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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 5:06:30 GMT -5
Let's not compare the teams as that was then and this is now. Top three in regular season, A MAAC championship at home, a 14 seed or higher and an upset in the first round of the NCAA's would satisfy me this year......... Hey, a guy can dream! I agree- no point in comparison- but I will say this, with the schedule we have this year almost no chance at 14 seed, unless some teams we are playing are much better than predicted Yes, the dreaming portion of the comment took the schedule into consideration, Ughhh, more like a 16.
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Post by Tony on Oct 22, 2014 5:09:21 GMT -5
I agree- no point in comparison- but I will say this, with the schedule we have this year almost no chance at 14 seed, unless some teams we are playing are much better than predicted Yes, the dreaming portion of the comment took the schedule into consideration, Ughhh, more like a 16. Well lets win the MAAC and then we can worry about that
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Oct 22, 2014 7:46:41 GMT -5
Sorry bad comparison-- Franklin had several dunks as a freshmen and Ubiles had even more. This Siena team is fun, but from an athleticism POV not even close to Fran's teams. Sorry cant find a video, but I'm sure they are out there, here is story about Franklin's 1st game and his two dunks. You have to remember PPC Siena fans have seen a lot of good players over the years.. those freshmen came within 90 seconds of winning the MAAC 4 straight years- Ubiles/Franklin and Moore is probably the greatest class in MAAC history . certainly in Siena history. This team reminds me a lot of Hewitts teams that were good, won a lot of games but because of lack of athleticism struggled in up games or NCAA games alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6368298Okay, but who else on that team was a freakish athlete. Doing this from memory, Hasbrouck, Haddix, Moore, Ryan and Tay Fisher were the other guys that got the majority of playing time. Outside of Hasbrouck, I don't think any of them ever dunked in a game.
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Post by SaintsFan on Oct 22, 2014 8:15:17 GMT -5
Sorry bad comparison-- Franklin had several dunks as a freshmen and Ubiles had even more. This Siena team is fun, but from an athleticism POV not even close to Fran's teams. Sorry cant find a video, but I'm sure they are out there, here is story about Franklin's 1st game and his two dunks. You have to remember PPC Siena fans have seen a lot of good players over the years.. those freshmen came within 90 seconds of winning the MAAC 4 straight years- Ubiles/Franklin and Moore is probably the greatest class in MAAC history . certainly in Siena history. This team reminds me a lot of Hewitts teams that were good, won a lot of games but because of lack of athleticism struggled in up games or NCAA games alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6368298Okay, but who else on that team was a freakish athlete. Doing this from memory, Hasbrouck, Haddix, Moore, Ryan and Tay Fisher were the other guys that got the majority of playing time. Outside of Hasbrouck, I don't think any of them ever dunked in a game. No one is saying the whole team was freakish athletes. Siena's been at its strongest when its had some athleticism on the floor. here are some players since 2000 who had varying abilities to finish at the rim but all had that instinct to get to the rim. Im sure ive missed some. OD Anosike Owen Wignot Trenity Burdine Davis Martens Clarence Jackson Alex Franklin Edwin Ubiles Denzel Yard Antoince Jordan Kojo Mensah Al Fisher Jack McClinton Tommy Mitchell Brent Sniezyk Justin Miller Paul Williams Gary Holle Andy Cavo Dwayne Archbold James Clinton Dale Taylor
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Oct 22, 2014 9:15:13 GMT -5
Okay, but who else on that team was a freakish athlete. Doing this from memory, Hasbrouck, Haddix, Moore, Ryan and Tay Fisher were the other guys that got the majority of playing time. Outside of Hasbrouck, I don't think any of them ever dunked in a game. No one is saying the whole team was freakish athletes. Siena's been at its strongest when its had some athleticism on the floor. here are some players since 2000 who had varying abilities to finish at the rim but all had that instinct to get to the rim. Im sure ive missed some. OD Anosike Owen Wignot Trenity Burdine Davis Martens Clarence Jackson Alex Franklin Edwin Ubiles Denzel Yard Antoince Jordan Kojo Mensah Al Fisher Jack McClinton Tommy Mitchell Brent Sniezyk, Justin Miller Paul Williams Gary Holle Andy Cavo Dwayne Archbold James Clinton Dale Taylor How many of them showed the ability to finish strong at the rim as freshman? Not many. White and Long both showed that they were able to finish and should only improve. As I recall, most of the posters had Bisping heading to D2 last year at this time ... I'm quite certainly that he showed the ability and willingness to mix it up. I absolutely disagree with you about Poole, who is an all maac player that is much more than the shooter he was touted to be. (In fact, if anything, he isn't as good a shooter as expected but plays a much better floor game) Personally, I think "athleticism" is overrated. It's great to see high flying guys who can dunk over anyone, but were guys like Elton Frazier or the kid from St Peters who went to the NCAA dunk contest really good basketball players? No, they weren't. Just about every D1 player is a great athlete (compared to the general population). Give me a team full of guys that play with great energy and intensity, play smart, have good basketball skills and willing to play as a team.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Oct 22, 2014 9:21:39 GMT -5
It doesn't really matter whether Lavon dunks, he finishes well near the rim. Maurice, on the other hand, would definitely benefit from throwing some dunks down this year since his shooting percentage was definitely hurt from missing a lot of chippies right near the hoop that hopefully this year turn into dunks. Same would go for Silas or Ogunyemi.
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Post by SaintsFan on Oct 22, 2014 9:28:12 GMT -5
No one is saying the whole team was freakish athletes. Siena's been at its strongest when its had some athleticism on the floor. here are some players since 2000 who had varying abilities to finish at the rim but all had that instinct to get to the rim. Im sure ive missed some. OD Anosike Owen Wignot Trenity Burdine Davis Martens Clarence Jackson Alex Franklin Edwin Ubiles Denzel Yard Antoince Jordan Kojo Mensah Al Fisher Jack McClinton Tommy Mitchell Brent Sniezyk, Justin Miller Paul Williams Gary Holle Andy Cavo Dwayne Archbold James Clinton Dale Taylor How many of them showed the ability to finish strong at the rim as freshman? Not many. White and Long both showed that they were able to finish and should only improve. As I recall, most of the posters had Bisping heading to D2 last year at this time ... I'm quite certainly that he showed the ability and willingness to mix it up. I absolutely disagree with you about Poole, who is an all maac player that is much more than the shooter he was touted to be. (In fact, if anything, he isn't as good a shooter as expected but plays a much better floor game) Personally, I think "athleticism" is overrated. It's great to see high flying guys who can dunk over anyone, but were guys like Elton Frazier or the kid from St Peters who went to the NCAA dunk contest really good basketball players? No, they weren't. Just about every D1 player is a great athlete (compared to the general population). Give me a team full of guys that play with great energy and intensity, play smart, have good basketball skills and willing to play as a team. The game has changed. If you don't have guys capable of getting their own shot/getting to the rim and creating contact you are behind the 8 ball from the start. Fran's recipe worked incredibly well. The rule changes being implemented are also going to work against slower footed/less athletic teams. All the bumping, holding etc worked in favor of those players who were slower/less athletic because they could hold their opponent/knock them off their cutting path etc. The game rules continue to change in favor of more athletic/quicker players. The less physicality is allowed it will favor the quicker more athletic players and create more and more foul problems for slower, less athletic teams and free points for the quicker more athletic teams. I don't mind a mix.... but I don't like having a team a bit lop sided to the slower, less athletic side. My own personal preference. If we had an explosive scoring wing added to this mix it would be just about all that is needed. Don't forget that speed and athleticism really pay dividends defensively as well.
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Post by greengold4ever on Oct 22, 2014 10:04:26 GMT -5
Okay, but who else on that team was a freakish athlete. Doing this from memory, Hasbrouck, Haddix, Moore, Ryan and Tay Fisher were the other guys that got the majority of playing time. Outside of Hasbrouck, I don't think any of them ever dunked in a game. No one is saying the whole team was freakish athletes. Siena's been at its strongest when its had some athleticism on the floor. here are some players since 2000 who had varying abilities to finish at the rim but all had that instinct to get to the rim. Im sure ive missed some. OD Anosike Owen Wignot Trenity Burdine Davis Martens Clarence Jackson Alex Franklin Edwin Ubiles Denzel Yard Antoince Jordan Kojo Mensah Al Fisher Jack McClinton Tommy Mitchell Brent Sniezyk Justin Miller Paul Williams Gary Holle Andy Cavo Dwayne Archbold James Clinton Dale Taylor ok, to be fair on that list.............................Wignot could get to rim but could never ever finish (small hands I believe)...........Burdine until his last half season of his oft-injured Siena career did nothing of note, least of which is being able to elevate on some very bad wheels......................Martens could certainly get off the ground, the problem is he had very bad hands, he & ball never arrived at the rim at the same time................Denzel Yard, dunked in workouts, that was about all we saw of him..................Al Fisher, got a few minutes as a frosh, not sure he ever dunked.................Brent, well he did have some dunks, but it would have to be no one around variety, just too clumsy with poor hands (his best was the catching in air reverse against Cuse though)...............Paul Williams (not that smallish singer/song writer from the 60'-70's), was barely a thought on the bench let alone dunker....................James Clinton finally woke up during that miracle run in 2002 under Lanier, before that he was in hibernation way too long to do anything..................Dale Taylor, real nice guy, never played, never dunked in a game, in fact his highlight was making a 3pter to end the game in a blowout vs. Iona.................
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 10:06:57 GMT -5
Kyle Downey dunked I think twice in MB2. #eliteathlete.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Oct 23, 2014 9:29:06 GMT -5
Sorry bad comparison-- Franklin had several dunks as a freshmen and Ubiles had even more. This Siena team is fun, but from an athleticism POV not even close to Fran's teams. Sorry cant find a video, but I'm sure they are out there, here is story about Franklin's 1st game and his two dunks. You have to remember PPC Siena fans have seen a lot of good players over the years.. those freshmen came within 90 seconds of winning the MAAC 4 straight years- Ubiles/Franklin and Moore is probably the greatest class in MAAC history . certainly in Siena history. This team reminds me a lot of Hewitts teams that were good, won a lot of games but because of lack of athleticism struggled in up games or NCAA games alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6368298Well several Siena fans told me Franklin was not dunking freshman year. So I will take their version over yours here. Unless you can produce the video. I did not bring him up to compare. This is Patsos' team not Fran's we have players becoming themselves not a team from the past. It is a fact that freshman esp on the MM level are not dunking at a high rate. Not many freshmen are even playing much usually. The most athletic players are usually not at MMs and if they have the potential and work ethic the sky is the limit
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 9:33:05 GMT -5
Sorry bad comparison-- Franklin had several dunks as a freshmen and Ubiles had even more. This Siena team is fun, but from an athleticism POV not even close to Fran's teams. Sorry cant find a video, but I'm sure they are out there, here is story about Franklin's 1st game and his two dunks. You have to remember PPC Siena fans have seen a lot of good players over the years.. those freshmen came within 90 seconds of winning the MAAC 4 straight years- Ubiles/Franklin and Moore is probably the greatest class in MAAC history . certainly in Siena history. This team reminds me a lot of Hewitts teams that were good, won a lot of games but because of lack of athleticism struggled in up games or NCAA games alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6368298Well several Siena fans told me Franklin was not dunking freshman year. So I will take their version over yours here. Unless you can produce the video. I did not bring him up to compare. This is Patsos' team not Fran's we have players becoming themselves not a team from the past. It is a fact that freshman esp on the MM level are not dunking at a high rate. Not many freshmen are even playing much usually. The most athletic players are usually not at MMs and if they have the potential and work ethic the sky is the limit You're relying on word of mouth over an article from the Mark Singelais before Mark Singelais? Says right there... 2 dunks. First game.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Oct 23, 2014 9:53:49 GMT -5
alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6368298Ok SF I read the article. But the statement of Siena Fans about Franklin was that he did not dunk much as a freshman. I did not hear never but it was clear that he got much better by senior year I also see the similarities of Franklin and Long as well as the differences. Their impact on Siena basketball wont be the same because of those differences.
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Post by MTS on Oct 23, 2014 11:21:26 GMT -5
alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6368298Ok SF I read the article. But the statement of Siena Fans about Franklin was that he did not dunk much as a freshman. I did not hear never but it was clear that he got much better by senior year I also see the similarities of Franklin and Long as well as the differences. Their impact on Siena basketball wont be the same because of those differences. Lavon is Lavon. I don't think he fits any one great Siena player completely but rather skills of many different past stars. He has some Ubiles, Franklin and Haddix in him. But he is just a real good BASKETBALL player regardless of position. He has all of the intangibles you want and is very heady and versatile. By the time he graduates from Siena he'll be high on the all-time scoring and rebounding list for sure and hopefully on the all-time wins list as well. He is a gamer.
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Post by MTS on Oct 23, 2014 11:27:54 GMT -5
Yes, the dreaming portion of the comment took the schedule into consideration, Ughhh, more like a 16. Well lets win the MAAC and then we can worry about that Anything we do "nationally" this year would be a big surprise and a major "bonus". Remember this year is still year two of the rebuild. Winning the MAAC (regular season and postseason) is the goal. If we do that I'll gladly take the 15 seed. It would be great just to see the program get back to the NCAAs. Only losing Poole as a major contributor would set the stage for 2015-2016. It would be a great experience for the returning players just to have NCAA tournament experience going forward. And who knows some of the teams on Siena's OOC schedule could surprise and be better than predicted thus increasing the RPI/SOS. We can't afford to overlook anyone or we'll get beat!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 11:48:23 GMT -5
alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6368298Ok SF I read the article. But the statement of Siena Fans about Franklin was that he did not dunk much as a freshman. I did not hear never but it was clear that he got much better by senior year I also see the similarities of Franklin and Long as well as the differences. Their impact on Siena basketball wont be the same because of those differences. Lavon is Lavon. I don't think he fits any one great Siena player completely but rather skills of many different past stars. He has some Ubiles, Franklin and Haddix in him. But he is just a real good BASKETBALL player regardless of position. He has all of the intangibles you want and is very heady and versatile. By the time he graduates from Siena he'll be high on the all-time scoring and rebounding list for sure and hopefully on the all-time wins list as well. He is a gamer. How high? Brookins high or Brown high?
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