual MAAC threat.
Sienafan is right - you're not going to get a Basabe type of recruit unless you start going back to the NCAA tournament and doing some damage there. On paper, Nico, Wormley, Fisher and Richard look like pretty good signings. LaRose can serve a role. Smithen looks like a quality transfer without the baggage of a Cole. Long and Wright are two guys who are capable of being all MAAC players the next two years. Paige has the chance to be a decent role player and Brandwijk could potentially be a very good player.
No question this is a HUGE year for Jimmy and the entire season program (year 3 always is for the HC). No more excuses we should be in the top 4 (with or without JO) and contend for the MAAC title.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2015 15:23:27 GMT -5
Sorry, but do you really think that Jimmy is content with going .500? Question his abilities and his tactics all you want, but Jimmy clearly hates losing. To suggest he is aiming for anything less than a MAAC championship is ridiculous. I agree with Jimmy not satisfied with .500 or not winning MAAC. Just like Jeb Bush said, he doesn't question Obama's desire to help the country and that he truly cares about it and the people; it's just that Jeb has different approach. Same here with Jimmy and Fran. Both wanted to win here at Siena and both want what's good for Siena and it's fans; they just have a different style or way of getting there. Anyone suggest Jimmy doesn't care or doesn't want what's best for Siena doesn't have a clue. Question his style all you want but don't ever question his desire to win here at Siena. He said it himself in so many words in the past, Patsos cares more about the process then the end result. Does he want to win? Yes, is it his #1 priority? No....IMHOP.
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