IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 8,974
Dislikes:
|
Post by IndianSaint on Aug 28, 2013 10:21:51 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 10:25:33 GMT -5
It was actually the best year of both of their careers. Lavon might be able to put up that kind of Jordan year eventually. Great all around numbers.
|
|
IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 8,974
Dislikes:
|
Post by IndianSaint on Aug 28, 2013 10:29:17 GMT -5
I obviously can't work the "quote" feature.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 10:34:48 GMT -5
One thing I don't think was mentioned about yesterday's game is the scoring potential of a lineup with both Long and Bisping together in the frontcourt. Sounds like that happened a lot yesterday with Silas struggling.
That lineup reminds me a bit of that 15-13 year with Jordan/Ryan.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 10:55:46 GMT -5
Where are Ubiles, Franklin, Burdine, Jordan, Ryan, etc, now? And where might they be if they spent 4 years working at their natural postitions? Nobody said they can't play the position in the MAAC, it was said it's not best for their development. How does that make no sense? Oh, because you didn't say it, right? Wait, are you trying to tell me that if they all played exclusively SF in college they'd all be in the NBA right now? I'm sorry but Ubiles had the best ball skills of the bunch and started 4 years at mostly SF and he couldn't make it. And he used to do 360 dunks in games. Burdine should be in the NBA right now if Mitch played him exclusively at SF. His broken foot, the lack of motivation, the drugs, the poor grades, the bad decisions, not being able to drive effectively and take care of the ball are all because Mitch played him a lot at PF last year, his best year. The fact that Franklin was a career 65% FT shooter, turned the ball over 126 more times than he had assists, and was 6-4.5 was all because he played the PF. That's why he's not in the NBA. Fran screwed him by vindictively putting him at PF so he would get POY and would get all that national publicity and exposure to scouts. What a jerk! For Jordan and Ryan, they were 6-24 playing in their "natural positions." They jumped to 15-13. And then Ryan stayed for the 20 win year. Lanier got fired for playing them at their "natural positions." Nice argument, except you are the only one who said anything about the NBA. But then, actually, Ubiles DID make it, which apparently you forgot. Burdine would be in a better place now if he played the 2/3. Franklin may have been a better free throw shooter and certainly would have a better assist/turnover ratio if he practiced/played more on the wing instead of down low. Burdine was called a 1-3 when Fran recruited him. Fran said Alex played a lot of point in high school. You don't think practicing and playing somewhere else stunted their growth?
|
|
|
Post by playerparentcoach on Aug 28, 2013 11:25:59 GMT -5
Does anyone disagree that a 6'6 guard is more desirable than a 6'6 PF?
Michael Carter Williams would not be a first round draft pick if he played PF...instead he is a 6'6 pg...he played with size instead of being the size...
Lastly recruiting is over and Lavon is happy...this is just a discussio ...and KK Lavon is playing exclusively 3/4 as promised but he is not starting and plays limited mins....its not fair to judge he stats as if he was a starter playing major minutes...If he played 30 mins he would give you better numbers and if he was given the opportunity to make plays he would have more asst. that is not under his control...he fouled out of 1 game and no one is shooting the 3 ball well but the smaller guys get to be guards anyway because they cant do anything else.....I know the min are divided up in these exhibition games and Wright is the only one playing 30+ so he is getting the stats to justify his time...that will go a long way in his development
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 11:43:42 GMT -5
Wait, are you trying to tell me that if they all played exclusively SF in college they'd all be in the NBA right now? I'm sorry but Ubiles had the best ball skills of the bunch and started 4 years at mostly SF and he couldn't make it. And he used to do 360 dunks in games. Burdine should be in the NBA right now if Mitch played him exclusively at SF. His broken foot, the lack of motivation, the drugs, the poor grades, the bad decisions, not being able to drive effectively and take care of the ball are all because Mitch played him a lot at PF last year, his best year. The fact that Franklin was a career 65% FT shooter, turned the ball over 126 more times than he had assists, and was 6-4.5 was all because he played the PF. That's why he's not in the NBA. Fran screwed him by vindictively putting him at PF so he would get POY and would get all that national publicity and exposure to scouts. What a jerk! For Jordan and Ryan, they were 6-24 playing in their "natural positions." They jumped to 15-13. And then Ryan stayed for the 20 win year. Lanier got fired for playing them at their "natural positions." Nice argument, except you are the only one who said anything about the NBA. But then, actually, Ubiles DID make it, which apparently you forgot. Burdine would be in a better place now if he played the 2/3. Franklin may have been a better free throw shooter and certainly would have a better assist/turnover ratio if he practiced/played more on the wing instead of down low. Burdine was called a 1-3 when Fran recruited him. Fran said Alex played a lot of point in high school. You don't think practicing and playing somewhere else stunted their growth? Oh really? What team does Ubiles play for? Listen, some people also said Anosike was a SF when he was recruited. Once you start playing the games, things change. Lavon can play the SF, sure. Is his profile & development better if he does? I just don't know. I think he can showcase himself more as a mismatch in the MAAC. Too skilled for PFs but strong and athletic enough to play there. At the SF, in order for him to be a true mismatch he has to prove that he can either shoot well enough or create efficiently enough. One or the other. I'll be happy to have him play there even more then. However, as a team we give up some of that uptempo ability he gives us. That versatility he gives us at the 4 makes the entire team better than putting another big there and slowing us down. If Fran, Fairfield, and Cluess have showed us anything, it's that you need versality at the 4 in this league if you want to run. When I first saw highlights of Lavon last summer, I thought now that's a guy who can get a team to the dance...but it wasn't really because he was playing SF. It was because he singlehandely turns any team he plays for into a running team by playing the 4 and wreaking havoc..
|
|
Sienafan
Team Captain
Posts: 2,498
Dislikes:
|
Post by Sienafan on Aug 28, 2013 12:13:59 GMT -5
I agree in Jimmy’s system it doesn’t matter where you play ( 3 or 4) Lavon is versatile and the kid can obviously play. He is going to get a lot of time at both the 3 and 4 this year. In the press he can show his quickness and on offense he is a match problem for most teams- I’m excited about Lavon’s potential and versatility , but we have to keep in mind he is a freshmen and learning every day First off once again I appreciate the healthy debate without personal attacks....also Lavon is happy so I am not complaining just stating the facts that are unfolding ....Lavon has the ability to do everything on the court efficiently on this level......I am not hung up on starting and neither is Lavon....the fact that he finished every game except the one he fouled out says he has a role and is showing his value....what has started to happen though is that his size and ability to defend Big and rebound has begun to overshadow everything else and he is being called a BigMan at 6'6...something I did not want and worked real hard in recruitment to prevent that....as I have said many times Lavon is best playing with size rather than being the size....defending PF evens the playing field as the PF is his size or taller.....Lavon is a versatile defender but coaches want to keep him near the basket because he has never played with true big men that are a better option than he is on the defensive end.......It does bother me when a player is called and allowed to play the guard position because they are 5-7 inches shorter than Lavon but not as skilled and cant play inside...Lavon's body type has been a blessing and a curse....That was the inspiration for making the videos....to show Lavon's skill set... Now I do still Believe that Patsos knows Lavon's game and was being sincere about what Lavon would have done at Loyola....with the graduating seniors and the style of play it looked like a perfect fit....he assured us nothing would change at Siena....I Believe he believed that but also knew that was an educated guess at best before Patsos worked with the team...sure enough Wright shows off at the pg and Patsos decides to focus on his development forcing Hymes to compete at the 2 for a starting spot....that pushed Poole down and Lavon out.....not a problem there at all as Lavon is a freshman that has no pressure which is great for him....and Lavon is not hung up on starting...I realize Patsos is still tweeking and that he will put Lavon in place to help the team win...Lavon will fill that role without questioning ....The big guys need to play big so Lavon can use his skills on both ends of the floor....playing the 3/4 was the deal.....I appreciate Patsos publicly stating Lavon's versatility ....coaches in the past have downplayed his skill set to excuse why they did not let him do it.. At the end of the day Lavon will play to win and give what is asked....and this team is better right now than alot of people realize....very early yet they are very competitive Many good points here. But it's hard to avoid being referred to as a "big man" when one is 6'6, 230. It's even more applicable off the court. He quite literally is a very big man. So you may have to get used to that term - it's not going away in his lifetime. I think KK has made the point that hits home most. If Lavon wants to be regarded as solely a 3, then he must show he can play like one at the Div. 1 level. That means displaying a perimeter game, which Lavon has yet to display with any regularity. How many threes has he attempted so far through the 3 games? He's getting most of his points within a few feet of the basket. That's not a wing's game, as a wing spends most of their time patrolling the perimeter. A wing player is usually positioned right around the 3-point arc, halfway between the top of the arc and the baseline. You seem to lament that Lavon won't be called a guard or allowed to play the position because of his size. But a 3 is a wing, and a wing is not a guard. Unlike the guards and post players, a wing is often boxed in by the sideline, baseline and defender and must be multifaceted enough to score at the basket and from beyond the 3-point arc. I'm not sure that's Lavon's comfort zone at this stage in his career. I like your line "playing with size rather than being the size". But that means playing the perimeter with said size as well. That's what we need to see more of from Lavon and when you do, then I'll think you'll be convinced he is being unitlized correctly. Right now, I'd say he is being wise for a freshman. Instead of forcing it from outside, he's taking what the defense gives him and opting for the high percentage shot. That doesn't mean he's being played exclusively as a power forward though - he's simply performing part of a wing's function. Consistent perimeter shooting is the other key wing function he must add to his skill set.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 12:21:49 GMT -5
These are summer games that don't really mean anything with a limited sample size for everyone. Lavon has only attempted 2 threes. The strength of his game is obviously 15ft and in while drawing fouls anyway. Sure he can hit a three. But in D1 it's all about creating mismatches.
He can do everything but he doesn't excel at everything. He needs to excel on the perimeter before he can be a true mismatch there. Right now, I think he excels where he's playing and he hasn't even played there to his capabilities yet.
|
|
Sienafan
Team Captain
Posts: 2,498
Dislikes:
|
Post by Sienafan on Aug 28, 2013 12:28:56 GMT -5
These are summer games that don't really mean anything with a limited sample size for everyone. Lavon has only attempted 2 threes. The strength of his game is obviously 15ft and in while drawing fouls anyway. Sure he can hit a three. But in D1 it's all about creating mismatches. He can do everything but he doesn't excel at everything. He needs to excel on the perimeter before he can be a true mismatch there. Right now, I think he excels where he's playing and he hasn't even played there to his capabilities yet. Agreed. I think we are saying the same thing. A pure 3 excels at the perimeter. If PPC wants to see Lavon as a pure 3, then an excellent perimeter game has to be there.
|
|
|
Post by greenblood on Aug 28, 2013 12:32:12 GMT -5
wait for it....here comes six more pages of what Lavon can do....
|
|
|
Post by playerparentcoach on Aug 28, 2013 12:40:30 GMT -5
Lavon is not playing on the wing much at all and if he is on the floor with 3 other guys shooting 3's he wont join in...that does not mean he cant...he is a better shooter ballhandler and passer than alot DI shooting guards....but they are called guards because of their size...Patsos is not like that and for that I am grateful...Patsos knows Lavon is a guard that can play forward because of his size...so its not a force to the perimeter...its a I need you to play here to make the team better...we were told Lavon would play 3/4 and that is what is going on....I Believe he put him at the 1 in practice just to see if he could handle it but it would be a last resort....Patsos is bringing Lavon along and deciding how to play him....I dont have a problem
as for the BigMan name....yes he is a big guy and always will be but his game is not a bigmans game ...he is a Basketball player that can do many things....my new phrase is Five Fingers of Versatility ...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 12:54:24 GMT -5
Lavon is not playing on the wing much at all and if he is on the floor with 3 other guys shooting 3's he wont join in...that does not mean he cant...he is a better shooter ballhandler and passer than alot DI shooting guards....but they are called guards because of their size...Patsos is not like that and for that I am grateful...Patsos knows Lavon is a guard that can play forward because of his size...so its not a force to the perimeter...its a I need you to play here to make the team better...we were told Lavon would play 3/4 and that is what is going on....I Believe he put him at the 1 in practice just to see if he could handle it but it would be a last resort....Patsos is bringing Lavon along and deciding how to play him....I dont have a problem as for the BigMan name....yes he is a big guy and always will be but his game is not a bigmans game ...he is a Basketball player that can do many things....my new phrase is Five Fingers of Versatility ... I hope that's not similar to the Five Finger Discount. Perhaps you need to call him something a little less klepto.
|
|
|
Post by primetime on Aug 28, 2013 13:09:20 GMT -5
2 weeks into the pre-season its Lavon all day? Seriously? Is this a preview for the entire Saints season? Is everyone cool with this direction?
|
|
|
Post by hoopfan1988 on Aug 28, 2013 13:42:39 GMT -5
She's only getting started!!
|
|