Please refresh my memory ......

[Tony]

Mar 3, 2013 16:45:54 GMT -5 lmnop22 said:

There is never any transparency is these types of hires....you think they are going to tell the general public who is being interviewed?

You are absolutely right..nor should there be any transparency.

[brian]

Tony is correct in that there can't be transparency in these types of things because all potential candidates don't want it out there that they are interviewing or putting out feelers if they are currently a HC somewhere else.

With that in mind though, it also allows certain narratives to be told. I've always maintained serious doubt about how poor the potential candidate pool supposedly was the last time. I think particular names got out to the media and were interviewed all with the end game being hand the job to Mitch.

[Tony]

Mar 3, 2013 17:04:47 GMT -5 brian said:

Tony is correct in that there can't be transparency in these types of things because all potential candidates don't want it out there that they are interviewing or putting out feelers if they are currently a HC somewhere else.

With that in mind though, it also allows certain narratives to be told. I've always maintained serious doubt about how poor the potential candidate pool supposedly was the last time. I think particular names got out to the media and were interviewed all with the end game being hand the job to Mitch.

Agree 100% Brian-- in fact no other candidates were brought on campus. Mitch was interviewed by boosters that would see things the way Fr Kevin wanted it seen. And like I said ..I dont have that big a problem with it..other than it was well known how risky a hire Mitch was.. Fr Kevin should have NEVER hired him if he wasn't prepared to pull the plug on him after 1 year if the reclamation project was not successful. Fr Kevin was unwilling or unable to pull plug after 1st year ( and it was very obvious Mitch was not the man to lead Siena) and a few years later we sit as the laughing stock of college basketball and one of the worst teams in the country

Siena says all the right things but hasn't shown the intestinal fortitude to do whats right to maintain a strong men's program. It would not have been easy to fire Mitch after first year- but it was absolutely the right thing to do

[gorvy]

Agree-- now we will find out if any lessons were learned or if it is business as usual. If it is business as usual (meaning they would never fire a coach after one year no matter what) they should just give up the ghost now, slash ticket prices in half and move back to the ARC. Give the program back to the students and just hope they can land a lucky recruit every now and then to keep fan interest up to a reasonable level.

If lessons were learned than this program can move forward with the knowledge that good coaches win, and bad coaches have excuses, period. If this program wants to even sniff the A10 it will have to accept the reality that it can not be run with a bad coach. To survive as a relevant mid major basketball program, Siena needs to do what it takes to clean up this mess and show the A10 that it is ready to compete at a higher level going forward.

[Tony]

Good post Gorvy and right on the mark-- but I will say this

Mitch was extenuating circumstances – he was a risky hire that had a history of running a program into the ground. Yeah he said all the right things( he won’t change playing style, he knows the style fans like and players like to play- he knows you have to schedule tough,,, blah blah blah all of what turned it to be complete bullshit - since he had no history of success- he didn’t do what he said he would do( playing style) struggled relating to players, had meltdowns on sidelines etc—Siena would have been 100% justified in canning him after first year before he destroyed program

But if we hire a Toole or Paulsen( just using those two can be any successful coach) you can’t fire him if we go 10-20 next year- after OD graduates the cupboard is pretty bare- it may ( OK probably will) take a few years to come back. I don’t want to bad mouth any of our current players—but Mitch’s recruiting has been God awful – keep in mind the year after Mitch was fired at FF the stags only won 8 games the following year..in fact it took the stags almost a decade to recover from the disaster that is Mitch Buonaguro

[gorvy]

I wasn't clear. Yes, with Mitch they were 100% justified in letting him go after year 1. I'm sure they had a meeting and Mitch was able to talk his way out of it. But again, this program was at the highest level it had ever been to and he took one year to turn it into a loser. That should not have happened. That is a different scenario than what the next coach will be facing, you are correct. So, the next coach may need more than one year, even though Hewitt was able to do it in one year and so was McCaffery.

However, it should take no more than two years to make this a winning program again. I'm not necessarily talking about NCAAs, just simply winning more games than losing. A good coach will be able to recruit the right players to do that in the MAAC. A bad coach will still be struggling after two years and should be canned. As I have stated, no coach in the history of Siena basketball has ever posted a winning season at Siena after posting two consecutive losing seasons. As long as we are still in the MAAC, the general rule here should be two strikes and you are out. Move to the A-10 and that will have to be adjusted, but as for now, in this conference, two years is all that is needed no matter what the circumstances are.

[brian]

The one word of caution I would have about how quick this can get turned around is scholarship availability.

With recruits backing out of their LOI's and then some departures Fran was about to bring in 4 kids his first season and then 5 his second class.

As it stands right now the new coach would have 1 to give this year and 1 to give next year. Now maybe we get some transfers with the coaching change or the two recruits re-open and that gives the new coach some flexibility to bring in his own guys. Otherwise we're waiting until his third class when 6 become available.

[MTS]

I don't know what to expect next year (W/L wise) other than a much better coached team. I would hope a good coach could get us to 12-14 wins but maybe we improve but only win 10. By year two we should have a winning record. By the third season we should contend for the MAAC (If we were still there) championship.

If I was Siena I would try and switch with another MAAC team in the Old Spice Classic and delay the Italy trip a season.

It may have taken FF many years to recover but this is Siena - with our resources if we hire a good coach we'll be back quickly. Basketball is the one sport you can rebuild quickly in.

[lmnop22]

I think the Italy trip is one of the best things that could be done with the new coaching switch...especially if there is an entire new system/culture put into place....great time to get practice and bond. Don't look for next year to be me much greater than this year...I would throw this team into the wolves and let them take their lumps

[Deleted]

Mar 3, 2013 20:45:47 GMT -5 lmnop22 said:

I think the Italy trip is one of the best things that could be done with the new coaching switch...especially if there is an entire new system/culture put into place....great time to get practice and bond. Don't look for next year to be me much greater than this year...I would throw this team into the wolves and let them take their lumps

I have to agree whole heartedly here. This years coddle them with an easy schedule was a disaster. I know it was put in place to save Mitch's job but it couldn't even do that.

Time to move on.

[grascandunk]

Mar 3, 2013 17:12:51 GMT -5 Tony said:

Mar 3, 2013 17:04:47 GMT -5 brian said:

Tony is correct in that there can't be transparency in these types of things because all potential candidates don't want it out there that they are interviewing or putting out feelers if they are currently a HC somewhere else.

With that in mind though, it also allows certain narratives to be told. I've always maintained serious doubt about how poor the potential candidate pool supposedly was the last time. I think particular names got out to the media and were interviewed all with the end game being hand the job to Mitch.

Agree 100% Brian-- in fact no other candidates were brought on campus. Mitch was interviewed by boosters that would see things the way Fr Kevin wanted it seen. And like I said ..I dont have that big a problem with it..other than it was well known how risky a hire Mitch was.. Fr Kevin should have NEVER hired him if he wasn't prepared to pull the plug on him after 1 year if the reclamation project was not successful. Fr Kevin was unwilling or unable to pull plug after 1st year ( and it was very obvious Mitch was not the man to lead Siena) and a few years later we sit as the laughing stock of college basketball and one of the worst teams in the country

Siena says all the right things but hasn't shown the intestinal fortitude to do whats right to maintain a strong men's program. It would not have been easy to fire Mitch after first year- but it was absolutely the right thing to do

I was one of the strongest early ditch Mitch advocates (under my prior moniker JacqueMo) and even I didn't scream it from the rafters after the first year. Not many people were ready to pull the plug after 1 season, this board included.

[Tony]

Mar 4, 2013 5:56:38 GMT -5 grascandunk said:

Mar 3, 2013 17:12:51 GMT -5 Tony said:

Agree 100% Brian-- in fact no other candidates were brought on campus. Mitch was interviewed by boosters that would see things the way Fr Kevin wanted it seen. And like I said ..I dont have that big a problem with it..other than it was well known how risky a hire Mitch was.. Fr Kevin should have NEVER hired him if he wasn't prepared to pull the plug on him after 1 year if the reclamation project was not successful. Fr Kevin was unwilling or unable to pull plug after 1st year ( and it was very obvious Mitch was not the man to lead Siena) and a few years later we sit as the laughing stock of college basketball and one of the worst teams in the country

Siena says all the right things but hasn't shown the intestinal fortitude to do whats right to maintain a strong men's program. It would not have been easy to fire Mitch after first year- but it was absolutely the right thing to do

I was one of the strongest early ditch Mitch advocates (under my prior moniker JacqueMo) and even I didn't scream it from the rafters after the first year. Not many people were ready to pull the plug after 1 season, this board included.

Not true at all...in fact iorizzo wrote a piece on it after MTS posted welcome to the hot seat Mitch when he lost to UA. his first year . dont forget Mitch's 1st game he lost Fran's 38 game home winning streak..when he mismanaged team to loss Vs UVM.. you had a few very vocal and very wrong fans( they were well intentioned, but terribly misguided) like Misspractice and Bill Murray- who had trouble seeing what was happening. they tried to belittle those of us who saw what the program wrecker was doing to Siena program. Attendance started dropping 5 games into Mitch';s tenure and it continues to drop till this day. And when Mitch is fired its NOT the end of it-- many of the 1000 to 1500 season ticket holders no shows, will not renew next year. At any rate..no need to rehash that--needless to say many many people saw what program wrecker was doing. What matters now is has the Siena admin learned their lesson and where we go from here

[lmnop22]

I just think firing an individual after one year compromises the coaching process and the type of coaches you get in the future. What qualified coach would want to come to Siena after the previous coach got fired after year 1? I understand where you are coming from, you just never really see it done...plus Siena doesn't have the coin to pay him 3 years and another at the same time...unless there is some lucky alumni that was willing to pay his buyout

[gorvy]

Yes, who can forget Pete's snarky comments directed at the intuitive Sienahoops.com faithful, complete with endorsement from fellow career loser Will Brown. The pitchforks are out again, Pete. The pitchforks are out.

blog.timesunion.com/collegesports/hold-fire-on-siena-for-now/9466/

[siena77]

Mar 4, 2013 7:09:01 GMT -5 lmnop22 said:

I just think firing an individual after one year compromises the coaching process and the type of coaches you get in the future. What qualified coach would want to come to Siena after the previous coach got fired after year 1? I understand where you are coming from, you just never really see it done...plus Siena doesn't have the coin to pay him 3 years and another at the same time...unless there is some lucky alumni that was willing to pay his buyout

I don't think a competent & self-confident coach would be hesitate at all if his predecessor were canned after 1 year. If anyone is coming in thinking he's NOT on the hot seat, he should go into a different profession.

I still think the problem was in giving Mitch a 3-year deal to start with. It should have been a 2-year contract to start, at most--given Mitch's track record--and we could have said "that's the deal if you want this job, Mitch".

Anyway, we're about to move on. Let's be smarter this time.