indian82
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Post by indian82 on Jan 16, 2014 6:16:45 GMT -5
Disagree strongly there and I lean conservative. Keep talking like that and Hillary will eat you for lunch. So how do you think the Republicans can turn the tide in 2016? Reagan was not milquetoast and he took the majority of the states-twice. People have to be reeducated as to what made this country great. Carter gave us Reagan, only good thing he did. Obama will give us something special as well. At least that is the hope. I agree (for the most part) about what made this country great, but you are missing my point. Reagan held his ground without vilifying the opposition. In fact he talked and negotiated with them. If you think he got everything he wanted, you're mistaken. Did he just run over Tip O'Neill. I don't think so. If the Republicans ever expect to get the WH back (and actually accomplish anything) they have to find a leader who can unite rather than divide. That's all I see these days. The first thing they have to do is get the deficit/debt down. And we need a leader who can work with both sides to come up with a creative solution that the majority can agree upon. I'll ask you again. How do you think the Republicans can beat Hillary (most likely) in 2016? |
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glen
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Post by glen on Jan 16, 2014 9:33:44 GMT -5
OK, here we go:
"UN climate chief Christiana Figueres said that democracy is a poor political system for fighting global warming. Communist China, she says, is the best model."
...and the facade drops!
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 16, 2014 9:43:07 GMT -5
Reagan was not milquetoast and he took the majority of the states-twice. People have to be reeducated as to what made this country great. Carter gave us Reagan, only good thing he did. Obama will give us something special as well. At least that is the hope. I agree (for the most part) about what made this country great, but you are missing my point. Reagan held his ground without vilifying the opposition. In fact he talked and negotiated with them. If you think he got everything he wanted, you're mistaken. Did he just run over Tip O'Neill. I don't think so. If the Republicans ever expect to get the WH back (and actually accomplish anything) they have to find a leader who can unite rather than divide. That's all I see these days. The first thing they have to do is get the deficit/debt down. And we need a leader who can work with both sides to come up with a creative solution that the majority can agree upon. I'll ask you again. How do you think the Republicans can beat Hillary (most likely) in 2016? any Presidential candidate isnt the problem. The Tea Party is the problem... that group obtaining any political clout/power what so ever has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to this countries political system. and why government involvement is absolutely necessary. One need look no further than today's paper www.timesunion.com/local/article/Stewart-s-sued-for-alleged-wage-violations-5148579.php |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 16, 2014 9:45:10 GMT -5
Went did any one join in. Please Tony can't we keep this board to basketball. Sent from my SPH-L710 using proboards this is the off-topic thread... anything and everything can be discussed here. if youre using a mobile app you might want to browse by "forum" instead of by "latest" if you dont wish to even see this thread... otherwise just skip it if youre not interested. |
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 16, 2014 10:36:35 GMT -5
I agree (for the most part) about what made this country great, but you are missing my point. Reagan held his ground without vilifying the opposition. In fact he talked and negotiated with them. If you think he got everything he wanted, you're mistaken. Did he just run over Tip O'Neill. I don't think so. If the Republicans ever expect to get the WH back (and actually accomplish anything) they have to find a leader who can unite rather than divide. That's all I see these days. The first thing they have to do is get the deficit/debt down. And we need a leader who can work with both sides to come up with a creative solution that the majority can agree upon. I'll ask you again. How do you think the Republicans can beat Hillary (most likely) in 2016? any Presidential candidate isnt the problem. The Tea Party is the problem... that group obtaining any political clout/power what so ever has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to this countries political system. and why government involvement is absolutely necessary. One need look no further than today's paper www.timesunion.com/local/article/Stewart-s-sued-for-alleged-wage-violations-5148579.phpI don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't have government involvement. The straw man strikes again. I read the tea party platform years ago, but I don't recall anything offensive. Can you educate us as to what about the tea party you find offensive? |
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glen
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Post by glen on Jan 16, 2014 11:58:02 GMT -5
SaintFan - by government involvement I'm guessing you mean having the IRS harass TEA party groups? All the TEA party is about is small government. How is that a problem?
I will agree that I don't see an "R" winning the white house in the future. Romney nailed it with his 47% comment. It'll by > 50% by the next election. Add into the mix that the press is 90% in the tank for the "Ds" and it is all over. Throw in the fact that the establishment Rs are in pretty tight with the Ds on spending, immigration, etc. and we're done.
SaintsFan - What level of debt is acceptable for you? We're adding $1T per year. At some point basic math dictates the debt service will overwhelm us. What then?
RE: Stewarts - illegal is illegal. If they were playing games then they should get nailed. That said, limited government is key IMO.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 16, 2014 12:16:33 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't have government involvement. The straw man strikes again. I read the tea party platform years ago, but I don't recall anything offensive. Can you educate us as to what about the tea party you find offensive? They are getting used as a political tool. What their beliefs are and how they have chosen to influence the political process are two different things. The Complete inability to compromise on anything |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 12:23:07 GMT -5
Glen or Rat, Share with us your concept of "small government"? Which current Government services are unnecessary? How much of a cost savings would those cuts produce? Seems like the sitting R's have real problems with those questions. When the sequester cuts were put in place everyone quickly realized that wasn't the way to do it. What is? If you cut taxes (revenue) you have to cut spending even further to reduce the debt. I find it amazing that the budget surplus, generated under a D President, got wiped and turned into a huge on-going deficit spending reality with two costly and, IMO, very unnecessary wars that are still soaking up tax payer dollars. (I'd ask what we got for the $'s, lives lost, and permanent injury to our troops but that would degenerate into a totally different discussion - we can save it for the next big lull between games). Efforts to reestablish the economy were resisted by the R's - they didn't want a D President to succeed - that is a documented strategy that was voiced and still practiced. Putting people back to work to get them off the assistance side of the ledger while putting them back to work making long overdue repairs to our long neglected infrastructure were defeated. Granted those repairs are costly but we must pay the price someday and yet our "leaders" on the R side said no. We may need an R president who runs on cutting spending until elected (like Bush) and then open the checkbook, the debt be damned.
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glen
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Post by glen on Jan 16, 2014 12:25:26 GMT -5
whoooaa SF - who isn't compromising. As I recall the T's got the "blame" for shutting down government in September. Or should I say 17% of government. They wanted a delay in OCare. Now who exactly didn't compromise?!?!?!? Senate Dems and the prez. And where are we on that O-Care thing?!? It was in the president's best interest to grab that delay. Instead he was so focused on playing politics that he let the government shut down so he could blame T's/R's. 2 weeks later he's forced to delay O-Care.
OK, so tell me again who isn't compromising. You folks on the left need to look up the definition of compromise. It isn't getting everything you want with nothing in return. Unfortunately this is the first president in history who feels that if he doesn't get it all his way he's entitled to circumvent congress. Sorry guy bat the system is set up to gridlock in the absence of compromise.
It should be noted too that by late Sept all the T's were asking for was a delay in the individual mandate. Again, here we are but it was done UNILATERALLY - and I'll add, illegally.
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glen
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Post by glen on Jan 16, 2014 12:31:06 GMT -5
MP - read the constitution - most of the "services" are unnecessary at the Fed level. Education department is a good start. Making sure the country is defended and interstate commerce flows are the key functions of the Feds. Beyond that I'm likely to say cut the program or move it to the states.
Note that constitutionalists see a huge diff between state and federal government. When we talk small government, we're talking Fed. The constitution spells out the Feds responsibility. All else is left to the states or the people. How freakin' hard is that for you guys to get!?!?! I know it is easier to confiscate my money for your projects via a central Fed than to do it via 50 state legislatures. I get it but that's not the way it was supposed to be. You think Washington would be the cesspool it is now if it the volume of money was cut by 2/3. I bet not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 12:42:11 GMT -5
whoooaa SF - who isn't compromising. As I recall the T's got the "blame" for shutting down government in September. Or should I say 17% of government. They wanted a delay in OCare. Now who exactly didn't compromise?!?!?!? Senate Dems and the prez. And where are we on that O-Care thing?!? It was in the president's best interest to grab that delay. Instead he was so focused on playing politics that he let the government shut down so he could blame T's/R's. 2 weeks later he's forced to delay O-Care. OK, so tell me again who isn't compromising. You folks on the left need to look up the definition of compromise. It isn't getting everything you want with nothing in return. Unfortunately this is the first president in history who feels that if he doesn't get it all his way he's entitled to circumvent congress. Sorry guy bat the system is set up to gridlock in the absence of compromise. It should be noted too that by late Sept all the T's were asking for was a delay in the individual mandate. Again, here we are but it was done UNILATERALLY - and I'll add, illegally. If you go back and look at the preshutdown back and forths you will see that the Democrats agreed 100% with the spending plan the Republicans had put out. The Democrats conceded all of their wants. And then the T's said - sorry but we want the ACA delayed - that had absolutely no impact on spending as the spending on ACA had already been approved and put in place. So yes, concessions were made - all by one side and then the demands increased. That was the same scenario that happened several times during the first two years of this administration. Each time the D's agreed with the R's the R's changed their minds. Go back and research it - I know you won't believe me. |
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glen
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Post by glen on Jan 16, 2014 12:55:24 GMT -5
They backed off the ACA delay though. They conceded on that. As for why the T's are hated by both sides...they're looking for real cuts. Dems and establishment Repubs don't want to make cuts. Period. The only guys looking out for all of us are the Ts. The Feds shouldn't be doing most of what they do.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 16, 2014 14:10:01 GMT -5
They backed off the ACA delay though. They conceded on that. As for why the T's are hated by both sides...they're looking for real cuts. Dems and establishment Repubs don't want to make cuts. Period. The only guys looking out for all of us are the Ts. The Feds shouldn't be doing most of what they do. Bingo. But were the wackos right? Reagan would be a tea party candidate if he was running these days. Liberalism has destroyed this country and these guys just don't get it. |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 16, 2014 14:12:45 GMT -5
What cuts in things such as defense, corporate welfare etc that are staples in a Republican budget did the tea partiers want?
seems to me that the cuts you reference were for the most part the typical rants of the Republican party.
now that some tea partiers are outted here it begins to explain why the conversation quickly disolved into the usual rhetoric
i do find it interesting that I am saying i dont have the answers and am open to discussion of the answers and im attacked as some leftist tyrant for it and meanwhile all those on the right have all the answers. THAT mirrors local, regional and national discussions.
Im glad the right know everything and have all the answers because what would we ever do without them?
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 16, 2014 14:20:33 GMT -5
As Milton Friedman once said spending should be controlled by a constitutional amendment. A percentage of GDP or some reasonable formula. If an agreement can not be made then cuts across the board until the budget it balanced.
With regard to corporate welfare, most true conservatives despise it. It picks winners and losers. Bailouts are the same. Government sponsored or subsidized business like nanotechnology and NYS gambling, is also not acceptable.
The free market should control; are you paying attention? Stop hanging on to your party like it is your favorite team.
Glen and I are free thinkers, you on the other hand are just following your party ideology. Come join us we would love to have you.
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