Liberals and conservatives

[SaintsFan]

Jan 16, 2014 14:20:33 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

As Milton Friedman once said spending should be controlled by a constitutional amendment. A percentage of GDP or some reasonable formula. If an agreement can not be made then cuts across the board until the budget it balanced.

With regard to corporate welfare, most true conservatives despise it. It picks winners and losers. Bailouts are the same. Government sponsored or subsidized business like nanotechnology and NYS gambling, is also not acceptable.

The free market should control; are you paying attention? Stop hanging on to your party like it is your favorite team.

Glen and I are free thinkers, you on the other hand are just following your party ideology. Come join us we would love to have you.

Again. . I wasnt saying I had the answers. You guys claim you have them. I nearly thumbed up your post until you pulled your monkey shit out of your ass again with insults. You people simply can't help yourselves

[CellarRat]

Jan 16, 2014 15:15:01 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

Jan 16, 2014 14:20:33 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

As Milton Friedman once said spending should be controlled by a constitutional amendment. A percentage of GDP or some reasonable formula. If an agreement can not be made then cuts across the board until the budget it balanced.

With regard to corporate welfare, most true conservatives despise it. It picks winners and losers. Bailouts are the same. Government sponsored or subsidized business like nanotechnology and NYS gambling, is also not acceptable.

The free market should control; are you paying attention? Stop hanging on to your party like it is your favorite team.

Glen and I are free thinkers, you on the other hand are just following your party ideology. Come join us we would love to have you.

Again. . I wasnt saying I had the answers. You guys claim you have them. I nearly thumbed up your post until you pulled your monkey shit out of your ass again with insults. You people simply can't help yourselves

I don't mind your passion, but your posts lack any substance. Similar to misspractice. You pick what you want to talk about rather than getting into a constructive discourse. I told you that true conservatives believe in a small limited government. Corporate welfare would be inconsistent with the proper role of government according to most conservatives and libertarians that believe in a free market. (By the way, I do not think Corporations are people, I also, consistenty, do not think that unions are either.) I am just showing you that the dems and republicans are not pure political parties, in fact, they are a lot more alike than they are different. The Republican Party has become more and more liberal to the point that I could hardly tell the difference until President Obama entered the picture. Any party could look conservative next to his administration as he is easily the most liberal president we have had to date - in fact, he has done what he has promised, he fundamentally changed this country. I would argue for the worse.

If you read the wsj article I linked I would love to know your thoughts on that. I really do not want to aggravate you, I just ask that you keep an open mind about the comments that have been posted.

Either way we can both enjoy our Saints - I am excited about that! Go Saints!

[indian82]

Take the partisan sides out of it - the first thing I would do is greatly reduce the role/influence of lobbyists and political contributors (that would get left and right taking care of corporations and unions). With a lot of that out of the way, work on tax reform. Simplify it greatly and get almost everybody to pay something.

[CellarRat]

Jan 16, 2014 16:45:31 GMT -5 indian82 said:

Take the partisan sides out of it - the first thing I would do is greatly reduce the role/influence of lobbyists and political contributors (that would get left and right taking care of corporations and unions). With a lot of that out of the way, work on tax reform. Simplify it greatly and get almost everybody to pay something.

Exactly!! But that is the point. The government should not make laws or regulations that favor any individual or group. That is inconsistent with a free market.

[glen]

SF - Do you consider yourself a leftist? A statist?

It's so funny listening to people on the left screech about the right. I remember when there was supposed to be a new tone after the Gabby Giffords shooting. For the most part it is mainstream Dems spitting the most venom. I don't see any new tone from them. During the September talks, Dem reps were calling Ts/Rs terrorists and bombers. New tone my arse. God forbid a T partier calls someone on the left a leftist. Yikes...how dare we. For the left it is all projection.

As for the core of the discussion - you didn't respond to my comment about state vs fed spending. The limited/federalist concept was supposed to be that the states did the heavy lifting. Why does the Fed govt have to be doing welfare programs? Shouldn't that be a state thing? Heck, shouldn't that be a local thing? Small government - that IS the T platform (social agendas are not part of it) is based on keeping it local. You have way more % input on your town officials than on county, state or federal. The smaller the government the better overall but that doesn't mean all programs need to go away.

[indian82]

Jan 16, 2014 17:15:47 GMT -5 glen said:

Why does the Fed govt have to be doing welfare programs? Shouldn't that be a state thing? Heck, shouldn't that be a local thing? Small government - that IS the T platform (social agendas are not part of it) is based on keeping it local. You have way more % input on your town officials than on county, state or federal. The smaller the government the better overall but that doesn't mean all programs need to go away.

That would work out well. Let's have hundreds or thousands of different ways to provide welfare.

[CellarRat]

news.yahoo.com/climate-change-disbelief-rises-america-180339949.html

Good article.

[CellarRat]

abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=21564812&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Article regarding budget that passed in senate. All dems voted for it and some republicans. Just shows how dems are the lock step party. Not one democrat was opposed! Wow what a consensus they have in their party. Sorry sf but you are wrong again.

Time for independents to start gutting both parties.

[CellarRat]

John Boehner Supports Spending Bill Funds For Troubled Nuclear Company, Despite Solyndra Outrage
www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/16/john-boehner-usec_n_4613320.html

I see very little difference with the parties before it was the spend (R) and spend more (D) party. With Obama, it is the spend and spend till we kill the the country party.

[SaintsFan]

Jan 17, 2014 3:52:44 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

John Boehner Supports Spending Bill Funds For Troubled Nuclear Company, Despite Solyndra Outrage
www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/16/john-boehner-usec_n_4613320.html

I see very little difference with the parties before it was the spend (R) and spend more (D) party. With Obama, it is the spend and spend till we kill the the country party.

You post this and attack Obama when it is a Republican looking to retain funds for a company in his home state. Wow.

[CellarRat]

Jan 17, 2014 8:07:05 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

Jan 17, 2014 3:52:44 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

John Boehner Supports Spending Bill Funds For Troubled Nuclear Company, Despite Solyndra Outrage
www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/16/john-boehner-usec_n_4613320.html

I see very little difference with the parties before it was the spend (R) and spend more (D) party. With Obama, it is the spend and spend till we kill the the country party.

You post this and attack Obama when it is a Republican looking to retain funds for a company in his home state. Wow.

You don't understand it because you are a homer, basically defending your party no matter what they do. My point is the Republican Party has lost its way and they are sometimes just as liberal as the dems. I don't belong to either party. I just like to look at the issues and remain objective. I have friends that are conservative that do the same thing you do except they defend the republicans. Just a bunch of homers on both sides. Although the homers are much worse on your side.

[SaintsFan]

Jan 17, 2014 8:16:34 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

Jan 17, 2014 8:07:05 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

You post this and attack Obama when it is a Republican looking to retain funds for a company in his home state. Wow.

You don't understand it because you are a homer. My point is the Republican Party has lost its way and they are sometimes just as liberal as the dems.

Any person is going to read your statement about this article as a minor dig against Republicans with a focused attack on Obama. The fact you can't see that in what you wrote says EVERYTHING. I'm not pro or against Obama. Your comment... attempted to blame him for something a Republican is doing... and you try to deny what you wrote? Really?

[glen]

SaintsFan - how would you describe your positions? Are you libertarian? Liberal? Conservative? Just curious.

[CellarRat]

Jan 17, 2014 8:24:45 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

Jan 17, 2014 8:16:34 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

You don't understand it because you are a homer. My point is the Republican Party has lost its way and they are sometimes just as liberal as the dems.

Any person is going to read your statement about this article as a minor dig against Republicans with a focused attack on Obama. The fact you can't see that in what you wrote says EVERYTHING. I'm not pro or against Obama. Your comment... attempted to blame him for something a Republican is doing... and you try to deny what you wrote? Really?

Follow along, Obama is the most liberal president we have had to date. How can any conservative, fiscal conservative, free market voter support his policies and agenda. You do, based on your posts. But you don't support him or his policies? You are not pro or against Obama? Really?

I try to be objective, you are just a supporter of your party. Although for some reason you don't want to admit it. Which is like most Americans, and that is why we have gridlock.

[indian82]

Jan 17, 2014 3:15:30 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=21564812&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Article regarding budget that passed in senate. All dems voted for it and some republicans. Just shows how dems are the lock step party. Not one democrat was opposed! Wow what a consensus they have in their party. Sorry sf but you are wrong again.

Time for independents to start gutting both parties.

CR - I certainly agree that we need more independents, but I will not say they need to 'gut' the parties. I think the Republican party has to be reformed from within - I don't see an Independent/Third Party being able to come to power in this environment anytime soon (this coming from somebody who's never belonged to a party and voted for John Anderson, Perot, Nader & wanted Hunstman, then Gary Johnson last year. But I finally realized that I would be wasting my vote, altho that was inevitable in NY anyway).

I probably agree with 90% of what you believe, however, I disagree with the way you say it, or more importantly with the way the leaders (Republicans) who would try to enact most of those those policies say it and the way they act. You cannot alienate 47% of the population (regardless of how those opinions get out) - you will never be in a position to change it. The Republicans have done a horrendous job of selling what they believe. It's a different world than when Reagan was President. In addition to demographics, there are almost infinite media outlets. They have to do better there and I agree it's starts at the lower levels; namely state govts and the House. This year's House elections are crucial. Hope the Republicans don't F**k it up again. But I see no reason to believe they won't.