Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Jan 30, 2018 17:37:24 GMT -5
I like that he has a style...and his strengths were much more effective with guys like Wright and Bisping out there. He has a certain potential about him that frustrates me when blows it in so many other ways. His .500 could be .600 or .700 if he just got his head out of his ass sometimes. If he was a little smarter in using his personnel..he could even get away with lazy recruiting because he does some good stuff in the toughness categories with his teams. This is basically what I said about a week ago. JP wants lots of versatile bigs who can pound the glass, a PG who is super fast to get transition leakouts and run the show, and a “glue guy” wing a la Ryan Oliver who will do everything. I actually think the 2015-16 team was best suited for a JP title, but those Iona and Monmouth teams that year were unbelievably good and Quis got injured which hurt that upside (Wormley was leading leakouts and Nico was bringing the scoring punch). Instead, JP has none of that. His PG is a game manager who can hit 3’s, lead, and not make too many mistakes. He’s surrounded him with lots of combo guards and wings, none of whom are complete players (Horn and Shivers closest) but all of whom can play a role on a MAAC team. Then a thin group of bigs who don’t really fit what Patsos wants to do other than Fisher’s leadership, Prince’s post moves and Sammy’s overall activity and energy (sometimes). If you put those all together he has the blueprint for a perfect JP Big. The biggest recruiting mistakes haven’t been missing on kids to UVM, they’ve been recruiting the wrong kids for his system. These guys are capable players (not stars) in the right situation. And those mistakes very well may cost JP his job. Think you are undervaluing Penn. He's a freshman and still finding his way a bit. But he also doesn't have guys with the greatest hands or at finishing around him. His numbers compare favorably as a freshman to both Moore and Wright (they have better assist/steal numbers, he has much better shooting, scoring and rebounding numbers) He's still a freshman and has room and time to improve.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 17:39:54 GMT -5
Some of you guys are comical with the never ending ifs, excuses and annotations. It’s pretty simple. Bad coaching, bad recruiting leads to poor results. As long as Rex is here expect more of the same. You can bank on it.... You act like we're saying Jimmy is doing a good job. I've been calling Jimmy an idiot during games all year. But life is full of greys, dude. You seem to want it to all be black and white. If it was all black and white with last coach, Brett Bisping wouldn't have made 1st Team All-MAAC. You care not for looking at the deeper details. That's yours and Jimmy's style.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jan 30, 2018 17:43:09 GMT -5
No one is saying this team is a top 3 MAAC talent team. There have been mistakes and recruiting misses from that perspective that diminish the upside of this team. But there are simple things that we could be doing better that would improve our chances of winning greatly. Siena isn't getting blown out, they lose by 4-10 points every MAAC game. Our talent level is probably somewhere around the same level as Quinnipiac, Fairfield, Marist, and Monmouth. The reason why Quinny is 6-4 and the other 3 teams are 3-6, 3-7, and 2-7 is Baker Dunleavy plays to his roster's strengths. They shoot a lot of 3's, get to the line a lot, and they win close games. Give Baker Siena's roster and I think we are probably 5-5 or 6-4. Siena is losing games by close margins, margins that can be solved by good game plans, adjustments, and playing to our strengths. This isn't a roster to run flex offense. It's a roster to space things out, shoot 3's, and force the defense to extend out so you have more space to drive. Those "un-athletic D2-low mid players" look a lot better in games like the Hofstra one (Hofstra is 1 game out of first in the CAA) or the Robert Morris game (winning the NEC). You guys like numbers? 275 RPI 7-16 record .478 Patsos won pct at Siena That’s all the analytics I need Good lord, I want Patsos fired too. But you are as simple-minded as him when it comes to this stuff. You win and lose for a reason. Patsos has had enough career success (not a smash hit but he's won a league title and finished in the top 5 of his league 8 of 13 years in his career before this season (In the 4 years before and now 4 years after JP Loyola hasn't been in the top 5 of its league) to know that their is a formula that wins and loses games for him. The point being made is that Patsos hasn't recruited to or executed with the formula that has won him league games (and don't tell me the formula is just having super talented rosters because according to you and others he can't recruit). Marist doesn't win under Maker because he never coaches defense and he can't recruit enough talent to just outscore opposing teams with athleticism and shooting. As KK said it all comes down at the end to Points per shot and possession numbers, but there are tons of different ways to excel, that's how St Peter's and Iona can play the exact opposite styles to each other and still have the same record last season. Patsos hasn't put himself in a position to do that, and that's why there's a good chance he doesn't have a job in March. But the answer is not "Patsos can't coach a lick and has no strongsuits". That's a lazy and uninformed opinion.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jan 30, 2018 17:45:16 GMT -5
This is basically what I said about a week ago. JP wants lots of versatile bigs who can pound the glass, a PG who is super fast to get transition leakouts and run the show, and a “glue guy” wing a la Ryan Oliver who will do everything. I actually think the 2015-16 team was best suited for a JP title, but those Iona and Monmouth teams that year were unbelievably good and Quis got injured which hurt that upside (Wormley was leading leakouts and Nico was bringing the scoring punch). Instead, JP has none of that. His PG is a game manager who can hit 3’s, lead, and not make too many mistakes. He’s surrounded him with lots of combo guards and wings, none of whom are complete players (Horn and Shivers closest) but all of whom can play a role on a MAAC team. Then a thin group of bigs who don’t really fit what Patsos wants to do other than Fisher’s leadership, Prince’s post moves and Sammy’s overall activity and energy (sometimes). If you put those all together he has the blueprint for a perfect JP Big. The biggest recruiting mistakes haven’t been missing on kids to UVM, they’ve been recruiting the wrong kids for his system. These guys are capable players (not stars) in the right situation. And those mistakes very well may cost JP his job. Think you are undervaluing Penn. He's a freshman and still finding his way a bit. But he also doesn't have guys with the greatest hands or at finishing around him. His numbers compare favorably as a freshman to both Moore and Wright (they have better assist/steal numbers, he has much better shooting, scoring and rebounding numbers) He's still a freshman and has room and time to improve. I like Penn a lot and think he can be a very nice player, maybe even all-MAAC by the time he develops more. I was saying more stylistically in comparison to the PG's that Patsos has had when he's won games (Wright, Cormier) that he is more of floor general and shooter than the explosive driver and fast break finisher that Wright and Cormier were.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Jan 30, 2018 18:15:39 GMT -5
Think you are undervaluing Penn. He's a freshman and still finding his way a bit. But he also doesn't have guys with the greatest hands or at finishing around him. His numbers compare favorably as a freshman to both Moore and Wright (they have better assist/steal numbers, he has much better shooting, scoring and rebounding numbers) He's still a freshman and has room and time to improve. I like Penn a lot and think he can be a very nice player, maybe even all-MAAC by the time he develops more. I was saying more stylistically in comparison to the PG's that Patsos has had when he's won games (Wright, Cormier) that he is more of floor general and shooter than the explosive driver and fast break finisher that Wright and Cormier were. I think you are misreading it a bit ... there is a reason that they tried to move Wright to the 2g because he wanted to score more and distribute less. I think JP likes having a pass first guard who will manage the game for him. To be honest, so do I. My favorite all time Siena pg is not Brown or Bennerman, it's Moore.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 30, 2018 18:33:21 GMT -5
You guys like numbers? 275 RPI 7-16 record .478 Patsos won pct at Siena That’s all the analytics I need Good lord, I want Patsos fired too. But you are as simple-minded as him when it comes to this stuff. You win and lose for a reason. Patsos has had enough career success (not a smash hit but he's won a league title and finished in the top 5 of his league 8 of 13 years in his career before this season (In the 4 years before and now 4 years after JP Loyola hasn't been in the top 5 of its league) to know that their is a formula that wins and loses games for him. The point being made is that Patsos hasn't recruited to or executed with the formula that has won him league games (and don't tell me the formula is just having super talented rosters because according to you and others he can't recruit). Marist doesn't win under Maker because he never coaches defense and he can't recruit enough talent to just outscore opposing teams with athleticism and shooting. As KK said it all comes down at the end to Points per shot and possession numbers, but there are tons of different ways to excel, that's how St Peter's and Iona can play the exact opposite styles to each other and still have the same record last season. Patsos hasn't put himself in a position to do that, and that's why there's a good chance he doesn't have a job in March. But the answer is not "Patsos can't coach a lick and has no strongsuits". That's a lazy and uninformed opinion. he better come up with an answer soon...........he isn't going to be allowed to "nurture" young players until they become upperclassmen to strive for a league title.....he had brought that class in the previous 4 yrs but wasn't able to cash in with that group..............SO, he needs to turn it around NOW or be cut loose after this season................yet IF he is allowed to stay for 1 more yr after this (because of financial constraints handcuffed to the school), then he MUST get 4-5 more quality players immediately, AND he will need to get a complete new staff of coaches that can help him figure it out (because collectively they aren't getting it done, with apologies to Manning, a change for them would be a good thing as well)............
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Jan 30, 2018 18:45:32 GMT -5
JP has enough pieces that he shouldn't be running a flex run down the clock offense.IMO it's what KK has said he doesn't know what to do with the pieces he has.Therefore causing me to put no faith in him changing even if he gets some good recruits.Close your eyes Penn,Zachery,Welch,Johnson,Prince/Fisher.Coming off the bench Horn,Shivers Huerter Bentley,Camper didn't put Richard or Sammy down PPC said there leaving so WORD.That team on potential with the growth of the freshman and the guys coming in could win a ncaa tournament game eventually just my opinion.
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Jan 30, 2018 18:51:44 GMT -5
The change needs to come from him not the staff,he needs to start listening to there suggestions.Believe me asst.coaches make the suggestion great/good coaches listen to there assistants that's why they hire them.So So coaches listen to themselves JMO
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jan 30, 2018 19:01:41 GMT -5
The team is fatally flawed, add a bad coach and a roster made up of un-athletic D2-low mid players and you get exactly what we’ve seen over and over this season. The team lacks foot speed defense is horrible. Playing small making a plan or playing Friday more....is all BS and isn’t helping. Put a bullet in the season and call it a day. How many games (live) have you been to, I’m getting the impression not many. The box score doesnt tell it all. I see no strength in this coach. No one is saying this team is a top 3 MAAC talent team. There have been mistakes and recruiting misses from that perspective that diminish the upside of this team. But there are simple things that we could be doing better that would improve our chances of winning greatly. Siena isn't getting blown out, they lose by 4-10 points every MAAC game. Our talent level is probably somewhere around the same level as Quinnipiac, Fairfield, Marist, and Monmouth. The reason why Quinny is 6-4 and the other 3 teams are 3-6, 3-7, and 2-7 is Baker Dunleavy plays to his roster's strengths. They shoot a lot of 3's, get to the line a lot, and they win close games. Give Baker Siena's roster and I think we are probably 5-5 or 6-4. Siena is losing games by close margins, margins that can be solved by good game plans, adjustments, and playing to our strengths. This isn't a roster to run flex offense. It's a roster to space things out, shoot 3's, and force the defense to extend out so you have more space to drive. Those "un-athletic D2-low mid players" look a lot better in games like the Hofstra one (Hofstra is 1 game out of first in the CAA) or the Robert Morris game (winning the NEC). Funny you should mention RM and Hofstra games. Games we won were Nico had 20 and 17 respectively. I know, I know Horn. Sure he picked up some of Nico’s slack on offense but like most on this team he’s a plodding defender. You can space things out, pound it inside, go small, go big, speed it up or slow it up, you can’t get blood from a stone. Patsos has tried just about every available combo end result is the same. The team and coach simply aren’t good enough. Why’s that so hard to see? A loss is a loss by one or forty-one. Don’t fall into that trap we’re better than our record. No we’re not!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 19:36:28 GMT -5
No one is saying this team is a top 3 MAAC talent team. There have been mistakes and recruiting misses from that perspective that diminish the upside of this team. But there are simple things that we could be doing better that would improve our chances of winning greatly. Siena isn't getting blown out, they lose by 4-10 points every MAAC game. Our talent level is probably somewhere around the same level as Quinnipiac, Fairfield, Marist, and Monmouth. The reason why Quinny is 6-4 and the other 3 teams are 3-6, 3-7, and 2-7 is Baker Dunleavy plays to his roster's strengths. They shoot a lot of 3's, get to the line a lot, and they win close games. Give Baker Siena's roster and I think we are probably 5-5 or 6-4. Siena is losing games by close margins, margins that can be solved by good game plans, adjustments, and playing to our strengths. This isn't a roster to run flex offense. It's a roster to space things out, shoot 3's, and force the defense to extend out so you have more space to drive. Those "un-athletic D2-low mid players" look a lot better in games like the Hofstra one (Hofstra is 1 game out of first in the CAA) or the Robert Morris game (winning the NEC). Funny you should mention RM and Hofstra games. Games we won were Nico had 20 and 17 respectively. I know, I know Horn. Sure he picked up some of Nico’s slack on offense but like most on this team he’s a plodding defender. You can space things out, pound it inside, go small, go big, speed it up or slow it up, you can’t get blood from a stone. Patsos has tried just about every available combo end result is the same. The team and coach simply aren’t good enough. Why’s that so hard to see? A loss is a loss by one or forty-one. Don’t fall into that trap we’re better than our record. No we’re not! He’s tried them, sure. But stuck with them and developed them, no. Just cause it doesn’t work for a 2 min stretch and someone doesn’t make a couple shots doesn’t mean you give up. At some point you have fully commit to a strategy. Jimmy takes these players and expects them to earn a spot in his system instead of taking these players and designing a system around them and their skills. He recruited himself here...but even with that he could have made the best of it and they could have a better record. He spends a lot of time with square pegs in round holes.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jan 30, 2018 23:43:10 GMT -5
Nico lost more games for us than he won. Yeah he had his moments, but the stuff the board doesnt know about, was detrimental to the team.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 31, 2018 0:39:34 GMT -5
Nico lost more games for us than he won. Yeah he had his moments, but the stuff the board doesnt know about, was detrimental to the team. yes that is true, they even had to move him off campus this yr to try & cope with all the baggage..........still, that 2nd half performance he gave vs. Monmouth last March was of epic magnitude, without it JP never gets to the final........
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Jan 31, 2018 0:42:49 GMT -5
It was dissapointing not to see Sammy Friday playing in the 2nd half.He would outperform Fisher or Oduro on most nights,his aggresivness around the basket,whether on offense or defense is surely noticed by Siena fans.he could have been productive at stopping SP players driving to the hoop as Fisher cannot stop anyone because he is too slow and they step right around him,he also just stands flatfooted with his hands straight up allowing opposing players to lay the ball in the basket as if they are doing warmups.Does anyone else notice this or am I delusional! Yes and it blows my mind. To make it even more ludicrous, after the game going home I'm listening to the game wrap up on 1300. And they're giving the defensive player of the game award to Evan. Are you freaking kidding me??
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Post by great10110 on Jan 31, 2018 9:26:48 GMT -5
It was dissapointing not to see Sammy Friday playing in the 2nd half.He would outperform Fisher or Oduro on most nights,his aggresivness around the basket,whether on offense or defense is surely noticed by Siena fans.he could have been productive at stopping SP players driving to the hoop as Fisher cannot stop anyone because he is too slow and they step right around him,he also just stands flatfooted with his hands straight up allowing opposing players to lay the ball in the basket as if they are doing warmups.Does anyone else notice this or am I delusional! Yes and it blows my mind. To make it even more ludicrous, after the game going home I'm listening to the game wrap up on 1300. And they're giving the defensive player of the game award to Evan. Are you freaking kidding me?? Fridays problem is that he always find himself out of position on the defensive end. I agree Evan is a horrible defender and can not figure out for the life of me why they continue to play him the minutes that he gets. Friday is a project and had 0 offers coming out I believe. Hopefully he stays next year and dedicates himself to getting into better shape and adding 5-10 lbs of muscle. Think that would help him big time.
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Jan 31, 2018 10:30:36 GMT -5
Friday needs to be in a different offensive structure.His skill set doesn't fit what JP wants to run this year.Yeah he's always lost defense but part of that is not playing.If i was Sammy i would leave find somewhere where I'm going to play.I think he's a D1 player just a fresh start is best sometimes.I hear what you say about offers but in basketball it's about fit and development.Some players develop and some just don't same with fit.I don't understand why he isn't playing more but then again I'm not the coach.I'm just a person on a blog with a opinion.
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