Liberals and conservatives

[CellarRat]

Jan 15, 2014 12:39:58 GMT -5 th24 said:

The greatest president of our time for sure. Landslide elections got him into office twice. He fixed the economy that lasted through Clinton. But the reality is that we are officially no longer the country we were. The people have chosen a european socialist progressive path which they feel is best for the country. I probably wont be here to say I told you so, but I really wouldnt get much joy in that anyway.

Atlas Shrugged!

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2014 16:13:12 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

Jan 15, 2014 12:24:44 GMT -5 @misspractice said:

Last time I looked the Pacific Rim countries were on the same globe we are! Did you bother to notice the storms they have had this year. Yes, we were fortunate but only by chance. Have you bothered to look at the last two major winter hurricanes in this country - they are called hurricanes and they were massive. Spare me the convenient denial when facing facts is inconvenient. I had hopes for you - but your last paragraph characterizes you best. Sad!

Not looking for Utopia but it would be nice to have a community where the homeless are not found dead in the streets after a cold snap.

I do not think anyone wants to find the homeless in the street dead after a cold snap. So please dont try to pretend you are kinder than the rest of us. I would argue that you and people your thinking have actually created a more dependent society - poorer that is. I do not recall reading anything about homeless people freezing in the streets. No Section 8 housing? No homeless shelters? No family and friends to help out? Churches? Temples? Mosques?

Most of the people that freeze in the streets are the mentally ill that elect not to recieve services available to them. With regard to global warming, which I believe you guys are calling climate change, since the temperature seems to be going the other direction, or a least cooling a bit over that past 15 years. I admit, this is one topic that I have not read a great deal about, but I know their appears to be a loose consensus that climate change exists. I also think that these scientists dont think we can really do much to change it in an effective way. On this subject I will defer to you and your liberal experts. I know the solution right - TAXES!

I take great offense at your cheap unwarranted shot saying that we are trying to pretend that we are kinder than you. That is pure unadulterated bull shit and another example of you resorting to personal attacks when someone points out a fact that you can't dispute. It is clear that your ignorance is real - the homeless death I was referring to took place last month in Saratoga. The woman was not mentally ill (nice crack about Section 8 housing) but she was homeless and depressed. Watch much news? The City of Saratoga immediately created a Code Blue shelter to prevent this in the future. Guess what - no tax dollars were needed - the public stepped up and funded it! Saratoga is affluent so that was not a major surprise but it was nice to hear the mayour say the city would find the money and took the project on as her highest priorities. There were NO SERVICES available to the young woman that died. Other cities with many more homeless citizens aren't that lucky.

Global warming is the climate change, Sherlock. You are so uninformed, where do you get the balls to comment on issues you know nothing about? The answer is - you get it from that rocket scientist Rush or the Taliban prototype Glenn Beck. They both reject science and anything that will threaten taking money out of their pockets. Loose consensus on GW/CC - LMAO at that one. No one has suggested taxes will solve the problem - your side is resisting controls on what polluting industries do to the environment. CO2 emmissions cost money to reduce and come from fossil fuel based industries and our automobiles. Necessary change is poo pooed due to the cost and needed regulations are decried as more Government regulation. We'll just f..k up the planet and let a future generation or two worry about it. Amazing - I hope you don't do anything important in your job, if you even have one.

[CellarRat]

I don't really listen to rush limabaugh. At least probably since I think the early 90s. But I would not be embarrassed to say I did listen to him. Glen Beck believes in smaller limited government and civil liberties - not a bad thing at least I dont think so.

You do not like conservatives - I think we all understand that.

Back to the lady in Saratoga and your idea of a community. (I don't watch local news, mostly just national news and news from various newspapers via internet. I am really not into to many of the pundits, even the ones I agree with because you never get any information that you dont already know.) I thought you were implying that we do not do enough and you want a larger government to take care of the problem? So was the lady mentally ill or suicidal? You say she wasnt. Ok. What could we have done to save her life? It is not like she was stuck on the top of MT Marcy and couldnt find shelter? Please help me understand. Also explain the "crack" on Section 8 housing? What is so funny? Conservatives have always supported people that are less fortunate, through churches, charities and alike. Most conservatives, myself, included do think that the government should provide a safety net for people to transition back into being a productive member of society.


With regard to global warming I stated that I have not read much on this topic, but it appears that I have read a bit more than you. I believe that the characterization was changed from global warming to climate change when the data actually demonstrated a trend of cooling temps. Like I said, it is not a subject that I have read too much on.

With regard to facts, did you read the article that I provided a link for. Liberals really are not known for their love of facts just emotion. If you want to be a fact guy you should change to the fact and logic side - conservative.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2014 17:03:31 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

I don't really listen to rush limabaugh. At least probably since I think the early 90s. But I would not be embarrassed to say I did listen to him. Glen Beck believes in smaller limited government and civil liberties - not a bad thing at least I dont think so.

You do not like conservatives - I think we all understand that.

Back to the lady in Saratoga and your idea of a community. (I don't watch local news, mostly just national news and news from various newspapers via internet. I am really not into to many of the pundits, even the ones I agree with because you never get any information that you dont already know.) I thought you were implying that we do not do enough and you want a larger government to take care of the problem? So was the lady mentally ill or suicidal? You say she wasnt. Ok. What could we have done to save her life? It is not like she was stuck on the top of MT Marcy and couldnt find shelter? Please help me understand. Also explain the "crack" on Section 8 housing? What is so funny? Conservatives have always supported people that are less fortunate, through churches, charities and alike. Most conservatives, myself, included do think that the government should provide a safety net for people to transition back into being a productive member of society.


With regard to global warming I stated that I have not read much on this topic, but it appears that I have read a bit more than you. I believe that the characterization was changed from global warming to climate change when the data actually demonstrated a trend of cooling temps. Like I said, it is not a subject that I have read too much on.

Educate yourself - it's about Global Warming/Climate change -- ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/brief/causes/index_en.htm

A larger government was never implied by any of my statements or beliefs. Better use of tax revenues and where needed, additional tax revenues - not cuts to programs that affect the poor while giving tax shelters to mega companies. I don't dislike conservatives, I just don't agree with many of their views. I, like SF, consider myself more of a moderate with a leaning toward liberal programs. The radical conservatives have so moved the middle that any non ultra conservative is immediately a socialistic liberal.

I said the lady was depressed - I must admit I've never heard of a suicide caused by exposure to the elements in winter in a major city. Suicides are usually a quicker death path. There was no shelter available to her. That's a fact.

Section 8 is an old term used to refer to mentally ill people. I have never heard of Section 8 housing and I'm guessing you created the term to be cute - your prejudice shows in it.

As to your claim that you have read more on global warming than I have - my last 15 years of work was in the environmental remediation field and I have consulted on the environment following retirement and what man has and continues to do and how we go about fixing it. Incidentally, all of the major environmental liabilities were created legally in times of little or no government regulation. They all cost infinitely more to correct today than preventive measures would have cost at the time these businesses started up. You can see the impact of companies taking short cuts right now in the chemical spill in West Virginia - coal is God in that neck of the woods and regulations in place were not being adhered to - some were, some weren't and now 800,000 people have been without water for ANY use for almost a week and the problem continues. Doing the right thing is not part of most companies real business plans unless the right thing increases profits.

[CellarRat]

Here is the section 8 housing I was correctly referring to:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing)



You did not answer any of my questions?

You have some knowledge regarding the climate appears, at least enough to provide a link to a european site. But if you recall I wasnt agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. Just stating what I have read. Save your rabid reponses for someone else.

I also do not appreciate the constant liberal retort of you are prejudice. What is that garbage. What have I said to deserve that, other than say I am a fiscal conservative? Typical liberal talk, bashing conservative pundits and Fox News. Just call someone a racist or prejudice and the discussion stops. I am not either so I will not back down.Talk about liberal pundits like Rachel Maddow or Piers Morgan. Did you have a problem with Glen Beck when he was on CNN. What about Lou Dobbs when he was on CNN? When they appear on Fox they are evil but on CNN they are okay. I get it.

I get it conservatives want dirty air and water. Is the choice very large government or no government? That is the argument people of your mindset always make - please stop talking nonsense and setting up a straw man.

[CellarRat]

Some Dems finally waking up:

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/15/benghazi-senate-report-clinton/4490727/

Looks like Fox News had this story right from the beginning.

[bigsaintg]

This shit is great! Are we getting a puppy for the friary or not?

[indian82]

I find this an interesting discussion. My first and biggest reaction is that this thread seems to be a microcosm of what happens at the national level, and especially in D.C. as well as in the national media. That is, it degrades to gross generalizations, name-calling and insulting opposing opinions on both sides which results in no listening and simply defending the position each side thinks is ‘right’. To me, that is what is largely to blame for the standoff as each side tries to vilify the other.

[CellarRat]

Jan 15, 2014 20:17:12 GMT -5 indian82 said:

I find this an interesting discussion. My first and biggest reaction is that this thread seems to be a microcosm of what happens at the national level, and especially in D.C. as well as in the national media. That is, it degrades to gross generalizations, name-calling and insulting opposing opinions on both sides which results in no listening and simply defending the position each side thinks is ‘right’. To me, that is what is largely to blame for the standoff as each side tries to vilify the other.

Vilification is the liberal way. If you compromise with liberals/socialists you end up going down the slippery slope we have gone down since the 1960s. Sometimes you just got to hold your ground or just give up. Liberals are winning, no doubt about it. When the country goes down they will say we were not liberal or progressive enough. There is no reasoning with people like that.

This milquetoast attitude sounds diplomatic and makes one appear above it all but at the end of the day it means nothing. Sometimes someone is right and someone is wrong.

[Tony]

Fascinating thread Guys-- Well done!!

[indian82]

Jan 15, 2014 20:53:45 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

Jan 15, 2014 20:17:12 GMT -5 indian82 said:

I find this an interesting discussion. My first and biggest reaction is that this thread seems to be a microcosm of what happens at the national level, and especially in D.C. as well as in the national media. That is, it degrades to gross generalizations, name-calling and insulting opposing opinions on both sides which results in no listening and simply defending the position each side thinks is ‘right’. To me, that is what is largely to blame for the standoff as each side tries to vilify the other.

Vilification is the liberal way. If you compromise with liberals/socialists you end up going down the slippery slope we have gone down since the 1960s. Sometimes you just got to hold your ground or just give up. Liberals are winning, no doubt about it. When the country goes down they will say we were not liberal or progressive enough. There is no reasoning with people like that.

This milquetoast attitude sounds diplomatic and makes one appear above it all but at the end of the day it means nothing. Sometimes someone is right and someone is wrong.

Disagree strongly there and I lean conservative. Keep talking like that and Hillary will eat you for lunch. So how do you think the Republicans can turn the tide in 2016?

[CellarRat]

Jan 15, 2014 21:46:04 GMT -5 indian82 said:

Jan 15, 2014 20:53:45 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

Vilification is the liberal way. If you compromise with liberals/socialists you end up going down the slippery slope we have gone down since the 1960s. Sometimes you just got to hold your ground or just give up. Liberals are winning, no doubt about it. When the country goes down they will say we were not liberal or progressive enough. There is no reasoning with people like that.

This milquetoast attitude sounds diplomatic and makes one appear above it all but at the end of the day it means nothing. Sometimes someone is right and someone is wrong.

Disagree strongly there and I lean conservative. Keep talking like that and Hillary will eat you for lunch. So how do you think the Republicans can turn the tide in 2016?

Reagan was not milquetoast and he took the majority of the states-twice. People have to be reeducated as to what made this country great. Carter gave us Reagan, only good thing he did. Obama will give us something special as well. At least that is the hope.

[SaintsFan]

Jan 15, 2014 20:17:12 GMT -5 indian82 said:

I find this an interesting discussion. My first and biggest reaction is that this thread seems to be a microcosm of what happens at the national level, and especially in D.C. as well as in the national media. That is, it degrades to gross generalizations, name-calling and insulting opposing opinions on both sides which results in no listening and simply defending the position each side thinks is ‘right’. To me, that is what is largely to blame for the standoff as each side tries to vilify the other.

This is why I stepped out of the discussion

[psycholojets]

Went did any one join in. Please Tony can't we keep this board to basketball.

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[th24]

Jan 16, 2014 0:38:13 GMT -5 psycholojets said:

Went did any one join in. Please Tony can't we keep this board to basketball.

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Note the term " off topic "!