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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 28, 2018 20:03:04 GMT -5
with the many posters on here, that have different points of view, was curious to see what you all think the program should be...........and keep in mind, this should be kept to a realistic stance (one that can achieved based upon mid-major status and all other necessary commitments including financials), that means not getting to the Final 4 or winning the NCAA Championship (sorry MTS), so let's here it................however, before you give your 2 cents, here is some interesting data to digest, and I give 2 comparisons (and both are very familiar yet similar to us) to swallow...........
the Iona Gaels led by Tim Cluess (currently in his 8th yr at the helm, which began in 2010), have 8 consecutive seasons of 20 or more wins (1yr is attributed to Kevin Willard) and they have a solid shot at 20 more wins this yr.........Cluess has won 75% of his MAAC games overall, and he has gone to post season each of his 7 completed seasons..........
Season record:
2016-17 22-13
2015-16 22-11
2014-15 26-9
2013-14 22-11
2012-13 20-14
2011-12 25-8
2010-11 25-12
2009-10 21-10 (Kevin Willard)
the Vermont Catamounts are led by John Becker (currently in his 6th yr guiding them, which began in 2011), have 9 consecutive seasons of 20 or more wins (the last 5 yrs under Becker and 4 yrs prior to that with Mike Lonegran), and they will blow past 20+ wins easily this yr for the 10th consecutive time..........since the 2001 season (that is 16 completed seasons), Vermont has won 20+ games in 14 of those seasons (this season will make it 15 of 17 hitting that mark)............in those 16 seasons, they have gone to 13 post seasons (6 NCAA, 3 NIT, 4 CBI), and they will be in post season again this yr............
Season record:
2016-17 29-6
2015-16 23-14
2014-15 20-14
2013-14 22-10
2012-13 21-12
2011-12 24-12 (Becker era begins)
2010-11 23-9
2009-10 25-10
2008-09 24-9
2007-08 16-15
2006-07 25-8
2005-06 13-17 (Lonegran era begins)
2004-05 25-7
2003-04 22-9
2002-03 21-12
2001-02 21-8 (still under Tom Brennan)
NOW, I know some of you are going to point to UVM being in the AEast where they can rack up wins against dreck teams, but the point is they still keep winning, you still have to play the games no matter what...........plus they have made it a habit to go out in the OCC slate to play some very good teams (always on the road, since no one wants to go to Burlington for a game)...........they have thrived under 2 coaching changes after Brennan as well
the comparison to Iona is a little more relevant since they are in the same league as Siena..............but they have experienced 2 coaching changes since a successful Ruland......
I give these 2 examples, because I feel Siena should be equipped to have that same kind of run......again, it doesn't mean winning the title every yr or even dancing in NCAA every yr, but post season should achieved in 7 out of every 10yrs, that is very very doable.......I don't think that either of those schools have "considerable" advantages over Siena in any particular area, and in fact as has been stated here FOREVER of the PLUS resources (etc) that Siena has to "similar" schools, we should stack up nicely to each of them..................in fact, I will be so bold as to say that a DOWN YEAR at Siena would translate to a season at .500 (or very close to it), certainly not SINGLE DIGIT wins (or losing 2/3 of your schedule), to me that is a red flag of something more egregiously going wrong on with the program..........and this is not to compromise the values that the college has set forth, striving to continue to recruit student/athletes who can successfully work for a completed degree (by the way, that is also being done at both Iona & Vermont)............
the forum is open, all opinions are welcomed............
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Jan 28, 2018 20:30:55 GMT -5
Minimum expectations as stated numerous times:
4 out of 5 successful seasons. Defined as either a top 150 rpi finish or a non conference post season tournament appearance. One out of the 5 must be an nit or NCAA appearance.
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Post by MTS on Jan 28, 2018 20:44:30 GMT -5
I don't see why Siena can't do what Iona and Vermont have done. They're not Butler and Gonzaga. Siena actually has many advantages over both the Gaels and Catamounts.
Siena's stated goal was at one time (is it still?) to compete for the MAAC championship every year. That doesn't mean expecting to win it but always being in the mix.
Siena should NEVER have a losing record. They should NEVER not be in at least the top 5 as long as they are in the MAAC. I would expect to win a MAAC championship at least once in every player's career. 5 out of 10 years in the NCAA or NIT tournaments. A capable seed in the NCAAs (winning is often up to the match-up) but Siena should have at least have a chance to do some damage there. EVERY game matters - not just the MAAC or the MAAC tournament. EVERY GAME!
Siena made either the NCAA (5) or the NIT (2) in 7 out of 12 years from 1999-2010 - there's no reason we can't do that again. This run spanned multiple coaches and players so it wasn't just "Fran's teams". Siena also had 11 straight winning seasons from 1983-1994.
We'll see how important Siena really takes the basketball program in about 5 weeks.
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sky
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Post by sky on Jan 28, 2018 21:33:49 GMT -5
For me it's simple...just keep moving forward...small steps are fine
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Jan 28, 2018 21:55:34 GMT -5
One has to add to the question how both UVM and Iona have been able to retain and or continue with a successful philosophy while Siena has not. More important question is that of the mindset for the future for the program from the Board. Obviously the fans were led astray by the supposed mission statement to continue to build the program then the school, fan base as well as the area have received 8 years of sub par product with no growth in the foreseeable future.
Only way Siena moves forward and returns to some semblance of its former winning ways is to have a change of policy at the board level. To be fair the admin has challenges academically, as all private colleges do, but if they had had a continumn with the mission statement their name would have been more prvelant in the application process.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 29, 2018 7:02:17 GMT -5
mine have been beaten out of me.
they were:
top 3 finish in the maac as a regular occurrence. Post season play in 8 or 9 out of ten years. With 3 to 4 of those being NCAA appearances. Continue to recruit NY NJ PA area as it has been the lifeblood of Siena basketball. Recruit talented and athletic players that perform well in a up-tempo environment that pushes on offense and presses on defense. Create a culture and expectation of a style of play that becomes well known for "Siena basketball". Perform true coaching searches when necessary that result in a pool of highly talented candidates that include up-and-comers as well as veterans who have achieved success.
they are:
I expect Siena to finish at or near the bottom of the MAAC. I expect "coaching searches" to continue to be no more than a game of pin the tail on the donkey. I expect Siena to continue to diminish the importance of the mens basketball team while not sharing that information openly in order to collect more season ticket revenue until the fan base figures it out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 8:56:10 GMT -5
To provide statistics that I can analyze.
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Post by gosaints on Jan 29, 2018 9:09:50 GMT -5
For the Siena Amin to decide/announce what level of competition they want Siena to strive to be competitive in. i.e. DI or DII and then publicly commit to be competitive at that level year in and year out.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 29, 2018 9:17:10 GMT -5
I am a bit surprised so far, as to the lack of posters responding to this question (or some that aren't willing to go on record for some strange reason), as everyone seems to be able to come on this board with comments/observations on many subjects...............IF you post on this board, you are indeed (and one would think) a fan of Siena basketball, no matter how long you have followed them nor the distance/location from being able to attend games live...........have many of you decided to be ambivalent now on the state of affairs for the hoop program, or simply just don't care (I find that hard to believe because the vast majority are always on this board daily)............so let's go fluffers & haters, your chance to give your view................ AND maybe this thread can be PINNED towards the top of board (what do you think Tony)  ? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 9:47:38 GMT -5
I am a bit surprised so far, as to the lack of posters responding to this question (or some that aren't willing to go on record for some strange reason), as everyone seems to be able to come on this board with comments/observations on many subjects...............IF you post on this board, you are indeed (and one would think) a fan of Siena basketball, no matter how long you have followed them nor the distance/location from being able to attend games live...........have many of you decided to be ambivalent now on the state of affairs for the hoop program, or simply just don't care (I find that hard to believe because the vast majority are always on this board daily)............so let's go fluffers & haters, your chance to give your view................ AND maybe this thread can be PINNED towards the top of board (what do you think Tony) ? I was being serious. I would prefer to win, of course. However, the analyzing of stats gets me through the day to day. I'd like to feel that Siena was moving forward and was a factor in more seasons than not...and by factor...I mean generally be top 5 in the conference and win at least a regular season title every 5 or 6 years. I have no delusions about mid-major basketball. If you're in it for national glory, most likely you'll be disappointed. I like having the new player, the new stats, the new coach, and the new thing to analyze most. It gets me through my day to day. I grew up as a die hard Yankees fan in Massachusetts...and I drifted from that because I grew up during the Don Mattingly era and when the dynasty came from '96 on ...it was glorious...and then, at some point, I got sick of winning a bit. I realized I like the underdogs more. Going to Siena provided me with my lifelong underdog. They can't be an underdog if you don't go through bumps along the road. The longer the road, the more glorious it is when they actually do win. So, in a way, I look at this 10 year stretch as a blessing. Everyone will be more appreciative of the magic when it happens. Iona, well, every title will just be another title to them. |
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Post by gosaints on Jan 29, 2018 9:58:11 GMT -5
I am a bit surprised so far, as to the lack of posters responding to this question (or some that aren't willing to go on record for some strange reason), as everyone seems to be able to come on this board with comments/observations on many subjects...............IF you post on this board, you are indeed (and one would think) a fan of Siena basketball, no matter how long you have followed them nor the distance/location from being able to attend games live...........have many of you decided to be ambivalent now on the state of affairs for the hoop program, or simply just don't care (I find that hard to believe because the vast majority are always on this board daily)............so let's go fluffers & haters, your chance to give your view................ AND maybe this thread can be PINNED towards the top of board (what do you think Tony) ? As I just posted on another thread, Siena fans increasing "indifferance" to the mens BB program may be a contributing factor? |
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 29, 2018 9:59:32 GMT -5
My expectation is the same year in and year out: Finishing in the top half every season and be in a position to win the MAAC every season. Given the College, the history, budget and resources of the program and comparing to the other member schools, I think that is a reasonable and achievable expectation. A run like FM had, tossed in every now and then is a bonus and much appreciated. Any post season legit tourney (NCAA, NIT) participation is also great.
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Post by MTS on Jan 29, 2018 10:01:27 GMT -5
I am a bit surprised so far, as to the lack of posters responding to this question (or some that aren't willing to go on record for some strange reason), as everyone seems to be able to come on this board with comments/observations on many subjects...............IF you post on this board, you are indeed (and one would think) a fan of Siena basketball, no matter how long you have followed them nor the distance/location from being able to attend games live...........have many of you decided to be ambivalent now on the state of affairs for the hoop program, or simply just don't care (I find that hard to believe because the vast majority are always on this board daily)............so let's go fluffers & haters, your chance to give your view................ AND maybe this thread can be PINNED towards the top of board (what do you think Tony) ? I was being serious. I would prefer to win, of course. However, the analyzing of stats gets me through the day to day. I'd like to feel that Siena was moving forward and was a factor in more seasons than not...and by factor...I mean generally be top 5 in the conference and win at least a regular season title every 5 or 6 years. I have no delusions about mid-major basketball. If you're in it for national glory, most likely you'll be disappointed. I like having the new player, the new stats, the new coach, and the new thing to analyze most. It gets me through my day to day. I grew up as a die hard Yankees fan in Massachusetts...and I drifted from that because I grew up during the Don Mattingly era and when the dynasty came from '96 on ...it was glorious...and then, at some point, I got sick of winning a bit. I realized I like the underdogs more. Going to Siena provided me with my lifelong underdog. They can't be an underdog if you don't go through bumps along the road. The longer the road, the more glorious it is when they actually do win. So, in a way, I look at this 10 year stretch as a blessing. Everyone will be more appreciative of the magic when it happens. Iona, well, every title will just be another title to them. Nope. You never get tired of winning. Siena will always be in underdog in the grand scheme of college hoops so don't worry about that. But I'm perfectly fine with being an "overdog" in the MAAC not 8 years of a shit-sandwich. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 10:10:21 GMT -5
I was being serious. I would prefer to win, of course. However, the analyzing of stats gets me through the day to day. I'd like to feel that Siena was moving forward and was a factor in more seasons than not...and by factor...I mean generally be top 5 in the conference and win at least a regular season title every 5 or 6 years. I have no delusions about mid-major basketball. If you're in it for national glory, most likely you'll be disappointed. I like having the new player, the new stats, the new coach, and the new thing to analyze most. It gets me through my day to day. I grew up as a die hard Yankees fan in Massachusetts...and I drifted from that because I grew up during the Don Mattingly era and when the dynasty came from '96 on ...it was glorious...and then, at some point, I got sick of winning a bit. I realized I like the underdogs more. Going to Siena provided me with my lifelong underdog. They can't be an underdog if you don't go through bumps along the road. The longer the road, the more glorious it is when they actually do win. So, in a way, I look at this 10 year stretch as a blessing. Everyone will be more appreciative of the magic when it happens. Iona, well, every title will just be another title to them. Nope. You never get tired of winning. Siena will always be in underdog in the grand scheme of college hoops so don't worry about that. But I'm perfectly fine with being an "overdog" in the MAAC not 8 years of a shit-sandwich. I'm just saying that I try not to let the Ws and the Ls define my fandom. Too many Ls for too long will wear on everyone, naturally. But there is a reason why I post so much in the summer. Everything is new, unknown and ready to be analyzed. It's a great time of year. Half way through the year, things get a bit desensitized. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 10:11:31 GMT -5
I think expectations are a stretch since for the last 7+ years the school/Athletic Department has sent mixed messages - send us your $'s so we can build a facility to attract talent to consistently be at the top of the MAAC while settling for coaching that may only achieve that goal every flukey so-so often. My wishes are for a Program that finishes in the top third of the conference 75% of the time and in the top half 100% of time - again, a wish. Also a head coach we can be proud of who provides an entertaining level of play and one who values the student part of student athlete by ensuring graduation in 5 years. Lastly, an "all about the MAAC" goal that is centered on winning the conference so post-season is realized without having to buy our way in. Winning the tournament should come now and again by default if we target being #1 by season's end.
OBTW, it would be nice to hire a head coach who sticks around at the end of the season to enable a Season ending banquet WHEN PLAY IS COMPLETE vice having an early banquet to facilitate the coach's vacation.
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