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Post by MTS on Jan 31, 2018 14:22:54 GMT -5
Considering my admittedly unpopular voicing of Jimmy's strengths with regards to his rebounding and foul drawing strategy...I'm going to present an even more unpopular scenario which I'm not even sure that I want to hear about. I have a great condemnation for many of Jimmy's decisions however, I think he's a better overall coach than Sydney, Masiello, Maker, Casey, results wise Dunne, and maybe even Rice in the long term. While he may screw up his upside with bad decisions he's mostly a middler and the rebounding margin tends to keep them in a lot of games. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that Siena surprises here on out fueled by rebounding margin as Horn and Richard return to the lineup and the rest of the PIG teams' inconsistency from game to game. And, as a result, Siena manages to fight its way to a 6th place finish because of this. A win vs. Manhattan puts them 1/2 game out of 6th. So Jimmy fights his way back to the coaches' poll finish....and then he lands Welch and Co. It IS plausable that with a potential overall depth upgrade at PG and better ballhawks it leads to a better team turnover margin, better overall defense, and the overall driving athletes closing the FT disparity gap that Siena could then surprise quite a bit next year and save Jimmy's job. As I delve deeper into the numbers and understand more WHY Siena isn't getting blown out, I can't help but wonder about this scenario a little bit. Maybe they'll continue suck the rest of the way and he won't get the chance. But, in the numbers and based on the style of the potential recruits, it seems possible to me. He could even still continue to screw up the scouting and gameplans quite a bit and find a way to get there. The rebound margin and drawing FTs could offer him that chance. The top 4 next year is looking like Rider, Iona, Canisius, Quinny...and they may still not be world beaters. Then there's potentially a big dropoff to the next tier. There's a BIG opening for team #5. Nobody wants to hear this, and I'd love to find a coach who is going to win us games instead of just a caretaker, but nobody is talking about this chance right now and I'm just throwing it out there to stir the pot a bit. Finish 5th next year....sure that would be good with a new coach. All it would do with Patsos is continuing to ensure he'll be Siena's Dave Magarity.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Jan 31, 2018 14:26:12 GMT -5
If boosters are leaving, I'm not sure they'll want to pony up money under the current circumstances. And, if D'Arg is really retiring, it could be too much transition for one year. Jimmy could get another year while the new AD potentially spends the year evaluating options. It would seem to me there's at least a 50/50 chance he'll be back next year. That happens and Bill O'Reilly's next book should be: Killing Siena. Off topic, but does anyone really believe that mts has read anything longer than the Value menu or a fortune cookie in the last 10 years?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 14:27:39 GMT -5
Of course, without both Richard and Horn...you just make do with what you got. But, with them, they should be playing small more...even without Nico. Penn, Richard, Horn, Shivers, Smithen Ideally, I believe 4 of those guys should always be out there...and when not...Heurter. Penn, Smithen, and Shivers are all plus rebounding guards...and Horn is at least average. They can get away with it. I still don't think there is enough offense there and defense would be a mess. Agree that the rebounding would probably be okay and it may cut down on turnovers. But they'd end up giving up 90 a game and they wouldn't have enough firepower to put up those kind of points regularly. You can still play slow that way. They could use rebounding and the reduced turnovers to win the possession battle and always keep themselves within close striking distance of the win. Playing Shivers in a big lineup is destined for failure as he'll drive into traffic and turn it over. He needs to play in a small lineup with room to roam. Playing Smithen in a big lineup means you're potentially giving up another scorer. The #1 key is to limit the turnovers coming out of the SF and PF positions in order to cut that horrendous turnover margin. Shivers at the 3 doesn't help the team cause he turns it over. Either he's playing the 4 or he's not playing. He can't hinder the backcourt's ball control. Camper shouldn't play. He won't help the turnover margin either. Penn, Horn, Smithen, Heurter is the lineup least likely to turn it over but Smithen and Heurter together might struggle offensively so you mix Richard and Shivers around them. Prince and Fisher COMBINED have only forced 15 turnovers. Siena could more rapidly close the turnover margin gap and get more steals by keeping those 2 more confined to the 5 spot.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jan 31, 2018 14:41:25 GMT -5
I still don't think there is enough offense there and defense would be a mess. Agree that the rebounding would probably be okay and it may cut down on turnovers. But they'd end up giving up 90 a game and they wouldn't have enough firepower to put up those kind of points regularly. You can still play slow that way. They could use rebounding and the reduced turnovers to win the possession battle and always keep themselves within close striking distance of the win. Playing Shivers in a big lineup is destined for failure as he'll drive into traffic and turn it over. He needs to play in a small lineup with room to roam. Playing Smithen in a big lineup means you're potentially giving up another scorer. The # key is to limit the turnovers coming out of the SF and PF positions in order to cut that horrendous turnover margin. Shivers at the 3 doesn't help the team cause he turns it over. Either he's playing the 4 or he's not playing. He can't hinder the backcourt's ball control. Camper shouldn't play. He won't help the turnover margin either. Penn, Horn, Smithen, Heurter is the lineup least likely to turn it over but Smithen and Heurter together might struggle offensively so you mix Richard and Shivers around them. Prince and Fisher COMBINED have only forced 15 turnovers. Siena could more rapidly close the turnover margin gap and get more steals by keeping those 2 more confined to the 5 spot. This is the biggest thing that people forget about 4 guards. Iona played 4 guards last year, but so did Saint Peter’s playing at their dinasour tempo. Wyche, Griffin, Patterson, Enechyionya, and Welton. Portley, Baker, Idowu off the bench. All 4 guards is doing is spacing the floor to play to our strengths of shooting and distributing. Playing like that this year would help us win games. Penn, Horn, Shivers, Huerter, Oduro would be my lineup but you could do a bunch of different things. The key to playing 4 guards is actually playing 4 guard concepts, not just playing your 4 in the same flex concept as a 6-4 guard instead of a 6-8 Big. You have to embrace space and ball movement instead of forcing things into the post and getting it back out. And with a guy like Welch or Johnson only makes that better next year. More speed, more athletes, more guys who can create off the bounce and more plus defenders. Then you can pick up the pace especially if Horn improves off the bounce and Oduro gets in better shape.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 31, 2018 14:59:06 GMT -5
You can still play slow that way. They could use rebounding and the reduced turnovers to win the possession battle and always keep themselves within close striking distance of the win. Playing Shivers in a big lineup is destined for failure as he'll drive into traffic and turn it over. He needs to play in a small lineup with room to roam. Playing Smithen in a big lineup means you're potentially giving up another scorer. The # key is to limit the turnovers coming out of the SF and PF positions in order to cut that horrendous turnover margin. Shivers at the 3 doesn't help the team cause he turns it over. Either he's playing the 4 or he's not playing. He can't hinder the backcourt's ball control. Camper shouldn't play. He won't help the turnover margin either. Penn, Horn, Smithen, Heurter is the lineup least likely to turn it over but Smithen and Heurter together might struggle offensively so you mix Richard and Shivers around them. Prince and Fisher COMBINED have only forced 15 turnovers. Siena could more rapidly close the turnover margin gap and get more steals by keeping those 2 more confined to the 5 spot. This is the biggest thing that people forget about 4 guards. Iona played 4 guards last year, but so did Saint Peter’s playing at their dinasour tempo. Wyche, Griffin, Patterson, Enechyionya, and Welton. Portley, Baker, Idowu off the bench. All 4 guards is doing is spacing the floor to play to our strengths of shooting and distributing. Playing like that this year would help us win games. Penn, Horn, Shivers, Huerter, Oduro would be my lineup but you could do a bunch of different things. The key to playing 4 guards is actually playing 4 guard concepts, not just playing your 4 in the same flex concept as a 6-4 guard instead of a 6-8 Big. You have to embrace space and ball movement instead of forcing things into the post and getting it back out. And with a guy like Welch or Johnson only makes that better next year. More speed, more athletes, more guys who can create off the bounce and more plus defenders. Then you can pick up the pace especially if Horn improves off the bounce and Oduro gets in better shape. this unfortunately, no matter how the 4 out 1 sets up (guard line up is better for us).........we just don't have enough of THOSE to win more than we lose..........might sneak a game here or there, but no big winning streak is happening...........
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Jan 31, 2018 15:00:01 GMT -5
Right On Yeah
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 15:16:30 GMT -5
This is the biggest thing that people forget about 4 guards. Iona played 4 guards last year, but so did Saint Peter’s playing at their dinasour tempo. Wyche, Griffin, Patterson, Enechyionya, and Welton. Portley, Baker, Idowu off the bench. All 4 guards is doing is spacing the floor to play to our strengths of shooting and distributing. Playing like that this year would help us win games. Penn, Horn, Shivers, Huerter, Oduro would be my lineup but you could do a bunch of different things. The key to playing 4 guards is actually playing 4 guard concepts, not just playing your 4 in the same flex concept as a 6-4 guard instead of a 6-8 Big. You have to embrace space and ball movement instead of forcing things into the post and getting it back out. And with a guy like Welch or Johnson only makes that better next year. More speed, more athletes, more guys who can create off the bounce and more plus defenders. Then you can pick up the pace especially if Horn improves off the bounce and Oduro gets in better shape. this unfortunately, no matter how the 4 out 1 sets up (guard line up is better for us).........we just don't have enough of THOSE to win more than we lose..........might sneak a game here or there, but no big winning streak is happening........... In THIS league, you could win more than you lose. We're harder on our guards than we are on other teams' guards. Siena's problems aren't only Siena's problems.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 31, 2018 15:33:35 GMT -5
this unfortunately, no matter how the 4 out 1 sets up (guard line up is better for us).........we just don't have enough of THOSE to win more than we lose..........might sneak a game here or there, but no big winning streak is happening........... In THIS league, you could win more than you lose. We're harder on our guards than we are on other teams' guards. Siena's problems aren't only Siena's problems. and yet we don't play SMART enough to do that...............Marist is the least talented team I have seen in this league in a very long time, and we split with them........only 1 road win is also problematic................egads..............
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 15:53:01 GMT -5
In THIS league, you could win more than you lose. We're harder on our guards than we are on other teams' guards. Siena's problems aren't only Siena's problems. and yet we don't play SMART enough to do that...............Marist is the least talented team I have seen in this league in a very long time, and we split with them........only 1 road win is also problematic................egads.............. Manhattan lost at home to Marist with a senior laden team. It could be worse. Masiello could be our coach.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 31, 2018 16:42:33 GMT -5
and yet we don't play SMART enough to do that...............Marist is the least talented team I have seen in this league in a very long time, and we split with them........only 1 road win is also problematic................egads.............. Manhattan lost at home to Marist with a senior laden team. It could be worse. Masiello could be our coach. with some of the poor coaching going on in this league, and down talent level.............Siena has NO EXCUSE to not be at or near the top of the standings, NONE...........
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jan 31, 2018 17:20:23 GMT -5
Consistency.
I think UVM has done a great job with their program over the years with consistency. Just a solid well run program going on almost 2 decades.
Would that be asking too much?
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Jan 31, 2018 23:41:29 GMT -5
Where's all the great chemistry now that Nico left that everyone said he caused?
Chemistry must not be flowing too well when your scoring only 40 pts in regulation.
No it was and has been about talent and coaching.
Nico had had enough of bad coaching and a continued lack of respect and now the team has Fisher shooting up 3's (unsuccessfully) and going off and getting 6 rebounds in 44 minutes.
Just killing it without Nico these days.
How anyone could think this team was or is better off without Nico is just plain crazy.
If from the beginning he went with Friday, Nico, Shivers, Horn, and Penn and just ran, with Richard, Huerter, Smithen, and yes, Fisher coming off the bench, this team would be much different...and much better.
Lost opportunity that Rex will rightfully so, lose his job over.
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legacy
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Post by legacy on Feb 1, 2018 7:55:44 GMT -5
so true about the chemistry sienafanallyearlong2 and again-"that's on" JP (!) so hard to play for a coach when your role is an elusive, ever-changing concept. Who's on first? no one really knows. He needs to let go of the handcuffs (and the fisticuffs and flying spittle )when dealing with his players. None of these guys forgot how to score..tough to play well when your neck's on a swivel watching the bench to see when/if you have a green light to do anything
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 10:02:26 GMT -5
So I drilled down from 4guysinblazers twitter to Malik's and watched a pinned video of him from his senior year talking about him throwing up a string of triple doubles. He sounds like a guy who could go get you 20, 10, & 10 here and there. However, he also sounds like a pretty cocky kid though, but yet a conscious and willing distributor on the court. Hopefully, he wouldn't cause any issue.
If Penn was aggressive and created more for others he could be that guy too. We know he can score and rebound when he wants to.
It seems to me that if Jimmy gets Malik and Welch to go with Penn and Horn at the very least...that could be a potentially dominant backcourt in this league...if these guys do what they sound like they do on paper. Welch averaged about 3.5 apg in the stats on maxpreps. There were no turnover stats but given those assists stats you have to figure he's a better passer than Nico every was.
Talent could override even Jimmy next year with these 2 guys especially. With growth from Penn and Horn over the summer and these guys potential natural all-around talent, it could go pretty well.
I really like the potential here. Tariq may be a better defending/smoother version of Shivers. He's good and could certainly help but these other 2 seem like they could potentially redefine (with Penn and Horn) the Siena backcourt into the best we've seen since Fran.
Penn, Malik, Welch, and Johnson could all make defensive plays and get steals and even blocks...while Horn goes out there is able to be that Ryan Oliver+ and just score and be a calming 6th man type. And, on paper aside from maybe Tariq, they'd all take care of the ball.
It could put them right up there (or even higher because of rebounding and D)with the backcourts of Quinny, Iona, and Canisius.
I'm really anxious to see if these kids commit. If they do and are what they seem on paper it would be, by far, Jimmy's biggest coaching coup since it was decided that Wright and Long would follow him from Loyola.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 1, 2018 10:09:18 GMT -5
So I drilled down from 4guysinblazers twitter to Malik's and watched a pinned video of him from his senior year talking about him throwing up a string of triple doubles. He sounds like a guy who could go get you 20, 10, & 10. However, he also sounds like a pretty cocky kid though, but yet a conscious and willing distributor on the court. Hopefully, he wouldn't cause any issue. If Penn was aggressive and created more for others he could be that guy too. We know he can score and rebound when he wants to. It seems to me that if Jimmy gets Malik and Welch to go with Penn and Horn at the very least...that could be a potentially dominant backcourt in this league...if these guys do what they sound like they do on paper. Welch averaged about 3.5 apg in the stats on maxpreps. There were no turnover stats but given those assists stats you have to figure he's a better passer than Nico every was. Talent could override even Jimmy next year with these 2 guys especially. With growth from Penn and Horn over the summer and these guys potential natural all-around talent, it could go pretty well. I really like the potential here. Tariq may be a better defending/smoother version of Shivers. He's good and could certainly help but these other 2 seem like they could potentially redefine (with Penn and Horn) the Siena backcourt into the best we've seen since Fran. Penn, Malik, Welch, and Johnson could all make defensive plays and get steals...while Horn goes out there is able to be that Ryan Oliver+ and just score and be a calming 6th man type. And, on paper, they'd all take ok care of the ball. It could put them right up there (or even higher because of rebounding and D)with the backcourts of Quinny, Iona, and Canisius. I'm really anxious to see if these kids commit. It would be, by far, Jimmy's biggest coaching coup since it was decided that Wright and Long would follow him from Loyola. JP needs these guys to commit pronto, the longer it goes without getting a verbal is a death spiral for him...........plus, he still needs another athletic 4/5 type player that is better than Friday-Fisher-Prince, if 2 more kids leave other than Degnan & Smithen, he has room to upgrade in that spot and then fill 1 more with a versatile 2/3 type wing..............
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