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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 5:47:29 GMT -5
Everyone should reserve their judgements re Bisping, Oliver and Audu - they are much better players than they were allowed to show last year. PW did a great job completely undermining their individual confidences and taking them out of their own comfort zones forcing them to play in his "one option offense". They may not end up with double digit averages but they will still contribute way more than their low single digit productions last season. This team is young but deep, quick and very talented at multiple positions. The Montreal trip gave us a much needed head start and confidence boost - both in their own individual abilities but also in the coaching staff's systems. The depth will facilitate much more intense and higher level game-like competition - our second team could contend for MAAC middle of the pack, IMHO. Saw White on the floor yesterday and he is the total package - size, athleticism, pure shot, quickness and solid footwork. My starting five right now would be Wright, White, Poole, Bisping and Silas. First off the bench - JO for Silas, Oliver for White, Long for Bisping, Hymes for Wright/White, Audu for White/Oliver.
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Post by MTS on Sept 4, 2013 7:11:48 GMT -5
OK—so Hymes and Poole are equivalent to Jordan and Mensah – so you expect one of them to be 1st team all MAAC and the other to be 2nd or 3 rd team—and out of Silas, Bisping, Audu, and Oliver- you expect two of them to average double figures?( similar to Fisher and Ryan ) hey if they do you are probably right . Look Siena has some talent, but we are extremely inexperienced – we have two players that have played significant minutes at the D1 level. Our Potential starting Center hasn’t done much at D1 level, our potential starting 4—couldn’t play much on a bad team, our starting 2 is 5’7” and was one of the national leaders in turnovers. Our starting PG is a freshman, first few players off the bench are likely to be freshmen. Add it all up and Siena won’t be picked high in the MAAC or nationally - it doesn’t mean Siena can’t over achieve- but to expect it, is kind of tough. Saints face a brutal non con schedule and just about every team in MAAC has loads more experience. But hey to each his own, I expect a fun team to watch, that improves as year goes on, and puts us in position for next few years, and even that is in question unless a few scholarships opens up- the PW handcuffed Jimmy tying up so many scholarships – might not be what you guys want to hear but it’s the way it is Scoop and Kojo are much better than Poole and Hymes - no debate there. I'm not saying Bisping-Oliver-Audu are any kind of stars but I wouldn't totally give up on them yet either. All three were freshmen and played under a terrible coach in a chaotic system. Remember how bad Scoop was his junior season? And scholarships have a way of opening up...there will be another addition or two for next year if I had to guess. We will take some bumps this season..I just don't expect to struggle to win 10 games. We should at least get to 12 wins at a minimum. Winning at home will be the key because young teams do struggle on the road no question about that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 7:29:00 GMT -5
To further tony's point... The MAAC was WAY down that year. There were something like 8 or 9 teams with new coaches rebuilding in that year or the year before. Talent was down in the league the last Lanier year and Frans first year and that made Siena's performance under Lanier his last season even more frustrating. The schedule was pretty soft. They had some experience and talent at guard and of course a steal in Kenny. Ryan was cerebral enough to survive at Center. A lot of things were breaking in Siena's favor to turn the record around fast Poole is probably not as good as a few players on that team and Hymes isnt even as good as Tay... who was down the list talent wise on that team. No one on this Siena team is as good as Hasbrouck. Silas vs Ryan... please. Fran was left more that fit his system than Patsos is left now Lanier knew talent. Mitch knew nothing. I'm not quite ready to say nobody on this team is as good as a freshman Kenny Hasbrouck. I think Jason Thompson, Jared Jordan , and others would disagree the talent was down in the league then, too.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Sept 4, 2013 7:36:38 GMT -5
To further tony's point... The MAAC was WAY down that year. There were something like 8 or 9 teams with new coaches rebuilding in that year or the year before. Talent was down in the league the last Lanier year and Frans first year and that made Siena's performance under Lanier his last season even more frustrating. The schedule was pretty soft. They had some experience and talent at guard and of course a steal in Kenny. Ryan was cerebral enough to survive at Center. A lot of things were breaking in Siena's favor to turn the record around fast Poole is probably not as good as a few players on that team and Hymes isnt even as good as Tay... who was down the list talent wise on that team. No one on this Siena team is as good as Hasbrouck. Silas vs Ryan... please. Fran was left more that fit his system than Patsos is left now Lanier knew talent. Mitch knew nothing. Agree with everything you said with the exception of what is in red and I am just hopeful that you are wrong on those. Only time will tell...
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Sept 4, 2013 7:56:05 GMT -5
I could care less for this inspid quibbling of Fran's 1st year vs. this year's team, but FWIW in 2005-06, Fran's 1st year, the MAAC's conference RPI was 12th, which is the highest its been in the last decade. Conference RPI - CBSRegardless of conference strength, that year's OOC schedule was incredibly weak.
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Post by SaintsFan on Sept 4, 2013 8:14:57 GMT -5
To further tony's point... The MAAC was WAY down that year. There were something like 8 or 9 teams with new coaches rebuilding in that year or the year before. Talent was down in the league the last Lanier year and Frans first year and that made Siena's performance under Lanier his last season even more frustrating. The schedule was pretty soft. They had some experience and talent at guard and of course a steal in Kenny. Ryan was cerebral enough to survive at Center. A lot of things were breaking in Siena's favor to turn the record around fast Poole is probably not as good as a few players on that team and Hymes isnt even as good as Tay... who was down the list talent wise on that team. No one on this Siena team is as good as Hasbrouck. Silas vs Ryan... please. Fran was left more that fit his system than Patsos is left now Lanier knew talent. Mitch knew nothing. I'm not quite ready to say nobody on this team is as good as a freshman Kenny Hasbrouck. I think Jason Thompson, Jared Jordan , and others would disagree the talent was down in the league then, too. First Team: Steve Burtt (Iona), Andre Collins (Loyola), Jared Jordan (Marist), Keydren Clark (Saint Peter's), Antoine Jordan (Siena) Second Team: Terrance Todd (Fairfield), Ricky Soliver (Iona), Arturo Dubois (Manhattan), Jason Wingate (Manhattan), Jeff Xavier (Manhattan), Jason Thompson (Rider) Third Team: Kevin Downey (Canisius), Will Whittington (Marist), Clif Brown (Niagara), Todd Sowell (Saint Peter's), Kojo Mensah (Siena) Rookie Team: Herbie Allen (Fairfield), Devon Austin (Manhattan), Lamar Johnson (Rider), Raul Orta (Saint Peter's), Kenny Hasbrouck (Siena) Iona and Manhattan had pretty good teams. Neither played defense all that well. Loyola, St Peters had one single impressive scorer and not much else. Jason Thompson... that beast he is... lead his team to a 4-14 maac record. He was an unimpressive college player for most of his career. Able to get his but didnt really make anyone around him any better. Even Marist wasnt all that impressive. They had Jordan and the perfect compliment to him on the offensive side in Whittington. Whittington couldnt defend. Outside of Manhattan anyone was beatable for that Siena team. Some good individual scorers in the league but outside of Jordan no real good team players. Outside of those scorers most of the teams lacked any depth Manhattan was as deep as it gets in the MAAC Iona was Burt and Soliver - scorers but no D Marist was Jordan and to a lesser extent One dimensional Whittington St Peters was kiki ... nothing more Loyola was Collins Niagara was Fisher Miles and Brown but played no D Fairfield had Todd and nothing else Canisius sported an NEC team Rider was just awful add to this mess the fact that all but Niagara had replaced coaches within the two year period and you had some poor talent and some new talent learning entirely new systems.
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Post by SaintsFan on Sept 4, 2013 8:26:21 GMT -5
I could care less for this inspid quibbling of Fran's 1st year vs. this year's team, but FWIW in 2005-06, Fran's 1st year, the MAAC's conference RPI was 12th, which is the highest its been in the last decade. Conference RPI - CBSRegardless of conference strength, that year's OOC schedule was incredibly weak. yes the MAAC (im guessing coincidentally/accidentally) schedule weak up and down the league in the OOC. Regardless of strength of OOC schedule if you enter the league with most having good records against the OOC then the league RPI stays high. If you bite off more than you can chew and go ... say... .500 against a much stronger OOC... the league RPI takes a hit. it kind of sucks because it promotes playing softer OOC. The BCS leagues obviously have talent but they also play soft OOC schedules which gives all their teams winning records heading into conference play which inflates their RPI even more the MAAC that year scheduled soft ooc as there was so much turnover in the league in coaches etc
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 8:32:13 GMT -5
I could care less for this inspid quibbling of Fran's 1st year vs. this year's team, but FWIW in 2005-06, Fran's 1st year, the MAAC's conference RPI was 12th, which is the highest its been in the last decade. Conference RPI - CBSRegardless of conference strength, that year's OOC schedule was incredibly weak. yes the MAAC (im guessing coincidentally/accidentally) schedule weak up and down the league in the OOC. Regardless of strength of OOC schedule if you enter the league with most having good records against the OOC then the league RPI stays high. If you bite off more than you can chew and go ... say... .500 against a much stronger OOC... the league RPI takes a hit. it kind of sucks because it promotes playing softer OOC. The BCS leagues obviously have talent but they also play soft OOC schedules which gives all their teams winning records heading into conference play which inflates their RPI even more the MAAC that year scheduled soft ooc as there was so much turnover in the league in coaches etc The RPI takes strength of schedule into consideration. If you are beating teams in the 200's and 300's, you stay in that range. The league had one of it's highest RPI's ever, but that doesn't fit your agenda, so it's wrong?
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Post by SaintsFan on Sept 4, 2013 8:55:31 GMT -5
yes the MAAC (im guessing coincidentally/accidentally) schedule weak up and down the league in the OOC. Regardless of strength of OOC schedule if you enter the league with most having good records against the OOC then the league RPI stays high. If you bite off more than you can chew and go ... say... .500 against a much stronger OOC... the league RPI takes a hit. it kind of sucks because it promotes playing softer OOC. The BCS leagues obviously have talent but they also play soft OOC schedules which gives all their teams winning records heading into conference play which inflates their RPI even more the MAAC that year scheduled soft ooc as there was so much turnover in the league in coaches etc The RPI takes strength of schedule into consideration. If you are beating teams in the 200's and 300's, you stay in that range. The league had one of it's highest RPI's ever, but that doesn't fit your agenda, so it's wrong? i can explain it to you but I cant understand it for you
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Sept 4, 2013 9:01:31 GMT -5
OK—so Hymes and Poole are equivalent to Jordan and Mensah – so you expect one of them to be 1st team all MAAC and the other to be 2nd or 3 rd team—and out of Silas, Bisping, Audu, and Oliver- you expect two of them to average double figures?( similar to Fisher and Ryan ) hey if they do you are probably right . Look Siena has some talent, but we are extremely inexperienced – we have two players that have played significant minutes at the D1 level. Our Potential starting Center hasn’t done much at D1 level, our potential starting 4—couldn’t play much on a bad team, our starting 2 is 5’7” and was one of the national leaders in turnovers. Our starting PG is a freshman, first few players off the bench are likely to be freshmen. Add it all up and Siena won’t be picked high in the MAAC or nationally - it doesn’t mean Siena can’t over achieve- but to expect it, is kind of tough. Saints face a brutal non con schedule and just about every team in MAAC has loads more experience. But hey to each his own, I expect a fun team to watch, that improves as year goes on, and puts us in position for next few years, and even that is in question unless a few scholarships opens up- the PW handcuffed Jimmy tying up so many scholarships – might not be what you guys want to hear but it’s the way it is I agree with everything except this -- Didn't Jimmy just sign 5 freshman players? Wright, Long, White, Ogunyemi, Wolfe. That's 25 years of scholarships Mitch left open for him untied, and Patsos tied them all up in year one. Ok, so maybe he caught a break with the two thieving smokers leaving the program. But, he didn't even use Siena's so called recruiting advantages for four of them, considering that the three Ws and Long were first recruited to play at Loyola. To me that says that Patsos thinks that he has some good players ready to compete in year one. Otherwise, wouldn't he have gotten a few transfers first and recruited the Siena name for a full year? Patsos is the one that is tying up his future on the backs of 5 freshmen--- keep in mind that no Siena coach has ever survived two consecutive losing seasons. If year one is a given, there is already a lot of pressure on year two with little or no changes in the make up of the team....
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th24
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Post by th24 on Sept 4, 2013 9:09:58 GMT -5
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Sept 4, 2013 10:26:07 GMT -5
OK—so Hymes and Poole are equivalent to Jordan and Mensah – so you expect one of them to be 1st team all MAAC and the other to be 2nd or 3 rd team—and out of Silas, Bisping, Audu, and Oliver- you expect two of them to average double figures?( similar to Fisher and Ryan ) hey if they do you are probably right . Look Siena has some talent, but we are extremely inexperienced – we have two players that have played significant minutes at the D1 level. Our Potential starting Center hasn’t done much at D1 level, our potential starting 4—couldn’t play much on a bad team, our starting 2 is 5’7” and was one of the national leaders in turnovers. Our starting PG is a freshman, first few players off the bench are likely to be freshmen. Add it all up and Siena won’t be picked high in the MAAC or nationally - it doesn’t mean Siena can’t over achieve- but to expect it, is kind of tough. Saints face a brutal non con schedule and just about every team in MAAC has loads more experience. But hey to each his own, I expect a fun team to watch, that improves as year goes on, and puts us in position for next few years, and even that is in question unless a few scholarships opens up- the PW handcuffed Jimmy tying up so many scholarships – might not be what you guys want to hear but it’s the way it is Yes, I do expect both Hymes and Poole to be all-league - but not first team. Now that the handcuffs are off the offense, those two will put up some numbers. Fisher and Ryan played in a 7 man rotation, they put up solid numbers because they played nearly every minute. This team's players won't play as many minutes because they are on a much deeper team, and so they won't average as many points. Fran was stuck playing 7 guys in 2005 - the current coaches say they can go as much as 11 deep in this bench. You are also making the common mistake of assuming that what you saw of the players under Mitch is what you get now. I think everyone looked bad in his system and the team is actually more talented than that. Lastly, it's kind of hard to argue the PW handcuffed Jimmy tying up scholarships when Jimmy just brought in 5 of his own players. I'm not saying this team ought to finish as high as Fran's first team did or with as good a record as the league is much stronger now than then and the currrent OOC schedule is much stornger. But comparatively speaking, this team should be better (and certainly deeper) than the 2005-2006 team.
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Post by SaintsFan on Sept 4, 2013 10:58:08 GMT -5
OK—so Hymes and Poole are equivalent to Jordan and Mensah – so you expect one of them to be 1st team all MAAC and the other to be 2nd or 3 rd team—and out of Silas, Bisping, Audu, and Oliver- you expect two of them to average double figures?( similar to Fisher and Ryan ) hey if they do you are probably right . Look Siena has some talent, but we are extremely inexperienced – we have two players that have played significant minutes at the D1 level. Our Potential starting Center hasn’t done much at D1 level, our potential starting 4—couldn’t play much on a bad team, our starting 2 is 5’7” and was one of the national leaders in turnovers. Our starting PG is a freshman, first few players off the bench are likely to be freshmen. Add it all up and Siena won’t be picked high in the MAAC or nationally - it doesn’t mean Siena can’t over achieve- but to expect it, is kind of tough. Saints face a brutal non con schedule and just about every team in MAAC has loads more experience. But hey to each his own, I expect a fun team to watch, that improves as year goes on, and puts us in position for next few years, and even that is in question unless a few scholarships opens up- the PW handcuffed Jimmy tying up so many scholarships – might not be what you guys want to hear but it’s the way it is Yes, I do expect both Hymes and Poole to be all-league - but not first team. Now that the handcuffs are off the offense, those two will put up some numbers. Fisher and Ryan played in a 7 man rotation, they put up solid numbers because they played nearly every minute. This team's players won't play as many minutes because they are on a much deeper team, and so they won't average as many points. Fran was stuck playing 7 guys in 2005 - the current coaches say they can go as much as 11 deep in this bench. You are also making the common mistake of assuming that what you saw of the players under Mitch is what you get now. I think everyone looked bad in his system and the team is actually more talented than that. Lastly, it's kind of hard to argue the PW handcuffed Jimmy tying up scholarships when Jimmy just brought in 5 of his own players. I'm not saying this team ought to finish as high as Fran's first team did or with as good a record as the league is much stronger now than then and the currrent OOC schedule is much stornger. But comparatively speaking, this team should be better (and certainly deeper) than the 2005-2006 team. as others stated. Patsos did catch a break with the thieving puff daddies going. Tough to use sienas recruiting advantages at the end of the recruiting cycle. Heck ... those advantages and patsos coupled together may be what won the recruits to come to loudonville.
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Post by greengold4ever on Sept 4, 2013 13:39:33 GMT -5
it really doesn't matter what Rothstein thinks................what should be known is that had JP stayed at Loyola MD and those players stayed with him there as well rather than come to Siena, the GreyHounds are a top tier MAAC team/program............they were the last 2 yrs and it would have continued..............so even with the young talent & inexperience, JP has Siena moving forward and while we "should" temper expectations a bit, quite evident he had it rolling really good in Baltimore because that program was winning regularly..................bottom line, things are a changing in Loudonville, the product on the floor is going to be exciting to watch and overall talent/depth is really good right now, it will only get better and that speaks volume because this group would destroy any of PW's teams!!!!!!!!!
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