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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 4:39:59 GMT -5
I hope the kid has learned a few lessons over the last two years and is serious about getting his act together AND keeping it that way. Sounds like the academics might not be a concern. I am most concerned about the possibility of his reactivating old friendships with local kids that might not be the best role models for him. Jimmy has to make sure the kid is quickly assimilated into the team and that he wants to be on campus with them rather than heading off campus for who knows what. Saw that happen with Jarming White - his local "friends" would be waiting outside the ARC after practice for him and he'd head off for the evening. I doubt they were all going to help him study!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 5:10:16 GMT -5
Sienafan- did you catch the tweet today from Siena about Jimmy's APR the past four years at Loyola? Something along the lines of being top 10% in the nation ... I know you carry the flag for us over at ass clown central but this is not IJC, Buie will not diminish the value of your degree from Siena and in reality PW dug such a hole that it is necessary. That is impressive. It's also hard to compare, because Loyola has high academic standards, which is 1 reason they are moving to the Patriot and 1 reason Patsos didn't want to stay there. I'm not saying he will put Siena in jeopardy, but I don't think he will help Siena's numbers there, either.
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Post by greenblood on Jun 7, 2013 7:38:31 GMT -5
Do you guys really think Jimmy would bring Buie into the program if he thought he was a ticking time bomb? Of course there's some risk but it is a calculated risk. I'm sure Jimmy has told Taran that he will not put up with any BS. This is where the coaching comes in. Fran benched Ubiles before his academics could cost him games or before the NCAA stepped in. The PW let Brookins and Burdine imploded. You think it's an accident what happened with them? I'm not saying they don't deserve blame because they certainly do but these are young guys - they need structure and discipline and both of them got neither. Yes, Fran benched Ubiles once or twice, but never addressed all the other issues, including academics, missing meetings, disappearing from campus for hours/days. The few disciplinary actions were for show, don't kid yourself. It's not my calculated risk with this kid, it's Patsos'. Fool someone once, shame on you, fool someone twice, shame on them. If we become the third fool in his path after dismissing two problem cases from the program, well...you fill in the blank.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 7, 2013 10:24:52 GMT -5
Sienafan- did you catch the tweet today from Siena about Jimmy's APR the past four years at Loyola? Something along the lines of being top 10% in the nation ... I know you carry the flag for us over at ass clown central but this is not IJC, Buie will not diminish the value of your degree from Siena and in reality PW dug such a hole that it is necessary. Patsos didn't recruit kids like Buie at Loyola. This isn't an academic issue, it's a character issue. Patsos did not recruit kids with criminal backgrounds at Loyola. I dear say someone like Buie doesn't make it past admissions at Loyola regardless of his grades. Buie has not been able to last more than a year at two different schools so far. I don't like the odds that he actually graduates from his third destination, and I don't want Siena to be the one that takes the APR hit for that. You are welcome to your opinion that recruiting like this is necessary to undo the damage done by the prior coach. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. The Siena I graduated from did not subscribe to a philosophy whereby the end justifies the means.
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Post by clickclack on Jun 7, 2013 10:43:25 GMT -5
At least Buies "hardship" request will be legit unlike 90% of the other crap that's going on in the D-1 transfer world. Let's look at it from the kids POV. This is his LAST chance.....period. He gets the boot from Siena, his basketball career is over. Maybe that reality will make this kid turn his life around!? IMO a kid should be able to transfer and play wherever he wants without sitting a year...a coach can leave for a perceived better situation but a kid looking out for himself can't? Look at the transfer rates in hoops? Unless there is OBVIOUS and overt tampering let the kids go where the feel they can be a bigger impact...ESPECIALLY if the school he's leaving has no plans for the kid or doesn't care if he goes... NCAA is corrupt...just let the kids play. Buie should just play if Siena want's him...
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Post by DelmartianEd on Jun 7, 2013 10:51:08 GMT -5
... has not been able to last more than a year at two different schools so far. I don't like the odds that he actually graduates from his third destination, and I don't want Siena to be the one that takes the APR hit for that. He's been at Hofstra for two years (he had to redshirt) and is reported to have a 3.0 GPA. He'll have two years of scholarship eligibility if he gets a hardship waiver and comes to Siena.
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Post by freeharrymoore on Jun 7, 2013 11:38:44 GMT -5
IMO a kid should be able to transfer and play wherever he wants without sitting a year...a coach can leave for a perceived better situation but a kid looking out for himself can't? Look at the transfer rates in hoops? Unless there is OBVIOUS and overt tampering let the kids go where the feel they can be a bigger impact...ESPECIALLY if the school he's leaving has no plans for the kid or doesn't care if he goes... NCAA is corrupt...just let the kids play. Buie should just play if Siena want's him... This would crush non-BCS schools. Any time an under recruited kid developed into a really good player, you'd have recruiting "handlers" reaching out to them on behalf of BCS schools. It would be an absolute mess. Let's not forget: coaches are PROFESSIONALS with college degrees--and in some cases advanced degrees. Student athletes are AMATEURS. It is a totally different standard.
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Post by Tony on Jun 7, 2013 11:43:28 GMT -5
Patsos didn't recruit kids like Buie at Loyola. This isn't an academic issue, it's a character issue. Patsos did not recruit kids with criminal backgrounds at Loyola. At Loyola Patsos recruited Brian Rudolph-- who was a convicted felon and ended up graduating from Loyola
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Post by clickclack on Jun 7, 2013 11:43:50 GMT -5
IMO a kid should be able to transfer and play wherever he wants without sitting a year...a coach can leave for a perceived better situation but a kid looking out for himself can't? Look at the transfer rates in hoops? Unless there is OBVIOUS and overt tampering let the kids go where the feel they can be a bigger impact...ESPECIALLY if the school he's leaving has no plans for the kid or doesn't care if he goes... NCAA is corrupt...just let the kids play. Buie should just play if Siena want's him... This would crush non-BCS schools. Any time an under recruited kid developed into a really good player, you'd have recruiting "handlers" reaching out to them on behalf of BCS schools. It would be an absolute mess. Let's not forget: coaches are PROFESSIONALS with college degrees--and in some cases advanced degrees. Student athletes are AMATEURS. It is a totally different standard. Understood...I'm not saying a free-for-all...but if a student notifies his school that he'd like to transfer here...and the school agrees and says go ahead...why should a kid sit?
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 7, 2013 12:08:41 GMT -5
Patsos didn't recruit kids like Buie at Loyola. This isn't an academic issue, it's a character issue. Patsos did not recruit kids with criminal backgrounds at Loyola. At Loyola Patsos recruited Brian Rudolph-- who was a convicted felon and ended up graduating from Loyola Rudolph got into a fight and what made it a felony was that he used a knife. The difference between Rudolph and Buie is that Rudolph's situation was an aberration. He was an otherwise good kid that made one bad mistake in his life. I can see giving a kid like that a second chance. Buie on the other hand, is a repeat offender - he displays a pretty consistent pattern of bad behavior. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to have to worry about locking up my iPhone around my teammates. Everyone was all over Brookinsand wanted him out for stealing a credit card, but Buie stealing a smartphone or two appears to be forgivable. I don't get it.
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Post by Tony on Jun 7, 2013 12:12:46 GMT -5
For the most part Patsos didn't recruit Saints at loyola.. many of his transfers had checkered pasts-- two good thing about Jimmy is 1) they almost always graduated from Loyola 2) he never recruited a team full of 2nd chance kids. Lets hope Jimmy is right on Taran- because barring something unusual- Taran will become part of the Siena team. He has a legit reason for the hardship waiver and I dont think hofstra will stand in way
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 7, 2013 12:20:07 GMT -5
... has not been able to last more than a year at two different schools so far. I don't like the odds that he actually graduates from his third destination, and I don't want Siena to be the one that takes the APR hit for that. He's been at Hofstra for two years (he had to redshirt) and is reported to have a 3.0 GPA. He'll have two years of scholarship eligibility if he gets a hardship waiver and comes to Siena. I was referring to playing years, but technically you are right, he was at Hofstra 2 years counting the redshirt. Still, with Brookins and Burdine already on the books, Siena's graduation rates and APR go in the shitter if Buie flames out too. I might have been more inclined to take a chance on Buie if it weren't for the fact that Siena already lost those two. But with them already gone, another non-graduating player will not go so well for Siena. It's too risky.
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 7, 2013 12:26:06 GMT -5
For the most part Patsos didn't recruit Saints at loyola.. many of his transfers had checkered pasts-- two good thing about Jimmy is 1) they almost always graduated from Loyola 2) he never recruited a team full of 2nd chance kids. Lets hope Jimmy is right on Taran- because barring something unusual- Taran will become part of the Siena team. He has a legit reason for the hardship waiver and I dont think hofstra will stand in way We all have checkered pasts to some extent or another - most of us have simply been fortunate enough to never get caught making our poor choices. Most of us also usually learn from our mistakes and don't repeat them. It's the ones who don't learn and keep making the same poor choices over and over again that concern me. We'd be all over Iona for taking a kid like this. But when Siena does it, suddenly it's okay just this once. SMH.
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Post by billmurray on Jun 7, 2013 12:39:05 GMT -5
To play the devil's advocate, we don't know the academic standing of Brookins when he left. If he was in good standing he is not a liability against the APR rating. Burdine's academic status may be easier to guess at, but we don't have any facts that say he was not in good standing, so again we do not know the impact of his departure from the team or for that matter the official reason of his removal from the team. It seems academic standing is not an issue with Buie, so even if he ends up not staying until graduation, if he is in good academic standing he would not be a liability if he were to leave (if he is actually coming, again a fact we do not yet have confirmed)
As for the Siena degree being diminished, if this is an issue it has gone by the wayside long ago with Richie Furr (sp), Ricky Williams and no doubt others, so for those shocked by the recent turn of events, if the degree has withstood these past activities, it will endure the current ones as well. Let's not be holier than thou on this issue. Siena is not the UNLV of old, and never has been and will not be in the future, even if Buie is accepted.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 18:10:45 GMT -5
He's been at Hofstra for two years (he had to redshirt) and is reported to have a 3.0 GPA. He'll have two years of scholarship eligibility if he gets a hardship waiver and comes to Siena. I was referring to playing years, but technically you are right, he was at Hofstra 2 years counting the redshirt. Still, with Brookins and Burdine already on the books, Siena's graduation rates and APR go in the shitter if Buie flames out too. I might have been more inclined to take a chance on Buie if it weren't for the fact that Siena already lost those two. But with them already gone, another non-graduating player will not go so well for Siena. It's too risky. I'm not exactly sure why you are so sure Brookins and Burdine won't graduate. There are plenty of schools ( D1, D2, NAIA) that will bring them in for basketball and help them graduate. Both have already been students 3 years, how you assume they won't graduate is beyond me. On a related topic though, did Edwin graduate yet?
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