CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 12, 2014 7:49:03 GMT -5
Typical liberal hogwash. Conservatives want a government that is similar to a referee; libs want a government that is paternalistic. You mention welfare state to libs, they mention some corrupt wallstreeter. I am not defending criminals and most if not all conservatives would not. Some libs most socialists, want higher estate taxes and dont think you should be able to leave YOUR money to YOUR children - they want it for THIER children - it really is comical. Then the people that did not have any degree of real success determine how much money is enough - again comical. When I grew up as a kid my father always told us to admire people that were successful and told us to work hard if we wanted a better life. And if we wanted more - work harder. Ask employers who are hiring now, they can not find good help despite the high unemployment rates (don't let those current numbers fool you). The reality is most of us, including myself, would rather stay home and watch basketball then go to work every day. Like a famous economist said it is okay to have a safety net, it is another to have a hammock. If libs are so smart why dont they start businesses and give away thier money - no answer needed of course. We all know those are the folks that didn't build anything and therefore feel very comfortable giving away other peoples' money. First. .. I think we do spend too much on social programs but I also believe the system has really striped away a lot of the ability to create the American dream. Second. .. I'm neither liberal nor conservative and proud of being neither. Both sides have no problems taking other people's money. Some liberals feel they deserve a handout. Some conservatives convince themselves that they worked so much harder than someone else for what they have. Especially those inheriting wealth. Our society is pretty frigging warped in who should make what money. Who should decide who is successful and has wealth? You? The government? Or the individual? You don't want people inheriting wealth? Who should get the money? The government? You? You can't leave your wealth to your legacy? You are a liberal, so be proud of that. I'm am not a rich person and I am not a liberal. I don't think someone else's money is mine because it is not. Working harder is not the test. In your world the ditch digger would get paid more than the neurosurgeon. The individual determines how much he makes - not the government. At least that is the goal in a free capitalistic society. Libs want to spread the wealth- like our president says. |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 12, 2014 8:21:28 GMT -5
First. .. I think we do spend too much on social programs but I also believe the system has really striped away a lot of the ability to create the American dream. Second. .. I'm neither liberal nor conservative and proud of being neither. Both sides have no problems taking other people's money. Some liberals feel they deserve a handout. Some conservatives convince themselves that they worked so much harder than someone else for what they have. Especially those inheriting wealth. Our society is pretty frigging warped in who should make what money. You don't want people inheriting wealth? Who should get the money? The government? You? You can't leave your wealth to your legacy? You are a liberal, so be proud of that. I'm am not a rich person and I am not a liberal. I don't think someone else's money is mine because it is not. Working harder is not the test. In your world the ditch digger would get paid more than the neurosurgeon. The individual determines how much he makes - not the government. At least that is the goal in a free capitalistic society. Libs want to spread the wealth- like our president says. Again with some wildly flailing example. I do think teachers doctors police fire should make more than a professional athlete or investment banker or lawyers. I am none of those but make more than many of them.(teachers doctors police fire) In your world a guy sacking quarterbacks dwarfs the earnings of a neuro surgeon and people complain about a teacher making 50-60k. Your world ... Our world... is effing warped. To give you an idea where my thought process is coming from... What really bothers me as a human is that we will spend so much time fighting over resources etc that we will fail to prepare for the time we need to get off this planet and human kind will be nothing more than a blip in the history of the universe. Then again... why does it matter right? I mean it will be long after we are gone right? Think about that inheritance you're passing along. And remember... A lot of getting wealthy is LUCK. billions of people in this world bust their asses every day. Few get that break. Take the creator of Facebook as an example. You think he worked so much harder than the thousands of coders and software developers even in this area? a lot of luck involved. I wouldn't doubt that 20-30 years from now he'll be pounding his chest talking about how the government wants to tax his assets he plans on passing to his children etc. Or how about corporate CEOs at many MANY corporations like global foundries who suckle that government teet to the tune of billions all the while badmouthing welfare food stamps and such? It's not nearly as simple as you wish to make it |
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 12, 2014 8:38:45 GMT -5
Teachers with summers off making more than investment bankers working in the private sector? Funny. So the investment banker that work 50 to 60 hours a week all year long should make less than a school teacher with summer off, spring break, etc... This is hilarious! I was just advising someone not too long ago to become a teacher because of the great benefits and easy lifestyle. I do not think teachers are the folks we should all feel sorry for.They work in the public sector, if you want more get in the private sector and take a chance; no security and maybe you make more and a good chance you make less. Frankly, your comments are insane. So you want to determine who makes what. Teachers work in the public sector and from what I have seen are fairly compensated with salary, pension, health benefits, and job security. They are not the working poor. You are a socialist that is clear. You dont like competition unless it is on a basketball court. Frankly, I think Michael Jordan, or Tiger Woods deserves every penny they made - and luck had nothing to do with it. Your posts are scary - but good news for you, you finally know what you are. You are not a competitor you are a liberal socialist.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 12, 2014 8:51:47 GMT -5
Glad we finally exposed this post.
Your disdain for the public sector is clear. Anything you say after that is driven by nothing but greed etc. If you think public sector folks are so safe why don't you speak to the tens of thousands in this state alone that lost their jobs thanks to your investment professionals. Public Sector took it on the chin far harder than the private sector in this economic downturn. The fact that you're blind to that makes most everything else you've said laughable.
Keep calling me a liberal socialist. Simple reality is I'm not cornered into one dimensional thinking. You are. .. greed. Spin it. Twist it. In the end. .. greed
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 12, 2014 9:02:37 GMT -5
It is funny how people that want other peoples' money to spread it around are altruistic and the people that want to keep more of thier money are greedy. As soon as you ask them to give some of thier money they go crazy. I know many people in the public sector and some in my family. Most took the jobs because of lifestyle reasons and the benefits and most are making more than they did in the private sector. I can name 10 people if not more that lost jobs in the private sector to every one state worker. Welcome to reality.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2014 10:05:55 GMT -5
It is funny how people that want other peoples' money to spread it around are altruistic and the people that want to keep more of thier money are greedy. As soon as you ask them to give some of thier money they go crazy. I know many people in the public sector and some in my family. Most took the jobs because of lifestyle reasons and the benefits and most are making more than they did in the private sector. I can name 10 people if not more that lost jobs in the private sector to every one state worker. Welcome to reality. In several of your "responses" you have gotten personal with words like "clueless", "insane", "socialist" so I guess it's ok if I use some relative to you. Callous, arrogant, selfish, closed minded, immature, inexperienced, greedy and childishly ignorant come to mind immediately. Just watched ABC's This Week and a conservative, Republican, young veteran in the House correctly stated that the biggest problem conservatives have is that they come off like you do. Get a grip on reality. Ask yourself if fairness is in play when a CEO gets a double digit % raise and an insane bonus while the factory worker that busts his ass making the product that the CEO is living off, gets his benefits cut and his raise, if any, is in the 1 - 2% area. Is that fair in anyone's eyes? And don't give me the risk/reward shit - that CEO could get canned tomorrow and live at his current standard of living for the rest of his life with no risk of losing his fortune. I'm not saying he shouldn't be rewarded, I'm saying rewards, commensurate with the success of the company, should be passed to all fairly (I didn't say equally, I said fairly). Does that happen - no they typically look for other ways to cut costs and make THEMSELVES richer. Your focus on estate taxes is interesting. You must be looking forward to not getting a nice junk of free money from one of your relatives - just a guess but probably not far off the mark. Try worrying about the blue collar (and some white collar) workers that are not keeping up with inflation and watching their property taxes increase threatening their ability to keep the "estate" they currently live in. |
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Jan 12, 2014 10:07:38 GMT -5
Typical liberal hogwash. Conservatives want a government that is similar to a referee; libs want a government that is paternalistic. You mention welfare state to libs, they mention some corrupt wallstreeter. I am not defending criminals and most if not all conservatives would not. Some libs most socialists, want higher estate taxes and dont think you should be able to leave YOUR money to YOUR children - they want it for THIER children - it really is comical. Then the people that did not have any degree of real success determine how much money is enough - again comical. When I grew up as a kid my father always told us to admire people that were successful and told us to work hard if we wanted a better life. And if we wanted more - work harder. Ask employers who are hiring now, they can not find good help despite the high unemployment rates (don't let those current numbers fool you). The reality is most of us, including myself, would rather stay home and watch basketball then go to work every day. Like a famous economist said it is okay to have a safety net, it is another to have a hammock. If libs are so smart why dont they start businesses and give away thier money - no answer needed of course. We all know those are the folks that didn't build anything and therefore feel very comfortable giving away other peoples' money. First. .. I think we do spend too much on social programs but I also believe the system has really striped away a lot of the ability to create the American dream. Second. .. I'm neither liberal nor conservative and proud of being neither. Both sides have no problems taking other people's money. Some liberals feel they deserve a handout. Some conservatives convince themselves that they worked so much harder than someone else for what they have. Especially those inheriting wealth. Our society is pretty frigging warped in who should make what money. Not saying that you are lock step with them but over the years whenever something along the lines of this discussion have come up you have weighed in heavily with typical liberal talking points. The truth is that both of the major parties have equally major flaws. That the Tea Party & Libertarians win elections here and there is proof. Unfortunately, I can't even imagine for a second what the latest mayoral election in NYC is saying about the voters in The City. Sadly, you will see more business and population flight from NY.... |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 12, 2014 10:11:57 GMT -5
It is funny how people that want other peoples' money to spread it around are altruistic and the people that want to keep more of thier money are greedy. As soon as you ask them to give some of thier money they go crazy. I know many people in the public sector and some in my family. Most took the jobs because of lifestyle reasons and the benefits and most are making more than they did in the private sector. I can name 10 people if not more that lost jobs in the private sector to every one state worker. Welcome to reality. Lol. You are right you work so much better/harder than any of those dead beat public workers. My mistake for getting into a political/idealistic discussion with ignorance. I can admit some people in both sectors work harder and some people in both sectors not as hard as I do. I'm also not naive enough to make claims that everone in a sector is better or worse than the other. Nor am I ignorant enough to claim it's all black and white with reward for hard work. |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 12, 2014 10:18:38 GMT -5
First. .. I think we do spend too much on social programs but I also believe the system has really striped away a lot of the ability to create the American dream. Second. .. I'm neither liberal nor conservative and proud of being neither. Both sides have no problems taking other people's money. Some liberals feel they deserve a handout. Some conservatives convince themselves that they worked so much harder than someone else for what they have. Especially those inheriting wealth. Our society is pretty frigging warped in who should make what money. Not saying that you are lock step with them but over the years whenever something along the lines of this discussion have come up you have weighed in heavily with typical liberal talking points. The truth is that both of the major parties have equally major flaws. That the Tea Party & Libertarians win elections here and there is proof. Unfortunately, I can't even imagine for a second what the latest mayoral election in NYC is saying about the voters in The City. Sadly, you will see more business and population flight from NY.... The population of the state is increasing. Not sure how the population is leaving unless you mean retirees headed for the warmth |
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Jan 12, 2014 10:20:58 GMT -5
Saintsfan - a few thoughts based on what you've posted:
Our men and women in uniform military, police, fire rescue ALL deserve to make more. Very few of us who aren't in those professions have families who always worry when the phone rings.
Having worked in both the public sector and run a business I can tell you that for me personally there is NO doubt in my mind that there are seriously under paid civil servants AND that an entrepreneur who is 'lucky' enough to make it big deserves his or her riches. Great success does not come without risk and sacrifice. Sure there are exceptions on both sides but to box EVERYONE into a system of control (government) because we don't like a few pay discrepancies is akin to not letting kids run at school anymore because occasionally one falls and gets hurt - in short it is asinine in my opinion.
Finally I'll close with a quote from a brilliant man:
“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”
― Thomas Sowell, Barbarians inside the Gates and Other Controversial Essays
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Post by nolesaint on Jan 12, 2014 10:25:18 GMT -5
Not saying that you are lock step with them but over the years whenever something along the lines of this discussion have come up you have weighed in heavily with typical liberal talking points. The truth is that both of the major parties have equally major flaws. That the Tea Party & Libertarians win elections here and there is proof. Unfortunately, I can't even imagine for a second what the latest mayoral election in NYC is saying about the voters in The City. Sadly, you will see more business and population flight from NY.... The population of the state is increasing. Not sure how the population is leaving unless you mean retirees headed for the warmth As for population, no matter if it has rebound a bit in the last few years, you just watch, everyone in NYS will see the ripple effect of Comrade Mayor being elected in The City. It will probably start to really show in about 18-24monts - save this post mark my words. |
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 12, 2014 11:09:17 GMT -5
Saintsfan - a few thoughts based on what you've posted: Our men and women in uniform military, police, fire rescue ALL deserve to make more. Very few of us who aren't in those professions have families who always worry when the phone rings. Having worked in both the public sector and run a business I can tell you that for me personally there is NO doubt in my mind that there are seriously under paid civil servants AND that an entrepreneur who is 'lucky' enough to make it big deserves his or her riches. Great success does not come without risk and sacrifice. Sure there are exceptions on both sides but to box EVERYONE into a system of control (government) because we don't like a few pay discrepancies is akin to not letting kids run at school anymore because occasionally one falls and gets hurt - in short it is asinine in my opinion. Finally I'll close with a quote from a brilliant man: “I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.” ― Thomas Sowell, Barbarians inside the Gates and Other Controversial Essays Thomas Sowell is a genius, much like his mentor Milton Friedman. Economics isn't something that these guys want to understand. They think you can tax people as much as you want and they assume that the same people are still going to work as hard - it really is hilarious. |
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 12, 2014 11:18:54 GMT -5
It is funny how people that want other peoples' money to spread it around are altruistic and the people that want to keep more of thier money are greedy. As soon as you ask them to give some of thier money they go crazy. I know many people in the public sector and some in my family. Most took the jobs because of lifestyle reasons and the benefits and most are making more than they did in the private sector. I can name 10 people if not more that lost jobs in the private sector to every one state worker. Welcome to reality. Lol. You are right you work so much better/harder than any of those dead beat public workers. My mistake for getting into a political/idealistic discussion with ignorance. I can admit some people in both sectors work harder and some people in both sectors not as hard as I do. I'm also not naive enough to make claims that everone in a sector is better or worse than the other. Nor am I ignorant enough to claim it's all black and white with reward for hard work. Try to follow me. The market determines how much I make. A society where YOU determine how much people make is not one I want to live in. A society where the free market determines it is where I want to be. It does not necessarily correlate on how hard someone works. That is why people educate themselves, pick thier vocation, profession or business. The fact that you think Michael Jordan should get paid less than a school teacher - or whatever public sector people you compare to private sector people is scary. You really are not a free market guy. You want the people to decide what a person's destiny should be, rather than have the individual determine it. Open your mind a little. And I know I am not diplomatic, but I am also not the one stealing from my nieghbor! |
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 12, 2014 11:32:35 GMT -5
It is funny how people that want other peoples' money to spread it around are altruistic and the people that want to keep more of thier money are greedy. As soon as you ask them to give some of thier money they go crazy. I know many people in the public sector and some in my family. Most took the jobs because of lifestyle reasons and the benefits and most are making more than they did in the private sector. I can name 10 people if not more that lost jobs in the private sector to every one state worker. Welcome to reality. In several of your "responses" you have gotten personal with words like "clueless", "insane", "socialist" so I guess it's ok if I use some relative to you. Callous, arrogant, selfish, closed minded, immature, inexperienced, greedy and childishly ignorant come to mind immediately. Just watched ABC's This Week and a conservative, Republican, young veteran in the House correctly stated that the biggest problem conservatives have is that they come off like you do. Get a grip on reality. Ask yourself if fairness is in play when a CEO gets a double digit % raise and an insane bonus while the factory worker that busts his ass making the product that the CEO is living off, gets his benefits cut and his raise, if any, is in the 1 - 2% area. Is that fair in anyone's eyes? And don't give me the risk/reward shit - that CEO could get canned tomorrow and live at his current standard of living for the rest of his life with no risk of losing his fortune. I'm not saying he shouldn't be rewarded, I'm saying rewards, commensurate with the success of the company, should be passed to all fairly (I didn't say equally, I said fairly). Does that happen - no they typically look for other ways to cut costs and make THEMSELVES richer. Your focus on estate taxes is interesting. You must be looking forward to not getting a nice junk of free money from one of your relatives - just a guess but probably not far off the mark. Try worrying about the blue collar (and some white collar) workers that are not keeping up with inflation and watching their property taxes increase threatening their ability to keep the "estate" they currently live in. Again who determines how much I make - You? The government? or the free market? I want to leave my money to my family, not you. What is wrong with that? I dont understand your issue with these ceo's. If you are so smart start your own company make alot of money and pay people what you think is fair. As far as me getting money from my relatives I dont understand your statement. "Your focus on estate taxes is interesting. You must be looking forward to not getting a nice junk of free money from one of your relatives - just a guess but probably not far off the mark." So you think I am getting money from my relatives or I am not? I think people should be able to give thier money to whoever they choose to. Why should you get it? I dont have any rich uncles that have me in thier will, but I would like to give whatever wealth I accumulate to my children, not you? Is that ok? Are you that clueless - exactly why do you think you are ENTITLED to others wealth. I grew up in a very very modest household where we were told to work hard and save - not complain and make excuses for OUR failures. I know not everyone was raised that way, and that is a shame. But don't you worry I will raise my children that way so that they can take care of yours. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2014 12:12:57 GMT -5
In several of your "responses" you have gotten personal with words like "clueless", "insane", "socialist" so I guess it's ok if I use some relative to you. Callous, arrogant, selfish, closed minded, immature, inexperienced, greedy and childishly ignorant come to mind immediately. Just watched ABC's This Week and a conservative, Republican, young veteran in the House correctly stated that the biggest problem conservatives have is that they come off like you do. Get a grip on reality. Ask yourself if fairness is in play when a CEO gets a double digit % raise and an insane bonus while the factory worker that busts his ass making the product that the CEO is living off, gets his benefits cut and his raise, if any, is in the 1 - 2% area. Is that fair in anyone's eyes? And don't give me the risk/reward shit - that CEO could get canned tomorrow and live at his current standard of living for the rest of his life with no risk of losing his fortune. I'm not saying he shouldn't be rewarded, I'm saying rewards, commensurate with the success of the company, should be passed to all fairly (I didn't say equally, I said fairly). Does that happen - no they typically look for other ways to cut costs and make THEMSELVES richer. Your focus on estate taxes is interesting. You must be looking forward to not getting a nice junk of free money from one of your relatives - just a guess but probably not far off the mark. Try worrying about the blue collar (and some white collar) workers that are not keeping up with inflation and watching their property taxes increase threatening their ability to keep the "estate" they currently live in. Again who determines how much I make - You? The government? or the free market? I want to leave my money to my family, not you. What is wrong with that? I dont understand your issue with these ceo's. If you are so smart start your own company make alot of money and pay people what you think is fair. As far as me getting money from my relatives I dont understand your statement. "Your focus on estate taxes is interesting. You must be looking forward to not getting a nice junk of free money from one of your relatives - just a guess but probably not far off the mark." So you think I am getting money from my relatives or I am not? I think people should be able to give thier money to whoever they choose to. Why should you get it? I dont have any rich uncles that have me in thier will, but I would like to give whatever wealth I accumulate to my children, not you? Is that ok? Are you that clueless - exactly why do you think you are ENTITLED to others wealth. I grew up in a very very modest household where we were told to work hard and save - not complain and make excuses for OUR failures. I know not everyone was raised that way, and that is a shame. But don't you worry I will raise my children that way so that they can take care of yours. LMAO! You really think everyone is out to take your money and then give it to others? Sad commentary on your fellow man. I have never taken on cent and don't plan on ever taking one cent from any sort of free money that you keep referring to. You were the one that brought up the estate tax issue. Where did I ever say anything that would imply that I want the wealth of others? I've worked hard to generate my own thanks! Taxes are used for services used by all and not just given willy nilly to whomever wants some, unless of course you have some experience that you'd like to share with the rest of us. I don't want your tax money (if you even pay any) but I'd love some of mine back. You throw out the usual conservative BS about just going off and starting a company! Do you really believe that is easy or even possible for the vast majority of people that live pay check to pay check? You are totally, to use a word you first threw out, CLUELESS. Like SF said, it's a mistake trying to debate with ignorance and you have demonstrated that you have a wealth of that. OBTW, if you want to give your money to your kids, establish a trust - lots of wealthy folks pay good money to their tax advisors and lawyers to do just that. Call yours and have at it. |
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