indian82
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Post by indian82 on Jun 14, 2022 12:34:24 GMT -5
Interesting, just saw that two other Turkish players committed to D1 programs this week (Jacksonville and Northern Iowa), might be a trend? The kid going to UNI played in the same Turkish league with slightly worse numbers than Siena’s recruit. The UNI recruit is bigger but also a year older. Not sure what it means, just passing along info. Thanks - good to see some hoops talk here. And potentially optimistic talk as well.
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OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
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Post by OneIndian on Jun 15, 2022 8:17:54 GMT -5
Interesting, just saw that two other Turkish players committed to D1 programs this week (Jacksonville and Northern Iowa), might be a trend? The kid going to UNI played in the same Turkish league with slightly worse numbers than Siena’s recruit. The UNI recruit is bigger but also a year older. Not sure what it means, just passing along info. UNI … great program, established coach, recruiting the great land of Turkey. Wonder if their fans think the coach has mailed it in and is trying tor D2??? Looking at NI’s board I wouldn’t say they were overly enamored. Read comments like; not impressed, looks stiff, hope he can contribute, maybe a 9th guy, maybe we can get 7 min out of him, is he walk-on, & there were also positive comments; he’ll be ok, decent shooter, decent passer, talent available world-wide etc… mixed in. They appear to be a bit more civil over there 😉 but overall theme was similar to here, some optimistic and those questioning whether he’s a MM player.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 15, 2022 8:58:52 GMT -5
Kid can really pass though!!
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jun 15, 2022 9:26:49 GMT -5
UNI … great program, established coach, recruiting the great land of Turkey. Wonder if their fans think the coach has mailed it in and is trying tor D2??? Looking at NI’s board I wouldn’t say they were overly enamored. Read comments like; not impressed, looks stiff, hope he can contribute, maybe a 9th guy, maybe we can get 7 min out of him, is he walk-on, & there were also positive comments; he’ll be ok, decent shooter, decent passer, talent available world-wide etc… mixed in. They appear to be a bit more civil over there 😉 but overall theme was similar to here, some optimistic and those questioning whether he’s a MM player. I’ve never had an issue with people questioning Tekin. Shit, I have my doubts!! The issue is with the idiots who think taking a European means Carm has mailed it in or has no clue or any of the other ridiculous comments made my a segment of this board. All for a coach who has won two regular season titles, 70% of his MAAC games, and never finished outside the top 3 of the conference. The criticism by that contingent has been too harsh and in my view, rather unfair.
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$cott
Assistant Coach
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Post by $cott on Jun 15, 2022 9:57:10 GMT -5
Looking at NI’s board I wouldn’t say they were overly enamored. Read comments like; not impressed, looks stiff, hope he can contribute, maybe a 9th guy, maybe we can get 7 min out of him, is he walk-on, & there were also positive comments; he’ll be ok, decent shooter, decent passer, talent available world-wide etc… mixed in. They appear to be a bit more civil over there 😉 but overall theme was similar to here, some optimistic and those questioning whether he’s a MM player. I’ve never had an issue with people questioning Tekin. Shit, I have my doubts!! The issue is with the idiots who think taking a European means Carm has mailed it in or has no clue or any of the other ridiculous comments made my a segment of this board. All for a coach who has won two regular season titles, 70% of his MAAC games, and never finished outside the top 3 of the conference. The criticism by that contingent has been too harsh and in my view, rather unfair. Is it unfair though? I agree that some of the criticism has gone too far but the first two seasons were with Jalen Pickett and Manny Camper and once Carm had his handpicked team he did manage 3rd in the MAAC but with a KenPom close to 300 most of the year and a first round exit to the 11 seed. If that is how we are measuring success in this program then I'm not on board. Now we are facing year 4 and his weakest recruiting class on paper. In that stretch Carm has gone from answering questions on this board to completely turning his back on the fanbase and blatantly lying about the Aidan Carpenter situation. There is a complete lack of transparency and trust right now between Carm and the season ticket holders. This is a fanbase that was recently burnt by a CBI championship and all sorts of excitement at the start of the Patsos era that turned into bitter disappointment by the end. I really hope we aren't on our way to getting burnt again and the fear of that is why so many are on edge. It would go a long way if Carm simply reached out to the fans and spoke about his rationale around this recruiting class. Whether or not his rationale proves right or wrong in the long run, just speaking up and explaining his thinking would go a long way towards starting to build back that trust.
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Post by hardwood on Jun 15, 2022 10:11:26 GMT -5
I’ve never had an issue with people questioning Tekin. Shit, I have my doubts!! The issue is with the idiots who think taking a European means Carm has mailed it in or has no clue or any of the other ridiculous comments made my a segment of this board. All for a coach who has won two regular season titles, 70% of his MAAC games, and never finished outside the top 3 of the conference. The criticism by that contingent has been too harsh and in my view, rather unfair. Is it unfair though? I agree that some of the criticism has gone too far but the first two seasons were with Jalen Pickett and Manny Camper and once Carm had his handpicked team he did manage 3rd in the MAAC but with a KenPom close to 300 most of the year and a first round exit to the 11 seed. If that is how we are measuring success in this program then I'm not on board. Now we are facing year 4 and his weakest recruiting class on paper. In that stretch Carm has gone from answering questions on this board to completely turning his back on the fanbase and blatantly lying about the Aidan Carpenter situation. There is a complete lack of transparency and trust right now between Carm and the season ticket holders. This is a fanbase that was recently burnt by a CBI championship and all sorts of excitement at the start of the Patsos era that turned into bitter disappointment by the end. I really hope we aren't on our way to getting burnt again and the fear of that is why so many are on edge. It would go a long way if Carm simply reached out to the fans and spoke about his rationale around this recruiting class. Whether or not his rationale proves right or wrong in the long run, just speaking up and explaining his thinking would go a long way towards starting to build back that trust. Didn’t he already do that with his comments about the portal?
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$cott
Assistant Coach
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Post by $cott on Jun 15, 2022 10:14:01 GMT -5
Is it unfair though? I agree that some of the criticism has gone too far but the first two seasons were with Jalen Pickett and Manny Camper and once Carm had his handpicked team he did manage 3rd in the MAAC but with a KenPom close to 300 most of the year and a first round exit to the 11 seed. If that is how we are measuring success in this program then I'm not on board. Now we are facing year 4 and his weakest recruiting class on paper. In that stretch Carm has gone from answering questions on this board to completely turning his back on the fanbase and blatantly lying about the Aidan Carpenter situation. There is a complete lack of transparency and trust right now between Carm and the season ticket holders. This is a fanbase that was recently burnt by a CBI championship and all sorts of excitement at the start of the Patsos era that turned into bitter disappointment by the end. I really hope we aren't on our way to getting burnt again and the fear of that is why so many are on edge. It would go a long way if Carm simply reached out to the fans and spoke about his rationale around this recruiting class. Whether or not his rationale proves right or wrong in the long run, just speaking up and explaining his thinking would go a long way towards starting to build back that trust. Didn’t he already do that with his comments about the portal? I think he burnt more bridges than he built with those comments......
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jun 15, 2022 10:28:39 GMT -5
I’ve never had an issue with people questioning Tekin. Shit, I have my doubts!! The issue is with the idiots who think taking a European means Carm has mailed it in or has no clue or any of the other ridiculous comments made my a segment of this board. All for a coach who has won two regular season titles, 70% of his MAAC games, and never finished outside the top 3 of the conference. The criticism by that contingent has been too harsh and in my view, rather unfair. Is it unfair though? I agree that some of the criticism has gone too far but the first two seasons were with Jalen Pickett and Manny Camper and once Carm had his handpicked team he did manage 3rd in the MAAC but with a KenPom close to 300 most of the year and a first round exit to the 11 seed. If that is how we are measuring success in this program then I'm not on board. Now we are facing year 4 and his weakest recruiting class on paper. In that stretch Carm has gone from answering questions on this board to completely turning his back on the fanbase and blatantly lying about the Aidan Carpenter situation. There is a complete lack of transparency and trust right now between Carm and the season ticket holders. This is a fanbase that was recently burnt by a CBI championship and all sorts of excitement at the start of the Patsos era that turned into bitter disappointment by the end. I really hope we aren't on our way to getting burnt again and the fear of that is why so many are on edge. It would go a long way if Carm simply reached out to the fans and spoke about his rationale around this recruiting class. Whether or not his rationale proves right or wrong in the long run, just speaking up and explaining his thinking would go a long way towards starting to build back that trust. Jalen Pickett only came to Siena because of Carm. Manny Camper averaged 6 points per game before Carm. Carm has recruited Jordan King (all MAAC), Stormo (will be preseason All-MAAC), Anthony Gaines (all MAAC), Colby Rogers (all MAAC), Jared Billups (all Rookie) and Javian McCollum (who we all agree is trending towards all MAAC). That’s, on average, two all league recruits per year. Members of this board pick and choose what to get mad about based on what suits them. If Carm had went into the media and said Aidan had quit on the team and we didn’t want him around (which we didn’t), fans would have said he was throwing the kid under the bus. If he tells fans the real reason Colby Rogers wanted to leave or the reason he had to fire Marcus King, fans will think it’s sour grapes. If he tells us who he’s recruiting and then we miss on those kids, he gets killed for losing a recruit to _____. He is damned one way or another because a segment of this board has unrealistic expectations. Complain about “lack of transparency” if you wish. But there’s some degree of trust Carm has earned by winning at the rate we have for the last three years. If he goes 8-24 this year, by all means, pile on. But when the “bad” year included finishing 3rd and going 3-1 against the teams that finished first and second, I think I’ll live.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jun 15, 2022 10:31:04 GMT -5
Didn’t he already do that with his comments about the portal? I think he burnt more bridges than he built with those comments...... “I want transparency!!!!” *guy says something I disagree with* “Why is Carm burning bridges? ??”
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Quackman
Team Captain
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Post by Quackman on Jun 15, 2022 10:39:06 GMT -5
Is it unfair though? I agree that some of the criticism has gone too far but the first two seasons were with Jalen Pickett and Manny Camper and once Carm had his handpicked team he did manage 3rd in the MAAC but with a KenPom close to 300 most of the year and a first round exit to the 11 seed. If that is how we are measuring success in this program then I'm not on board. Now we are facing year 4 and his weakest recruiting class on paper. In that stretch Carm has gone from answering questions on this board to completely turning his back on the fanbase and blatantly lying about the Aidan Carpenter situation. There is a complete lack of transparency and trust right now between Carm and the season ticket holders. This is a fanbase that was recently burnt by a CBI championship and all sorts of excitement at the start of the Patsos era that turned into bitter disappointment by the end. I really hope we aren't on our way to getting burnt again and the fear of that is why so many are on edge. It would go a long way if Carm simply reached out to the fans and spoke about his rationale around this recruiting class. Whether or not his rationale proves right or wrong in the long run, just speaking up and explaining his thinking would go a long way towards starting to build back that trust. Jalen Pickett only came to Siena because of Carm. Manny Camper averaged 6 points per game before Carm. Carm has recruited Jordan King (all MAAC), Stormo (will be preseason All-MAAC), Anthony Gaines (all MAAC), Colby Rogers (all MAAC), Jared Billups (all Rookie) and Javian McCollum (who we all agree is trending towards all MAAC). That’s, on average, two all league recruits per year. Members of this board pick and choose what to get mad about based on what suits them. If Carm had went into the media and said Aidan had quit on the team and we didn’t want him around (which we didn’t), fans would have said he was throwing the kid under the bus. If he tells fans the real reason Colby Rogers wanted to leave or the reason he had to fire Marcus King, fans will think it’s sour grapes. If he tells us who he’s recruiting and then we miss on those kids, he gets killed for losing a recruit to _____. He is damned one way or another because a segment of this board has unrealistic expectations. Complain about “lack of transparency” if you wish. But there’s some degree of trust Carm has earned by winning at the rate we have for the last three years. If he goes 8-24 this year, by all means, pile on. But when the “bad” year included finishing 3rd and going 3-1 against the teams that finished first and second, I think I’ll live. I’d add one thing, Siena started last year monumentally bad. Historically bad. And there is certainly room for criticism for how bad they started. But then they turned it around to finish where they did. Sorry, but that seems like some good coaching to me.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jun 15, 2022 10:42:21 GMT -5
Jalen Pickett only came to Siena because of Carm. Manny Camper averaged 6 points per game before Carm. Carm has recruited Jordan King (all MAAC), Stormo (will be preseason All-MAAC), Anthony Gaines (all MAAC), Colby Rogers (all MAAC), Jared Billups (all Rookie) and Javian McCollum (who we all agree is trending towards all MAAC). That’s, on average, two all league recruits per year. Members of this board pick and choose what to get mad about based on what suits them. If Carm had went into the media and said Aidan had quit on the team and we didn’t want him around (which we didn’t), fans would have said he was throwing the kid under the bus. If he tells fans the real reason Colby Rogers wanted to leave or the reason he had to fire Marcus King, fans will think it’s sour grapes. If he tells us who he’s recruiting and then we miss on those kids, he gets killed for losing a recruit to _____. He is damned one way or another because a segment of this board has unrealistic expectations. Complain about “lack of transparency” if you wish. But there’s some degree of trust Carm has earned by winning at the rate we have for the last three years. If he goes 8-24 this year, by all means, pile on. But when the “bad” year included finishing 3rd and going 3-1 against the teams that finished first and second, I think I’ll live. I’d add one thing, Siena started last year monumentally bad. Historically bad. And there is certainly room for criticism for how bad they started. But then they turned it around to finish where they did. Sorry, but that seems like some good coaching to me. I’ll still assert that we had a chance in AC if AG doesn’t blow an ACL. We had SPU’s number.
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$cott
Assistant Coach
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Post by $cott on Jun 15, 2022 10:47:28 GMT -5
Is it unfair though? I agree that some of the criticism has gone too far but the first two seasons were with Jalen Pickett and Manny Camper and once Carm had his handpicked team he did manage 3rd in the MAAC but with a KenPom close to 300 most of the year and a first round exit to the 11 seed. If that is how we are measuring success in this program then I'm not on board. Now we are facing year 4 and his weakest recruiting class on paper. In that stretch Carm has gone from answering questions on this board to completely turning his back on the fanbase and blatantly lying about the Aidan Carpenter situation. There is a complete lack of transparency and trust right now between Carm and the season ticket holders. This is a fanbase that was recently burnt by a CBI championship and all sorts of excitement at the start of the Patsos era that turned into bitter disappointment by the end. I really hope we aren't on our way to getting burnt again and the fear of that is why so many are on edge. It would go a long way if Carm simply reached out to the fans and spoke about his rationale around this recruiting class. Whether or not his rationale proves right or wrong in the long run, just speaking up and explaining his thinking would go a long way towards starting to build back that trust. Jalen Pickett only came to Siena because of Carm. Manny Camper averaged 6 points per game before Carm. Carm has recruited Jordan King (all MAAC), Stormo (will be preseason All-MAAC), Anthony Gaines (all MAAC), Colby Rogers (all MAAC), Jared Billups (all Rookie) and Javian McCollum (who we all agree is trending towards all MAAC). That’s, on average, two all league recruits per year. Members of this board pick and choose what to get mad about based on what suits them. If Carm had went into the media and said Aidan had quit on the team and we didn’t want him around (which we didn’t), fans would have said he was throwing the kid under the bus. If he tells fans the real reason Colby Rogers wanted to leave or the reason he had to fire Marcus King, fans will think it’s sour grapes. If he tells us who he’s recruiting and then we miss on those kids, he gets killed for losing a recruit to _____. He is damned one way or another because a segment of this board has unrealistic expectations. Complain about “lack of transparency” if you wish. But there’s some degree of trust Carm has earned by winning at the rate we have for the last three years. If he goes 8-24 this year, by all means, pile on. But when the “bad” year included finishing 3rd and going 3-1 against the teams that finished first and second, I think I’ll live. If you are just looking to live then that's fine. I can live with or without Siena basketball. I want to win and work back towards being a top 100 program. If those are unrealistic expectations then I think the days of seeing 6,000 a game at the MVP are numbered. Honestly, I probably fear going 15-14 and finishing 3rd in the MAAC for the next 10 years more than one season of 8-24. As to your examples, you know those are over the top, there is a level of diplomacy required of a head coach. Part of the job is treading the fine line between looking like an a-hole for saying too much and coming across as smug for saying too little.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jun 15, 2022 10:55:54 GMT -5
Jalen Pickett only came to Siena because of Carm. Manny Camper averaged 6 points per game before Carm. Carm has recruited Jordan King (all MAAC), Stormo (will be preseason All-MAAC), Anthony Gaines (all MAAC), Colby Rogers (all MAAC), Jared Billups (all Rookie) and Javian McCollum (who we all agree is trending towards all MAAC). That’s, on average, two all league recruits per year. Members of this board pick and choose what to get mad about based on what suits them. If Carm had went into the media and said Aidan had quit on the team and we didn’t want him around (which we didn’t), fans would have said he was throwing the kid under the bus. If he tells fans the real reason Colby Rogers wanted to leave or the reason he had to fire Marcus King, fans will think it’s sour grapes. If he tells us who he’s recruiting and then we miss on those kids, he gets killed for losing a recruit to _____. He is damned one way or another because a segment of this board has unrealistic expectations. Complain about “lack of transparency” if you wish. But there’s some degree of trust Carm has earned by winning at the rate we have for the last three years. If he goes 8-24 this year, by all means, pile on. But when the “bad” year included finishing 3rd and going 3-1 against the teams that finished first and second, I think I’ll live. If you are just looking to live then that's fine. I can live with or without Siena basketball. I want to win and work back towards being a top 100 program. If those are unrealistic expectations then I think the days of seeing 6,000 a game at the MVP are numbered. Honestly, I probably fear going 15-14 and finishing 3rd in the MAAC for the next 10 years more than one season of 8-24. As to your examples, you know those are over the top, there is a level of diplomacy required of a head coach. Part of the job is treading the fine line between looking like an a-hole for saying too much and coming across as smug for saying too little. Indeed, so when Aidan Carpenter quits on the team and the team decides they don’t want him around, you give him some cover and say he’s working on academics. Or you let Kyle Young be on a “personal leave of absence” or whatever we deemed it instead of announcing that he was a team cancer that the captains voted to kick off the team. That is exactly what you’re asking for, no?? I’m confused as to what you want him to say in these situations. And look — I do believe that being a “top 100 program” is bit unrealistic right now. Particularly without further investment by big-dollar donors in both the program and in NIL. Did you know we were never above 122 in KenPom in the Hewitt era? In the KenPom era (1997) we’ve never cracked top 100 other than during the three-peat. The top-100 MAAC teams of late have been the teams that go 17-3 in the league. Could we climb that mountain once or twice a decade? Sure. But perennially? No way. After Mitch and Patsos, we needed to start by becoming regularly competitive for MAAC titles. We’ve done that. And I’ll take that. Hopefully we can make that next step.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Jun 15, 2022 11:10:29 GMT -5
Jalen Pickett only came to Siena because of Carm. Manny Camper averaged 6 points per game before Carm. Carm has recruited Jordan King (all MAAC), Stormo (will be preseason All-MAAC), Anthony Gaines (all MAAC), Colby Rogers (all MAAC), Jared Billups (all Rookie) and Javian McCollum (who we all agree is trending towards all MAAC). That’s, on average, two all league recruits per year. Members of this board pick and choose what to get mad about based on what suits them. If Carm had went into the media and said Aidan had quit on the team and we didn’t want him around (which we didn’t), fans would have said he was throwing the kid under the bus. If he tells fans the real reason Colby Rogers wanted to leave or the reason he had to fire Marcus King, fans will think it’s sour grapes. If he tells us who he’s recruiting and then we miss on those kids, he gets killed for losing a recruit to _____. He is damned one way or another because a segment of this board has unrealistic expectations. Complain about “lack of transparency” if you wish. But there’s some degree of trust Carm has earned by winning at the rate we have for the last three years. If he goes 8-24 this year, by all means, pile on. But when the “bad” year included finishing 3rd and going 3-1 against the teams that finished first and second, I think I’ll live. If you are just looking to live then that's fine. I can live with or without Siena basketball. I want to win and work back towards being a top 100 program. If those are unrealistic expectations then I think the days of seeing 6,000 a game at the MVP are numbered. Honestly, I probably fear going 15-14 and finishing 3rd in the MAAC for the next 10 years more than one season of 8-24. As to your examples, you know those are over the top, there is a level of diplomacy required of a head coach. Part of the job is treading the fine line between looking like an a-hole for saying too much and coming across as smug for saying too little. What's an 'over the top' example? I'm not sure about the fine line. You're either going to be totally transparent or you won't. Knowing what you know now, how would you have liked him to address the Carpenter situation? Yes, he has to deal with fans and media. He's a 'new' HC, hopefully that will improve with more experience. And the past 3 years have been unprecedented with regard to all the changes with regard to covid and its impact on the game, esp recruiting, retaining kids, NIL. But as GS17 says, he HAS had some pretty darn good recruits as well as some questionable ones.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jun 15, 2022 11:11:54 GMT -5
If you are just looking to live then that's fine. I can live with or without Siena basketball. I want to win and work back towards being a top 100 program. If those are unrealistic expectations then I think the days of seeing 6,000 a game at the MVP are numbered. Honestly, I probably fear going 15-14 and finishing 3rd in the MAAC for the next 10 years more than one season of 8-24. As to your examples, you know those are over the top, there is a level of diplomacy required of a head coach. Part of the job is treading the fine line between looking like an a-hole for saying too much and coming across as smug for saying too little. Indeed, so when Aidan Carpenter quits on the team and the team decides they don’t want him around, you give him some cover and say he’s working on academics. Or you let Kyle Young be on a “personal leave of absence” or whatever we deemed it instead of announcing that he was a team cancer that the captains voted to kick off the team. That is exactly what you’re asking for, no?? I’m confused as to what you want him to say in these situations. And look — I do believe that being a “top 100 program” is bit unrealistic right now. Particularly without further investment by big-dollar donors in both the program and in NIL. Did you know we were never above 122 in KenPom in the Hewitt era? In the KenPom era (1997) we’ve never cracked top 100 other than during the three-peat. The top-100 MAAC teams of late have been the teams that go 17-3 in the league. Could we climb that mountain once or twice a decade? Sure. But perennially? No way. After Mitch and Patsos, we needed to start by becoming regularly competitive for MAAC titles. We’ve done that. And I’ll take that. Hopefully we can make that next step. I have no issues with his public comments on Kyle Young, the timing of it was a big problem but I think he handled the comments on it just fine. As to Carpenter, all he had to say is his injury is still bothering him and he's done for the year. There was no need for the bullcrap that he was focusing on his academics but might drive down on his own to join the team for the next round if he felt better. That was a ridiculous statement that never needed to be aired. I still see a ton of positives with Carm which is why I get frustrated with the negatives. I think he can be a great coach if he can work on some of his weaknesses. If he can't then I think he will be out of a job in 3 years. I think that things like resurrecting the "Chat with Coach Carm" section to this forum that has lied dormant for the past two years would be a step to addressing the vibes of smugness that is alienating a substantial portion of the fanbase. Or even just a really good statement on his rationale for going to countries where basketball is not a top sport for his recruits this year. Something more than a generalization like "portal kids suck".
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