gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Feb 26, 2018 21:36:17 GMT -5
Everybody has their coping mechanisms. — I have to believe that the next time they will do their best, learning from past mistakes. It’s the only reason I stay on. They tried hiring a current assistant even that coach had failed as a head coach —- mistake. They compounded the mistake by hiring a current maac coach with very little success—- mistake. They then doubled down when they won the cbi and I’ll never understand the extension after a cbi first round loss.
The bottom line is you can’t buy out your current coach and replace that coach with a cheaper one to smooth out the buyout— it’s a losing proposition which is why I am dead set against this idea. If Marc brown was an up and coming but proven coach worth $400k and Siena could afford it I would be on board.
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Post by grascandunk on Feb 26, 2018 22:00:04 GMT -5
well I'm starting a petition haha, I say Marc Brown for HC
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Feb 26, 2018 22:23:47 GMT -5
It's not an insult if the guy is 48, coaching D3, and is making $100k or less....and your offering him a straight shot to D1, making $150k, and a shot to end up being the guy, the long term solution, and earning in excess of $400k.
Who really gives a hoot if it is an insult. It's business. And plain and simple. Its the reality of the situation Siena put itself in.
Certainly no recruit is going to care or even know whether the coach is making $150k or $400k and make a decision not to come to Sienabased on how much the coach does or or does not make.
What they and their parents will care about is whether they like the coach, respect the coach, like his coaching style, and most importantly from the parents, that they trust that the coach has their son's best interest at heart.
I would not think Patsos has any kind of great reputation on the recruiting front and it's certainly evident that he does not win too many recruits when he is in a battle for them with other schools.
So forget the whole insult to his pride thing. That's foolish.
If he turns it down so be it. No harm no foul to at least reach out and get a feel for where he is at.
If it's not a financial reality for the school, forget the whole hiring a new guy at market value of $400k while paying Patsos another $400k. It can't be done.
But just sitting back and waiting for Patsos to either bring the program down that much further or win just enough next year,to keep his job and bring it down just through mediocrity and continued irrelevance should not be an acceptable solution as well. And remember the talent level of his recruits will effect the program for 1-4 yeas after he is gone so you better not let him bring in another large recruiting class that is not all that talented when compared to other mid major powers which we should be striving to be.
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Post by texasjack on Mar 2, 2018 19:52:56 GMT -5
Maybe its time to go follow Georgetown's master plan and use nostalgia to revitalize a once great program that is now dead in the water. Who's for hiring Marc Brown as the next head coach? He's been doing a respectable job as a head coach at the D3 level and frankly I'm not seeing us doing any better. Marc Brown’s team lost in the first round of the NCAA D3 tournament to Union College tonight.
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Post by grascandunk on Mar 2, 2018 23:35:16 GMT -5
He's done a solid job turning that program around from a sub .500 club. 2 straight NCAA appearances.
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Mar 3, 2018 8:37:38 GMT -5
And remember that at the D3 level, success is that much more difficult based on the college that you coach at.
At the D3 level, the kids you are recruiting to come play for you are primarily basing their decision on where they want to play their college ball at is on what they and their parents first are looking for educationally, fiscally can afford, socially, geographically, and what the campus/towm amenities offer in terms of campus asthetics, college town reputation, etc..., and as a secondary thing or an equal thing at best, the athletics/history of the program.
All of these players are not thinking they will ever be making money playing hoop after college.
Whether realistic or not, even at the mid major level, many of these players are thinking when they choose a college, that they will have a chance to be playing professionally after graduation.
At the D1 level the "majority" of the student athletes primarily base their decisions on athletics/the coach/the athletic facilities/the reputation of the program "first"......and then all the educational/social/campus stuff as part of all of the secondary reasons to choose a school.
Marc Brown has done pretty darn well at a D3 school that does not have nearly the same reputation as many of its counterparts in the northeast let alone nationally.
Despite this he has done well enough because he knows how to coach and develop a chemistry between the players he can get to come to play there.
At Siena, he would have much more at his disposal than many of his mid major counterparts as a whole, let alone vs. other MAAC schools he is competing against.
Meaning a majority of the athletes I think he would bring in here would be athletes who he got to come to Siena in competitive recruiting situations who have other mid major or higher offers.
I think he would kill it on the recruiting trail.
Knowing how to coach and develop chemistry while bringing in the athletes that are needed to succeed is the winning combination to getting Siena back on track to returning to being a successful basketball program again.
Marc Brown could and in my own humble would do this, and do it quickly if only given the chance to do so.
Fire Rex today!
Hire Show Biz tomorrow!
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OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
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Post by OneIndian on Mar 3, 2018 8:40:04 GMT -5
☝️You got half the equation right. Brown isn’t coming to Siena it ain’t happenin’ so stop the nonsense.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 3, 2018 8:49:28 GMT -5
Gotta admire your resolution as a Siena fan. Stable solid fan. Like most over the top fans live in the past, be a bad deal for Brown and the school for,that hire. Great guy why set him up to,fail, doesn’t have experience or knowledge in managing this type of program yet, he may down the road, but not now.
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Post by MTS on Mar 3, 2018 12:23:32 GMT -5
Gotta admire your resolution as a Siena fan. Stable solid fan. Like most over the top fans live in the past, be a bad deal for Brown and the school for,that hire. Great guy why set him up to,fail, doesn’t have experience or knowledge in managing this type of program yet, he may down the road, but not now. I think it would be a terrible idea to hire Brown and he won't be considered. Yes he was the greatest to ever play at Siena but that doesn't make him a good head coach at the D1 level. Plus if you had to fire him how bad would that be? You might have your best player at odds with the school forever. No win situation.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Mar 3, 2018 12:31:02 GMT -5
And remember that at the D3 level, success is that much more difficult based on the college that you coach at. At the D3 level, the kids you are recruiting to come play for you are primarily basing their decision on where they want to play their college ball at is on what they and their parents first are looking for educationally, fiscally can afford, socially, geographically, and what the campus/towm amenities offer in terms of campus asthetics, college town reputation, etc..., and as a secondary thing or an equal thing at best, the athletics/history of the program. All of these players are not thinking they will ever be making money playing hoop after college. Whether realistic or not, even at the mid major level, many of these players are thinking when they choose a college, that they will have a chance to be playing professionally after graduation. At the D1 level the "majority" of the student athletes primarily base their decisions on athletics/the coach/the athletic facilities/the reputation of the program "first"......and then all the educational/social/campus stuff as part of all of the secondary reasons to choose a school. Marc Brown has done pretty darn well at a D3 school that does not have nearly the same reputation as many of its counterparts in the northeast let alone nationally. Despite this he has done well enough because he knows how to coach and develop a chemistry between the players he can get to come to play there. At Siena, he would have much more at his disposal than many of his mid major counterparts as a whole, let alone vs. other MAAC schools he is competing against. Meaning a majority of the athletes I think he would bring in here would be athletes who he got to come to Siena in competitive recruiting situations who have other mid major or higher offers. I think he would kill it on the recruiting trail. Knowing how to coach and develop chemistry while bringing in the athletes that are needed to succeed is the winning combination to getting Siena back on track to returning to being a successful basketball program again. Marc Brown could and in my own humble would do this, and do it quickly if only given the chance to do so. Fire Rex today! Hire Show Biz tomorrow! Yeah, that's not true (regarding d3 players). They get recruited just like D1, they just don't get the fancy recruiting visits or scholarship money. I know little of Brown as a coach and on't have an opinion on him making hte move to D1. But the Saints have made "easy" choices the last two hires. If JP is going to be replaced, would prefer they went the harder path and actually try and find the right candidate rather than the easy one.
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CellarRat
Assistant Coach
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Post by CellarRat on Mar 3, 2018 12:37:56 GMT -5
Gotta admire your resolution as a Siena fan. Stable solid fan. Like most over the top fans live in the past, be a bad deal for Brown and the school for,that hire. Great guy why set him up to,fail, doesn’t have experience or knowledge in managing this type of program yet, he may down the road, but not now. I think it would be a terrible idea to hire Brown and he won't be considered. Yes he was the greatest to ever play at Siena but that doesn't make him a good head coach at the D1 level. Plus if you had to fire him how bad would that be? You might have your best player at odds with the school forever. No win situation. On another note - according to Papi the Brown days, Bennerman days, Moore days are all aberrations, we shouldn’t expect a program like that again.
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Mar 3, 2018 13:27:45 GMT -5
You have to ask this question of brown or any coach they would hire this year: is he worth laying out $1 million now to get this guy?
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 3, 2018 13:43:54 GMT -5
Your asking for a crazy idea. Retire, fire Darg , make JP the AD at his current salary. One thing the guy has is a mouth and media savvy. Keep him til the contract runs out. Hire a new coach.
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Mar 4, 2018 13:39:58 GMT -5
Not saying they don't get recruited.
They of course do. Coaches at the D3 level want the best athletes at their level just as coaches at the D1 level want the best athletes at their level.
What I said is that most D3 athletes have not different priorities but a different "order" of those same priorities in choosing where they will go play ball and go to school vs. their D1 counterparts.
As far as Marc Brown goes, I said
if
you cannot afford to pay fair market value for a new HC while still paying JP,
then
the next alternative to consider is between choosing either:
A) to keep Rex on for the next 1/3 yrs
or
B) finding someone at under market value to come in and take over the reign for the next 2/3 yrs.
And to this scenario, I say the program is much more at risk in choosing A than choosing B and that by choosing B could be a program saving choice.
And if you choose B under this scenario, Marc Brown would be an excellent choice, who would probably be willing to listen to such an offer and opportunity in taking a chance on his abilities to be a very good D1 Coach who would be a success at Siena.
Heck, just as with many career spots, he could be named the "Interim" HC until he proves himself to be considered the next full time HC if needed be?
He would certainly do no worse than Rex and given the chance, would in all probability do much, much better than Rex.
If you have to go this route:
Very little risk if you do something vs very high risk if you do nothing (again. "if" you have to go this route where you can't hire a new HC at fair market value).
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Mar 4, 2018 13:42:32 GMT -5
You are not going to get a head coach under market value!!!
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