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Post by Tony on Apr 23, 2020 12:51:48 GMT -5
I think its a good problem to have, we know AC is going to be good-- is he play 10/15 a game good or is he 20/25 min a game good? If he is 25 min a game good, going to be hard to play Manny or Tate at 3 much at all,Gary has to get some time. Unless we sign a strong Center, I see Tate at the 5 a lot this year. And we dont know how ready Golson or BK will be? I know it's a cliche, but competition for minutes will be intense this year. Carm really has several different ways he can go, we really have a strong roster
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 13:31:33 GMT -5
I think its a good problem to have, we know AC is going to be good-- is he play 10/15 a game good or is he 20/25 min a game good? If he is 25 min a game good, going to be hard to play Manny or Tate at 3 much at all,Gary has to get some time. Unless we sign a strong Center, I see Tate at the 5 a lot this year. And we dont know how ready Golson or BK will be? I know it's a cliche, but competition for minutes will be intense this year. Carm really has several different ways he can go, we really have a strong roster You forgot the '30 mpg good' option...but yes, even at 20-25 mpg, Tate or Manny ain't playing the 3 much. Assuming that Carpenter's time cuts into Carey's SG minutes before it cuts into the SF minutes is probably a mistake. Carpenter's gonna play... You don't bench a guy you compare to Mark Lyons and then tell Mark Lyons himself...hey 'this kid's like you'. We all know that Carey is also capable of even more than he accomplished last year. He showed that at the beginning of the season...as well as at the end. Don't think he's at risk of losing significant amount of minutes given how he can score.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Apr 23, 2020 15:29:59 GMT -5
With no off sesaon, returners are going to have a hugh advantage in earning playing time to begin the season. Carpenter might be good, but Pickett is obviously the returning POY, Camper is a returning 1st all maac player and Carey will be preseason all maac.
Harris started a bunch of games and shows flashes of his potential and Young showed his potential as well. I expect both to make big jumps this year. If I am not correct, Tate is not eligible until January, and the two transfer bigs are not expected to be eligible until 2021/2022.
I expect the starters to be Pickett, Carey, Harris, Camper and Young. Carpenter will be the 6th man. King will get some run. Tate will get plenty of p/t starting in late December. Unless one of them blows up, Golson/BK will be fighting for minutes at the 4/5. Of course that could change if they sign a grad transfer who can push Young.
I do like the idea of playing small and can see the Saints going with a really small but fast lineup of Pickett, Harris, Carey, Carpenter and Camper for some stretches. That is a line up to can do some damage in transition and pressuring the ball. Would love to see Fran's 3/4 court defense with those 5 on the floor.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Apr 23, 2020 15:40:24 GMT -5
With no off sesaon, returners are going to have a hugh advantage in earning playing time to begin the season. Carpenter might be good, but Pickett is obviously the returning POY, Camper is a returning 1st all maac player and Carey will be preseason all maac. Harris started a bunch of games and shows flashes of his potential and Young showed his potential as well. I expect both to make big jumps this year. If I am not correct, Tate is not eligible until January, and the two transfer bigs are not expected to be eligible until 2021/2022. I expect the starters to be Pickett, Carey, Harris, Camper and Young. Carpenter will be the 6th man. King will get some run. Tate will get plenty of p/t starting in late December. Unless one of them blows up, Golson/BK will be fighting for minutes at the 4/5. Of course that could change if they sign a grad transfer who can push Young. I do like the idea of playing small and can see the Saints going with a really small but fast lineup of Pickett, Harris, Carey, Carpenter and Camper for some stretches. That is a line up to can do some damage in transition and pressuring the ball. Would love to see Fran's 3/4 court defense with those 5 on the floor. The versatility of the quartet of Gary/Dana/Golson/Camper will help us. We can play 3 of those guys at once and be super switchable from 3-5. That's one of the plans right now. An additional big from the grad or JUCO market hopefully will get us a guy who can block shots and help us match up against bigger teams. And obviously Young is big and tough down low. Lots of options. But the staff loves the idea of having the versatility up front with multiple big, physical forwards who can also handle the ball.
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Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 23, 2020 18:11:32 GMT -5
Not true. All i said about that was when we play a couple teams in the MAAC (Manhattan and Rider especially), the staff shouldnt be afraid to play Burns and Friday together because of what the opponent has on the floor. Rider had Vaughn at the 3, and Carm put Manny on him. Fine, but now, Carey ended up on Scott and it was a horrible matchup for us. Burns was too small for Marshall, and he hated it when Sammy guarded him. Its very rare when a MAAC team has 2 real big kids upfront. I felt Burns could handle the few minutes at the 4 if need be. Playing Golson at the 5, we give uo some size and probably rebounding, so having Manny at the 3, instead of Harris/Carpenter, we maintain our rebounding advantage while yes, losing a little on the perimeter shooting. Lets see your guy shoot over 40% from 3, and we can talk about how much we lose with him on the bench. I think 20-25 min a game is very fair for him. You must have him as a Pickett-like 33+ min a game? Carpenter doesn't have to shoot 40% from three to be the better option. Harris and Tate are both sub 30% 3pt shooters and sub 55% FT shooters so far in their careers. Even 33% could be a lot better. I expect Carpenter could shoot 35% from 3 this year. The difference is...I expect him to potentially have the highest PPS of anyone who will play the 1-3 because I think he has a higher FT rate compared anyone else in our back court (if his AAU stats are an indication). Carpenter is 6-5 and attacks and finishes with both hands and is probably going to shoot around 80% from the FT line. It's not just about the 3's....he might even be better than them at the 2's and drawing the fouls....in addition to ballhandling, passing, and pressuring the ball. Also, Burns only averaged 6.7 rebs per 30 mins this year. That's far from killing it on the boards in this league. Tate averaged 5 per 30 playing the SF in the A-10 so he could probably replicate the 6.7 at center in the MAAC. And Golson looks strong, active, and athletic enough to average 7 per 30 in the MAAC. He averaged 12+ rebs per game this year in HS. And, of course, Young averages nearly 10 rebs per 30 already. You probably won't even give up much, if any, rebounding....especially given the big man losses within the MAAC. Plus, with Carpenter over Hein (Siena's worst rebounder next to King) and a year of maturity for the rest of the guards...you probably could make up at least a rebound per game from the back court as well. Basically, I think even with Carpenter effectively at the 3....Siena could IMPROVE on the boards over last year....making the need to sacrifice shooting for rebounding superfluous most nights. Camper's elite rebounding makes the need for a plus rebounding center mostly unnecessary. Even an 'ok' rebounding center will do and we already have potentially better than 'ok' in Kyle Young. Manny shot 33% from 3, and you only expect AC to shoot 35%? So we really dont lose much shooting with MC at the 3 do we?
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Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 23, 2020 18:20:55 GMT -5
You guys think Tate can just play center because hes the 2nd biggest guy on our team. Tate and Burns might look alike physically, but they've been very different players since they left HS. Can he defend most centers in the MAAC probably, but offensively I cant see him playing the same role as Elijah. He's used to facing up. Thats why he's a 4 star kid and went with Hurley to RI.....and pleaseeeee stop comparing his numbers against A-10 talent nightly with players that faced MAAC talent every game. The talent difference variable is too great for any sort of legitimate accuracy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 18:55:28 GMT -5
Carpenter doesn't have to shoot 40% from three to be the better option. Harris and Tate are both sub 30% 3pt shooters and sub 55% FT shooters so far in their careers. Even 33% could be a lot better. I expect Carpenter could shoot 35% from 3 this year. The difference is...I expect him to potentially have the highest PPS of anyone who will play the 1-3 because I think he has a higher FT rate compared anyone else in our back court (if his AAU stats are an indication). Carpenter is 6-5 and attacks and finishes with both hands and is probably going to shoot around 80% from the FT line. It's not just about the 3's....he might even be better than them at the 2's and drawing the fouls....in addition to ballhandling, passing, and pressuring the ball. Also, Burns only averaged 6.7 rebs per 30 mins this year. That's far from killing it on the boards in this league. Tate averaged 5 per 30 playing the SF in the A-10 so he could probably replicate the 6.7 at center in the MAAC. And Golson looks strong, active, and athletic enough to average 7 per 30 in the MAAC. He averaged 12+ rebs per game this year in HS. And, of course, Young averages nearly 10 rebs per 30 already. You probably won't even give up much, if any, rebounding....especially given the big man losses within the MAAC. Plus, with Carpenter over Hein (Siena's worst rebounder next to King) and a year of maturity for the rest of the guards...you probably could make up at least a rebound per game from the back court as well. Basically, I think even with Carpenter effectively at the 3....Siena could IMPROVE on the boards over last year....making the need to sacrifice shooting for rebounding superfluous most nights. Camper's elite rebounding makes the need for a plus rebounding center mostly unnecessary. Even an 'ok' rebounding center will do and we already have potentially better than 'ok' in Kyle Young. Manny shot 33% from 3, and you only expect AC to shoot 35%? So we really dont lose much shooting with MC at the 3 do we? Walk me through that logic again, lol. If Manny is effectively a three than a poor shooter is at the 4 and that’s who you should be comparing to Carpenter. Personally, I think Carpenter is probably capable of shooting threes closer to Carey’s level at some point but he’ll be a frosh and I’m lowering the expectation in that regard. And Manny only made 15 threes this past year. Counting on him to shoot threes and shoot them consistently based on his career 26% is funny optimistic.
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Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 23, 2020 19:06:16 GMT -5
Manny shot 33% from 3, and you only expect AC to shoot 35%? So we really dont lose much shooting with MC at the 3 do we? Walk me through that logic again, lol. If Manny is effectively a three than a poor shooter is at the 4 and that’s who you should be comparing to Carpenter. Personally, I think Carpenter is probably capable of shooting threes closer to Carey’s level at some point but he’ll be a frosh and I’m lowering the expectation in that regard. And Manny only made 15 threes this past year. Counting on him to shoot threes and shoot them consistently based on his career 26% is funny optimistic. I'll leave it with this: Im betting you've got Carpenter overrated and Tate underrated.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 19:11:21 GMT -5
You guys think Tate can just play center because hes the 2nd biggest guy on our team. Tate and Burns might look alike physically, but they've been very different players since they left HS. Can he defend most centers in the MAAC probably, but offensively I cant see him playing the same role as Elijah. He's used to facing up. Thats why he's a 4 star kid and went with Hurley to RI.....and pleaseeeee stop comparing his numbers against A-10 talent nightly with players that faced MAAC talent every game. The talent difference variable is too great for any sort of legitimate accuracy. If he can’t play the 5 effectively enough, then he probably shouldn’t play much this year while Camper is around. He’s not as talented at creating as Carpenter likely will be....nor as quick with the ball, nor likely as good of a shooter. And Carpenter is likely a better on ball defender. Carm is also talking about him taking pressure off Pickett by putting him on the ball. If Tate is competing with Carpenter directly for minutes...I don’t think he wins that battle long term. It’s not even all about the stats. It’s also the eye test.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 19:18:44 GMT -5
Walk me through that logic again, lol. If Manny is effectively a three than a poor shooter is at the 4 and that’s who you should be comparing to Carpenter. Personally, I think Carpenter is probably capable of shooting threes closer to Carey’s level at some point but he’ll be a frosh and I’m lowering the expectation in that regard. And Manny only made 15 threes this past year. Counting on him to shoot threes and shoot them consistently based on his career 26% is funny optimistic. I'll leave it with this: Im betting you've got Carpenter overrated and Tate underrated. I think Tate can be a very good combo forward in this league and he could even be a decent SF if he sticks to his strengths. I just think Carpenter has too many tools in his tool belt to not succeed. Even if he underperforms his own potential, he’s still going to be very valuable. Even if he isn’t a pure PG, he could still be a plus SG or a plus SF. I think by this time next year most other MAAC teams not named Iona could simply find it unfair that we have Pickett, Carey, and Carpenter in the same backcourt. I felt very good about Wright, Penn, and Pickett coming in. I’m telling you that if Carpenter is even half the passer that those guys are, he’s a future 1st team talent easy because of the size and athleticism combo advantages over them. If he even only barely has a positive A/TO ratio, he’s got 2nd team talent. With his size and athleticism, if he can both play point AND shoot...you’re talking potentially an AJ English esque impact at some point during his career. If we find he can’t play point, he’s simply Donald Carey type and that’s still 2nd or 3rd team potential. The risk factor on him his pretty low in my mind. Just too many tools and avenues for success. 5 tool potential. Even if he bombs out on half his potential, he’d still probably have starter or 6th man ability.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Apr 23, 2020 19:28:12 GMT -5
I'll leave it with this: Im betting you've got Carpenter overrated and Tate underrated. I think Tate can be a very good combo forward in this league and he could even be a decent SF. I just think Carpenter has too many tools in his tool belt to not succeed. Even if he underperforms his own potential, he’s still going to be very valuable. Even if he isn’t a pure PG, he could still be a plus SG or a plus SF. I think by this time next year most other MAAC teams could simply find it unfair that we have Pickett, Carey, and Carpenter in the same backcourt. I guess it just depends on whether your goal is to play Carpenter 30 minutes by taking 10 from Pickett, 10 from Carey, and 10 at the 3, or if your goal is to play Carpenter 30 minutes by playing him 20 minutes next to Carey and Pickett and 10 minutes behind them. For what it's worth the feeling I've gotten is he'll be more in the 23-27 minute range, not the 30+ range. And there's room for 23-27 minutes for both Tate and Carpenter while still giving Harris his 20ish. And there's also room for Tate or Camper (whoever you want to call it) the 5, even not as a traditional 5. 5-out spread look.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 19:44:40 GMT -5
I think Tate can be a very good combo forward in this league and he could even be a decent SF. I just think Carpenter has too many tools in his tool belt to not succeed. Even if he underperforms his own potential, he’s still going to be very valuable. Even if he isn’t a pure PG, he could still be a plus SG or a plus SF. I think by this time next year most other MAAC teams could simply find it unfair that we have Pickett, Carey, and Carpenter in the same backcourt. I guess it just depends on whether your goal is to play Carpenter 30 minutes by taking 10 from Pickett, 10 from Carey, and 10 at the 3, or if your goal is to play Carpenter 30 minutes by playing him 20 minutes next to Carey and Pickett and 10 minutes behind them. For what it's worth the feeling I've gotten is he'll be more in the 23-27 minute range, not the 30+ range. And there's room for 23-27 minutes for both Tate and Carpenter while still giving Harris his 20ish. And there's also room for Tate or Camper (whoever you want to call it) the 5, even not as a traditional 5. 5-out spread look. My feeling is that once Carpenter gets his chance, people will have an oh %&#! this kid’s good epiphany. Also, your way leaves no minutes at all for King who still remains a clutch shooter
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Post by dacks on Apr 23, 2020 20:12:47 GMT -5
I doubt we will see much of Tate at the 5. Sure he has the size, but it's just not his positional mindset. A little birdie told me that we are considering starting him at the three, with Gary as his backup.
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Post by Quackman on Apr 23, 2020 20:19:24 GMT -5
I guess it just depends on whether your goal is to play Carpenter 30 minutes by taking 10 from Pickett, 10 from Carey, and 10 at the 3, or if your goal is to play Carpenter 30 minutes by playing him 20 minutes next to Carey and Pickett and 10 minutes behind them. For what it's worth the feeling I've gotten is he'll be more in the 23-27 minute range, not the 30+ range. And there's room for 23-27 minutes for both Tate and Carpenter while still giving Harris his 20ish. And there's also room for Tate or Camper (whoever you want to call it) the 5, even not as a traditional 5. 5-out spread look. My feeling is that once Carpenter gets his chance, people will have an oh %&#! this kid’s good epiphany. Also, your way leaves no minutes at all for King who still remains a clutch shooter Seems like deja vu all over again. The way you talk about Carpenter sounds exactly line how you pined for Shane Walker last year, a guy that moved from GW to Loyola, MD after only 1 season. Don't get me wrong, I hope he is the next breakout Saint, but you are setting unrealistic expectations for a kid who has yet to play 1 minute of Division 1 basketball. He is going to have to find his spot/role playing alongside 3 all maac level players and a high major athlete in Harris. I do expect him to beat King out and end up being the top guy off the bench.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 20:47:43 GMT -5
My feeling is that once Carpenter gets his chance, people will have an oh %&#! this kid’s good epiphany. Also, your way leaves no minutes at all for King who still remains a clutch shooter Seems like deja vu all over again. The way you talk about Carpenter sounds exactly line how you pined for Shane Walker last year, a guy that moved from GW to Loyola, MD after only 1 season. Don't get me wrong, I hope he is the next breakout Saint, but you are setting unrealistic expectations for a kid who has yet to play 1 minute of Division 1 basketball. He is going to have to find his spot/role playing alongside 3 all maac level players and a high major athlete in Harris. I do expect him to beat King out and end up being the top guy off the bench. Not quite. I always questioned Walker’s shooting from the beginning, especially after watching his clanks in HS. I still wanted him even with that..and I still would take him. JC emphasizing his weakness by shooting so many threes and not letting him attack the rim or the offensive boards is an example of why I’ve said since JC left that we got the better coach out of the deal. Simply stupid just like Darwiche over Smithen. Walker still has a lot of potential if he’s in the right system attacking the rim. He takes care of the ball. Harris, I absolutely love his activity, but he’s not the ballhandler nor shooter he needs to be right now in order to stay as a three for this team whose guard talent level has now risen. Walker actually probably could have been better at the SF for us under Carm’s system...though I like Harris’ defensive upside better. Harris couldn’t even stay on the floor at the end of games over King this year. Can’t shoot 48% from the line and not expect to be pushed for minutes. Carpenter could be an entirely different animal. Make no mistake, I’m not saying the kid is going to come out and average 15 as a frosh. That’s NOT what I’m saying. I’m saying that the kid can help in too many ways to be benched. If he averages just 9-10 pts, 3 assists, 4 rebs while knocking down shots, drawing fouls, and potentially being one of the primary on ball defenders and ballhandlers...is that not a huge thing? He’d keep the floor spread, while defending, while pushing and passing in transition. It would take pressure off Pickett, help up the TO margin like we need, and provide us with another good FT shooter to help offset the loss of Burns in crunch time. You don’t bench a guy you call ‘Mark Lyons’. And btw, Mark Lyons was only 6-1...not Carpenter’s 6-4/6-5.
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