glen
Team Captain
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
Posts: 1,851
Dislikes:
|
Post by glen on Jan 30, 2018 11:22:50 GMT -5
Nola and Papi - I think you both would be OK with consistently coming out on the good side of the battle to avoid the PIG round. I envy you as you've had a great 8-year run to watch with Mitch overcoming the injury bug and Jimmy winning the CBI. It's like a Final Four lite. With the high transfer rate there are always tons of new faces to get excited about. Seriously it must be like spending the winter in Disney the last 8 years.
|
|
Papi
Assistant Coach
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Misinformation Troll
Posts: 5,602
Dislikes:
|
Post by Papi on Jan 30, 2018 17:28:32 GMT -5
I don't expect anything. I go to the games to be entertained win or lose. Winning is great but nobody out here can control what happens. Some of you live in a Dreamland but you will be disappointed more than not with the wild expectations. Step back and take a deep breath, Siena basketball doesn't owe any of you anything but what it is.
|
|
|
Post by greengold4ever on Jan 30, 2018 20:04:27 GMT -5
I don't expect anything. I go to the games to be entertained win or lose. Winning is great but nobody out here can control what happens. Some of you live in a Dreamland but you will be disappointed more than not with the wild expectations. Step back and take a deep breath, Siena basketball doesn't owe any of you anything but what it is. ok, this explains it............if you were UNAWARE, this is a Siena mens basketball forum for fans............YOU have defined yourself as someone who goes to watch JUST for entertainment...........perfect, you no longer have any value to what you say since it doesn't matter to you what happens in the game, although I am sure for some bizarre reason if there is a "gambling" angle you are involved with, then it matters plenty............additionally you have no cahonnes to tell anyone else on here that the expectations they have are wild (since you have none to compare it to)...........why don't you move to Switzerland, they enjoy being neutral just enough to piss off everyone...............the point of all of this is that both Vermont & Iona have enjoyed considerable success for long stretches (for UVM, it is an incredible accomplishment), and neither of those schools have the facilities, resources, financial commitment to what Siena has, that isn't made up but cold hard facts...........it is NOT unrealistic to think that Siena should be in the same situation as both of them........the entertainment dollar is pulled in so many directions today for many people, and if Siena wants to continue to charge a premium price for their product (way more than any other maac school), then they need to be accountable for that product, they do owe that to those attending...................
|
|
Papi
Assistant Coach
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Misinformation Troll
Posts: 5,602
Dislikes:
|
Post by Papi on Jan 30, 2018 20:48:26 GMT -5
I don't expect anything. I go to the games to be entertained win or lose. Winning is great but nobody out here can control what happens. Some of you live in a Dreamland but you will be disappointed more than not with the wild expectations. Step back and take a deep breath, Siena basketball doesn't owe any of you anything but what it is. ok, this explains it............if you were UNAWARE, this is a Siena mens basketball forum for fans............YOU have defined yourself as someone who goes to watch JUST for entertainment...........perfect, you no longer have any value to what you say since it doesn't matter to you what happens in the game, although I am sure for some bizarre reason if there is a "gambling" angle you are involved with, then it matters plenty............additionally you have no cahonnes to tell anyone else on here that the expectations they have are wild (since you have none to compare it to)...........why don't you move to Switzerland, they enjoy being neutral just enough to piss off everyone...............the point of all of this is that both Vermont & Iona have enjoyed considerable success for long stretches (for UVM, it is an incredible accomplishment), and neither of those schools have the facilities, resources, financial commitment to what Siena has, that isn't made up but cold hard facts...........it is NOT unrealistic to think that Siena should be in the same situation as both of them........the entertainment dollar is pulled in so many directions today for many people, and if Siena wants to continue to charge a premium price for their product (way more than any other maac school), then they need to be accountable for that product, they do owe that to those attending................... I wouldn't go if I wasn't a fan. If you bail on your team in down years, I don't consider that a real fan. Fairweather or bandwagon fans are everywhere.
|
|
|
Post by greengold4ever on Jan 30, 2018 21:31:28 GMT -5
ok, this explains it............if you were UNAWARE, this is a Siena mens basketball forum for fans............YOU have defined yourself as someone who goes to watch JUST for entertainment...........perfect, you no longer have any value to what you say since it doesn't matter to you what happens in the game, although I am sure for some bizarre reason if there is a "gambling" angle you are involved with, then it matters plenty............additionally you have no cahonnes to tell anyone else on here that the expectations they have are wild (since you have none to compare it to)...........why don't you move to Switzerland, they enjoy being neutral just enough to piss off everyone...............the point of all of this is that both Vermont & Iona have enjoyed considerable success for long stretches (for UVM, it is an incredible accomplishment), and neither of those schools have the facilities, resources, financial commitment to what Siena has, that isn't made up but cold hard facts...........it is NOT unrealistic to think that Siena should be in the same situation as both of them........the entertainment dollar is pulled in so many directions today for many people, and if Siena wants to continue to charge a premium price for their product (way more than any other maac school), then they need to be accountable for that product, they do owe that to those attending................... I wouldn't go if I wasn't a fan. If you bail on your team in down years, I don't consider that a real fan. Fairweather or bandwagon fans are everywhere. you still don't get it, the loyal fans that stay deserve something better..........they really do...........
|
|
|
Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Jan 31, 2018 9:27:07 GMT -5
Expectations should always be to the high end of what your market can support.
In this market:
Siena can be again, as it once was, "the only game in town".
As good as Will Brown has done in recent years at UA, no matter how well he does, unless NYS commits to getting the state involved in major college athletics, their ceiling is no where near Siena's ceiling.
What the only game in town translates to is:
- playing in a 15,000 seat arena - having a history of playing in...and winning games in...post season tournaments (NCAA, NIT, CBI) - having a history of competing with and beating Power Conference Schools. - having a history of successful Siena coaches move on to Power Conference Schools because of this success; which is a good thing. - a more than solid season ticket holder fan base that when the team was good, competed as being a top 50/75 program in the country when it came to attendance figures. - a strong local alumni base. - a brand that though dimming rapidly, still exists; and that if successful on the court, can and will attract "new" local and regional college basketball fans, and most importantly, their young families that are not alumni, into becoming "Siena College" basketball fans; which in turn leads to more local kids applying to Siena when they grow up. - a program that when successful, owns all of the media outlets attention from November through March in this market, which again, leads to more exposure, and more applications. -an Administration with a vision and a dream that they are willing to act on and follow through on.
I have said it before. All these things should lead to Siena being a Mini-Mid Major Regionally Based Syracuse.
There is no reason this cannot be attained.
That is their ceiling. So their expectation should be close to that.
A Top 50/75 team. A member of the A-10 or a similar multi-bid conference. A fan base of 9,000-10,000 per game. A non conference schedule that includes one or two Power Conference Schools coming to play in Albany because if they lose to a Top 50 Siena in Albany, it's not a season ending loss for that Power Conference school.
They need to find their most affluent 5 or 6 alumni and sell this vision to them. Ask them to sink $20-$30 million dollars of their own hard earned money into the whole athletic program. The whole purpose would be for us to getting into a multi-bid conference where every team we play against plays in an arena and not some gym.
If they can sell this vision to these types of alumni, then we could be on the fast track to growing beyond our expectations.
Remember, schools like Butler and Gonzaga were once doormats in the college basketball world. They both got lucky with getting two great coaches that built their programs in different ways (one very methodical and one very quick).
Their programs are not so unattainable to reach when you already have the arena, the fan base,the local alumni, the media, and the perfectly centrally located geographic point to three and four star recruits, where you are within 3 to 4 hrs of every single talent rich northeast urban market.
And most importantly to have, a vision and determination to follow through on this vision like its the most important thing in your life.
If you have all that to go with location, location, location, the rest will take care of itself out on the court and in the recruiting wars in family households all across the northeast.
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Posts: 10,022
Dislikes:
|
Post by gorvy on Jan 31, 2018 9:32:08 GMT -5
All I know is trae young could have beat Siena by himself yesterday.
|
|
|
Post by greengold4ever on Jan 31, 2018 10:16:42 GMT -5
All I know is trae young could have beat Siena by himself yesterday. genious JP would have put ALL 5 players on Young to slow him down (instead of 2 like he did to Curry).................lol
|
|
|
Post by greenblood on Jan 31, 2018 11:37:51 GMT -5
In this market: Siena can be again, as it once was, "the only game in town". Read more: sienahoop.proboards.com/thread/5689/expectations-siena-mens-hoop-program?page=3#ixzz55mT9VBDHThose days are over. The area could support two STRONG mid major BBALL teams and that is what it should be. Siena has allowed itself to sprial downward in obscurity. Two strong programs is how you set up a cross town rivalry that actually means something. Two strong programs, two coaches that are competitive in their leagues and RESPECT each other intensify the 'rivalry' to a point where everyone wants to be in the building or at an exclusive closed circuit feed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 11:56:32 GMT -5
Considering my admittedly unpopular voicing of Jimmy's strengths with regards to his rebounding and foul drawing strategy...I'm going to present an even more unpopular scenario which I'm not even sure that I want to hear about.
I have a great condemnation for many of Jimmy's decisions however, I think he's a better overall coach than Sydney, Masiello, Maker, Casey, results wise Dunne, and maybe even Rice in the long term. While he may screw up his upside with bad decisions he's mostly a middler and the rebounding margin tends to keep them in a lot of games.
Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that Siena surprises here on out fueled by rebounding margin as Horn and Richard return to the lineup and the rest of the PIG teams' inconsistency from game to game. And, as a result, Siena manages to fight its way to a 6th place finish because of this. A win vs. Manhattan puts them 1/2 game out of 6th.
So Jimmy fights his way back to the coaches' poll finish....and then he lands Welch and Co.
It IS plausable that with a potential overall depth upgrade at PG and better ballhawks it leads to a better team turnover margin, better overall defense, and the overall driving athletes closing the FT disparity gap that Siena could then surprise quite a bit next year and save Jimmy's job.
As I delve deeper into the numbers and understand more WHY Siena isn't getting blown out, I can't help but wonder about this scenario a little bit.
Maybe they'll continue suck the rest of the way and he won't get the chance. But, in the numbers and based on the style of the potential recruits, it seems possible to me. He could even still continue to screw up the scouting and gameplans quite a bit and find a way to get there.
The rebound margin and drawing FTs could offer him that chance. The top 4 next year is looking like Rider, Iona, Canisius, Quinny...and they may still not be world beaters. Then there's potentially a big dropoff to the next tier. There's a BIG opening for team #5.
Nobody wants to hear this, and I'd love to find a coach who is going to win us games instead of just a caretaker, but nobody is talking about this chance right now and I'm just throwing it out there to stir the pot a bit.
|
|
|
Post by goldsaint17 on Jan 31, 2018 12:19:01 GMT -5
Considering my admittedly unpopular voicing of Jimmy's strengths with regards to his rebounding and foul drawing strategy...I'm going to a present an even more unpopular scenario which I'm not even sure that I want to hear about. I have a great condemnation for many of Jimmy's decisions however, I think he's a better overall coach than Sydney, Masiello, Maker, Casey, results wise Dunne, and maybe even Rice in the long term. While he may screw up his upside with bad decisions he's mostly a middler and the rebounding margin tends to keep them in a lot of games. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that Siena surprises here on out fueled by rebounding margin as Horn and Richard return to the lineup and the rest of the PIG teams' inconsistency from game to game. And, as a result, Siena manages to fight its way to a 6th place finish because of this. A win vs. Manhattan puts them 1/2 game out of 6th. So Jimmy fights his way back to the coaches' poll finish....and then he lands Welch and Co. It IS plausable that with a potential overall depth upgrade at PG and better ballhawks it leads to a better team turnover margin, better overall defense, and the overall driving athletes closing the FT disparity gap that Siena could then surprise quite a bit next year and save Jimmy's job. As I delve deeper into the numbers and understand more WHY Siena isn't getting blown out, I can't help but wonder about this scenario a little bit. Maybe they'll continue suck the rest of the way and he won't get the chance. But, in the numbers and based on the style of the potential recruits, it seems possible to me. He could even still continue to screw up the scouting and gameplans quite a bit and find a way to get there. The rebound margin and drawing FTs could offer him that chance. The top 4 next year is looking like Rider, Iona, Canisius, Quinny...and they may still not be world beaters. Then there's potentially a big dropoff to the next tier. There's a BIG opening for team #5. Nobody wants to hear this, and I'd love to find a coach who is going to win us games instead of just a caretaker, but nobody is talking about this chance right now and I'm just throwing it out there to stir the pot a bit. I pretty much agree with what you are saying. I question whether Sienaccan afford to keep him from an image and ticket sales perspective, but I agree that if he gets to 6th and probably even 7th he’s coming back for one more year. With recruits coming in and everyone back, we could absolutely make some noise, especially with the always-relevant possibility of up-transfers from the high-level underclassmen at Rider and Canisius.
|
|
|
Post by greengold4ever on Jan 31, 2018 12:28:08 GMT -5
Considering my admittedly unpopular voicing of Jimmy's strengths with regards to his rebounding and foul drawing strategy...I'm going to a present an even more unpopular scenario which I'm not even sure that I want to hear about. I have a great condemnation for many of Jimmy's decisions however, I think he's a better overall coach than Sydney, Masiello, Maker, Casey, results wise Dunne, and maybe even Rice in the long term. While he may screw up his upside with bad decisions he's mostly a middler and the rebounding margin tends to keep them in a lot of games. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that Siena surprises here on out fueled by rebounding margin as Horn and Richard return to the lineup and the rest of the PIG teams' inconsistency from game to game. And, as a result, Siena manages to fight its way to a 6th place finish because of this. A win vs. Manhattan puts them 1/2 game out of 6th. So Jimmy fights his way back to the coaches' poll finish....and then he lands Welch and Co. It IS plausable that with a potential overall depth upgrade at PG and better ballhawks it leads to a better team turnover margin, better overall defense, and the overall driving athletes closing the FT disparity gap that Siena could then surprise quite a bit next year and save Jimmy's job. As I delve deeper into the numbers and understand more WHY Siena isn't getting blown out, I can't help but wonder about this scenario a little bit. Maybe they'll continue suck the rest of the way and he won't get the chance. But, in the numbers and based on the style of the potential recruits, it seems possible to me. He could even still continue to screw up the scouting and gameplans quite a bit and find a way to get there. The rebound margin and drawing FTs could offer him that chance. The top 4 next year is looking like Rider, Iona, Canisius, Quinny...and they may still not be world beaters. Then there's potentially a big dropoff to the next tier. There's a BIG opening for team #5. Nobody wants to hear this, and I'd love to find a coach who is going to win us games instead of just a caretaker, but nobody is talking about this chance right now and I'm just throwing it out there to stir the pot a bit. I pretty much agree with what you are saying. I question whether Sienaccan afford to keep him from an image and ticket sales perspective, but I agree that if he gets to 6th and probably even 7th he’s coming back for one more year. With recruits coming in and everyone back, we could absolutely make some noise, especially with the always-relevant possibility of up-transfers from the high-level underclassmen at Rider and Canisius. lot of IF's there in that scenario.............as much as you say win totals might bring him back which is somewhat true..........it is likely more tied into financials instead, from what I am hearing.......................but at that, should he return, he needs 4-5 more players, and they need to be immediate impact guys, no arguing against that, and yet saying that, he would need to make a significant jump up in the standings next yr (top half) to survive next yr for certain.............
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 12:29:08 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with what you are saying. I question whether Sienaccan afford to keep him from an image and ticket sales perspective, but I agree that if he gets to 6th and probably even 7th he’s coming back for one more year. With recruits coming in and everyone back, we could absolutely make some noise, especially with the always-relevant possibility of up-transfers from the high-level underclassmen at Rider and Canisius. Rider's peak is limited by their poor FT shooting and lack of guard depth. I don't think they'll improve much more than what they are. They're just taking advantage of other's misery. And the pieces they'll add are at positions who have solid starters...so likely non-factors. Iona will again have to reload and you never know what they'll get and if it will be good enough to go from good to great. Canisius loses Crumpton so..how much they improve starts with how they replace him and fix the frontcourt...but they don't have many open schollies. I think just 1 left that they'll use to replace Planincic. Quinny, well, Dunleavy is probably going to find a way to annihilate us all with all his new talent. Even Siena can't go toe to toe with Quinny's longterm inherent advantages. But, a decent Siena team, could conceivably compete for even top 3 or 4 next year especially if Iona, Canisius, or Rider faulter a bit. The better bet is beating out maybe a Monmouth or FF for top 5 which seems very achievable. Monmouth likely stays the same trading Tilghman for Rutherford...Manhattan loses a ton...FF loses Nelson..SPU loses Griffin..and Niagara loses both Scott AND Dukes. That 2nd tier looks VERY unintimidating.
|
|
|
Post by greengold4ever on Jan 31, 2018 12:37:29 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with what you are saying. I question whether Sienaccan afford to keep him from an image and ticket sales perspective, but I agree that if he gets to 6th and probably even 7th he’s coming back for one more year. With recruits coming in and everyone back, we could absolutely make some noise, especially with the always-relevant possibility of up-transfers from the high-level underclassmen at Rider and Canisius. Rider's peak is limited by their poor FT shooting and lack of guard depth. I don't think they'll improve much more than what they are. They're just taking advantage of other's misery. And the pieces they'll add are at positions who have solid starters...so likely non-factors. Iona will again have to reload and you never know what they'll get and if it will be good enough to go from good to great. Canisius loses Crumpton so..how much they improve starts with how they replace him and fix the frontcourt...but they don't have many open schollies. I think just 1 left that they'll use to replace Planincic. Quinny, well, Dunleavy is probably going to find a way to annihilate us all with all his new talent. Even Siena can't go toe to toe with Quinny's longterm inherent advantages. But, a decent Siena team, could conceivably compete for even top 3 or 4 next year especially if Iona, Canisius, or Rider faulter a bit. The better bet is beating out maybe a Monmouth or FF for top 5 which seems very achievable. Monmouth likely stays the same trading Tilghman for Rutherford...Manhattan loses a ton...FF loses Nelson..SPU loses Griffin..and Niagara loses both Scott AND Dukes. That 2nd tier looks VERY unintimidating. I can tell you that .500 next yr with that described above is not where they want to be headed..............that was somewhat of the target goal for this yr after losing the 4 seniors.....................the leash is short now and maybe be really tight next yr if he is kept around..............
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 12:45:45 GMT -5
I can tell you that .500 next yr with that described above is not where they want to be headed..............that was somewhat of the target goal for this yr after losing the 4 seniors.....................the leash is short now and maybe be really tight next yr if he is kept around.............. Right, financials could keep him around this year but then a potentially easy route to the 5 spot with even a only slight improvement could make the decision more difficult next year. That's all I'm saying. All the shittiest coaches are losing key guys which could prevent them from improving. The typical PIG team coaches are the ones losing the most (aside from Marist). If Jimmy lands these kids and there's some excitement over them and they succeed in getting that 5 spot, you never know what the administration will do. If he fails next year again, he'd be gone either way, but I'm just putting this out there. He could, theoretically, make the decision difficult if they don't cut him loose this March. If Siena manages to finish 6th or 7th this year and he lands all that talent, the coaches will probably pick them 5th in preseason given where the rest of the teams are at. A lot of that will come down to Friday and the games vs. FF.
|
|