CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 30, 2017 15:46:09 GMT -5
The difference was Fran had taken two different teams to the ncaas within several years of hire. That’s the winning formula. Agreed - but I know I was hopefull that JP would recruit like a SOB at Siena-- I never knew he took mid march till late august off. Nor did I really know how bad a recruiter he was at Loyola- it was transfers that kept his head above water. But anyway Siena and Siena fans have to live with this 500 coach now or just drop being a fan until so-so Jimbo is gone. The last game it was like a ghost town in the arena minus the tumbleweed. The administration is in for a big surprise if they think this will last with the current success level. I’ll get season tickets at UA. I think that program is on the move up and it should be an exciting ride. I’m hoping for a change after this year, if not I’m probably gone. Really there is no excuse. I can’t imagine the school could not raise the money needed to get a fresh start.
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Dec 30, 2017 15:48:34 GMT -5
The talent level of the players being brought and the mix/lack of complementary talent is the biggest difference between the current era and the FM years. Fran's players were head and shoulders above the current roster. If Jimmy brought in the same talent as Fran, IMO his record would be much improved. I think JP is a good coach, not a great one (well above .500) or an awful one (well below .500). Just good (and I know many on here disagree). When you combine a good coach with mediocre players you get .500 results. Is it lazy recruiting? Lack of talent recognition? His extreme coaching style that scares off solid recruits? The programs current skid? Or all of the above? Whatever the reason, the talent on the roster, top to bottom is not anywhere what it used to be on the best of all times Saints teams.
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Dec 30, 2017 15:51:29 GMT -5
Agreed - but I know I was hopefull that JP would recruit like a SOB at Siena-- I never knew he took mid march till late august off. Nor did I really know how bad a recruiter he was at Loyola- it was transfers that kept his head above water. But anyway Siena and Siena fans have to live with this 500 coach now or just drop being a fan until so-so Jimbo is gone. The last game it was like a ghost town in the arena minus the tumbleweed. The administration is in for a big surprise if they think this will last with the current success level. I’ll get season tickets at UA. I think that program is on the move up and it should be an exciting ride. I’m hoping for a change after this year, if not I’m probably gone. Really there is no excuse. I can’t imagine the school could not raise the money needed to get a fresh start. It was a Friday night before a holiday weekend, students on break,the weather at side was awful, snow and slippery roads and the game was on TV. Do you think that might had something to do with the low attendance? Let's keep things honest and in perspective here. UA teams are boring to watch. Games are boring to attend. Facility is sub-par. Go enjoy that half empty arena. Not fun in my opinion.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Dec 30, 2017 15:55:51 GMT -5
Agreed — I have been saying all along that he has the three years left on contract—- all we can do is wait at this point. Call it a death penalty.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Dec 30, 2017 15:58:08 GMT -5
Agreed - but I know I was hopefull that JP would recruit like a SOB at Siena-- I never knew he took mid march till late august off. Nor did I really know how bad a recruiter he was at Loyola- it was transfers that kept his head above water. But anyway Siena and Siena fans have to live with this 500 coach now or just drop being a fan until so-so Jimbo is gone. The last game it was like a ghost town in the arena minus the tumbleweed. The administration is in for a big surprise if they think this will last with the current success level. I’ll get season tickets at UA. I think that program is on the move up and it should be an exciting ride. I’m hoping for a change after this year, if not I’m probably gone. Really there is no excuse. I can’t imagine the school could not raise the money needed to get a fresh start. That's worth a discussion. How do you raise money like that? It has to be done TOTALLY under the covers. If you're not prepared to pull the trigger regardless then you CAN"T let that leak at all. Plus, his contract is thru 2021, correct? I know MTS will disagree but I wouldn't be surprised if all of it is guaranteed. If not, I have to believe that a most of 2 more years is. I wish I was wrong, but common sense says the guy's agent/lawyer would have to protect him for a good portion of it. There's a lot going on at the higher ed level with the free SUNY tuition that private schools have to be EXTREMELY careful. The competition for that dollar is getting tighter and tighter.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Dec 30, 2017 16:01:31 GMT -5
The last game it was like a ghost town in the arena minus the tumbleweed. The administration is in for a big surprise if they think this will last with the current success level. I’ll get season tickets at UA. I think that program is on the move up and it should be an exciting ride. I’m hoping for a change after this year, if not I’m probably gone. Really there is no excuse. I can’t imagine the school could not raise the money needed to get a fresh start. That's worth a discussion. How do you raise money like that? . It has to be done TOTALLY under the covers. If you're not prepared to pull the trigger regardless then you CAN"T let that least at all. Plus, his contract is thru 2021, correct? I know MTS will disagree and I would be surprised if all of its is not guaranteed, but I have to believe that a good portion of 2 more years is. I wish I was wrong, but common sense says the guys agent/lawyer would have to protect him for a good portion of it. There's a lot going on at the higher ed level with the free SUNY tuition that private schools have to be EXTREMELY careful. The competition for that dollar is getting tighter and tighter. . I don’t see Siena or anyone raising $1000,000 plus for a buyout. Plus paying two coaches is what got us patsos in the first place. Just wait it out save the million for more of a sure thing four years down the road. Hopefully we at least make a few more cbis while we wait.... but please please no more extensions.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 30, 2017 16:04:07 GMT -5
The last game it was like a ghost town in the arena minus the tumbleweed. The administration is in for a big surprise if they think this will last with the current success level. I’ll get season tickets at UA. I think that program is on the move up and it should be an exciting ride. I’m hoping for a change after this year, if not I’m probably gone. Really there is no excuse. I can’t imagine the school could not raise the money needed to get a fresh start. It was a Friday night before a holiday weekend, students on break,the weather at side was awful, snow and slippery roads and the game was on TV. Do think that might had something to do with the low attendance. Let's keep things honest and in perspective here. UA teams are boring to watch. Games are boring to attend. Facility is sub-par. Go enjoy that half empty arena. I’ve been to every home game to date. The seats are empty and the numbers aren’t real. The numbers are subsidized - let’s be honest. No offense but you seem like an apologist. So let’s be honest, that place was empty and it had a lot more to do with the program’s decline than the factors you mention. Your tv arguments are ridiculous. The anti-tv people should get a grip. It’s not the carrier dome. Tv for the Siena program is a plus not a minus. We need new young fans. A kid watching today will be sitting in a seat in years to come.
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Post by Tony on Dec 30, 2017 16:09:55 GMT -5
I have no solid inside information on this- but my "take" is he has 2 or 3 years left guaranteed. The fact So-so is out recruiting so hard in season leads me to believe he feels his job is in danger after next season. Siena has been known to eat a year of a contract but in today's climate not even sure they would do that. If attendance continues to fall or we have 1000's of no shows per game it just might force their hand , but my gut feeling is we are stuck with so-so at least 1 more year after this year ( maybe more) Darg really should be let go if that is the case
and I agree on attendance I've been to most of the home games--in fact been to most home games since the Deane years. Anyway the attendance numbers this year are the most "fudged" I have seen ever at the TUC. Might be all no shows-- but man they aren't even close to real numbers
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Dec 30, 2017 16:10:03 GMT -5
That's worth a discussion. How do you raise money like that? . It has to be done TOTALLY under the covers. If you're not prepared to pull the trigger regardless then you CAN"T let that least at all. Plus, his contract is thru 2021, correct? I know MTS will disagree and I would be surprised if all of its is not guaranteed, but I have to believe that a good portion of 2 more years is. I wish I was wrong, but common sense says the guys agent/lawyer would have to protect him for a good portion of it. There's a lot going on at the higher ed level with the free SUNY tuition that private schools have to be EXTREMELY careful. The competition for that dollar is getting tighter and tighter. . I don’t see Siena or anyone raising $1000,000 plus for a buyout. Plus paying two coaches is what got us patsos in the first place. Just wait it out save the million for more of a sure thing four years down the road. Hopefully we at least make a few more cbis while we wait.... but please please no more extensions. Continuing on the 'dead' theme (somebody mentioned a Death Penalty), but no extensions would be like Dead Man Walking. Do schools even do that? I just don't know. Unless you can announce an extension, really put no guaranties in it. But is that even a contract? LOL! You have to hope he would find a better (less stressful) job he would want to leave here for. Not sure he could/would do TV for long. Seems like that act would get old soon.
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Post by Tony on Dec 30, 2017 16:19:42 GMT -5
. I don’t see Siena or anyone raising $1000,000 plus for a buyout. Plus paying two coaches is what got us patsos in the first place. Just wait it out save the million for more of a sure thing four years down the road. Hopefully we at least make a few more cbis while we wait.... but please please no more extensions. Continuing on the 'dead' theme (somebody mentioned a Death Penalty), but no extensions would be like Dead Man Walking. Do schools even do that? I just don't know. Unless you can announce an extension, really put no guaranties in it. But is that even a contract? LOL! You have to hope he would find a better (less stressful) job he would want to leave here for. Not sure he could/would do TV for long. Seems like that act would get old soon. So-so will never leave money on table- he will be here as long as he has guaranteed money
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Dec 30, 2017 16:22:54 GMT -5
Continuing on the 'dead' theme (somebody mentioned a Death Penalty), but no extensions would be like Dead Man Walking. Do schools even do that? I just don't know. Unless you can announce an extension, really put no guaranties in it. But is that even a contract? LOL! You have to hope he would find a better (less stressful) job he would want to leave here for. Not sure he could/would do TV for long. Seems like that act would get old soon. So-so will never leave money on table- he will be here as long as he has guaranteed money Not necessarily disagreeing, but stress/pressure can affect many things.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Dec 30, 2017 16:35:56 GMT -5
. I don’t see Siena or anyone raising $1000,000 plus for a buyout. Plus paying two coaches is what got us patsos in the first place. Just wait it out save the million for more of a sure thing four years down the road. Hopefully we at least make a few more cbis while we wait.... but please please no more extensions. Continuing on the 'dead' theme (somebody mentioned a Death Penalty), but no extensions would be like Dead Man Walking. Do schools even do that? I just don't know. Unless you can announce an extension, really put no guaranties in it. But is that even a contract? LOL! You have to hope he would find a better (less stressful) job he would want to leave here for. Not sure he could/would do TV for long. Seems like that act would get old soon. . Big time programs don’t... they put up the cash and move on. As for siena, The program is already dead... it loses nothing by waiting. Let the big time fans who don’t care if they win or lose carry the program for three more years while building up reserves. Then when the time is right make a dynamite hire and build it up again. Instead of using the money on a buyout, use it on a good coach. Because unless Siena has the money to buyout coach AND hire an upgrade, it gains nothing by making a change now. Just don’t get suckered (a fourth time) into adding years when the saints have marginal winning seasons.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Dec 30, 2017 16:46:44 GMT -5
Continuing on the 'dead' theme (somebody mentioned a Death Penalty), but no extensions would be like Dead Man Walking. Do schools even do that? I just don't know. Unless you can announce an extension, really put no guaranties in it. But is that even a contract? LOL! You have to hope he would find a better (less stressful) job he would want to leave here for. Not sure he could/would do TV for long. Seems like that act would get old soon. . Big time programs don’t... they put up the cash and move on. As for siena, The program is already dead... it loses nothing by waiting. Let the big time fans who don’t care if they win or lose carry the program for three more years while building up reserves. Then when the time is right make a dynamite hire and build it up again. Instead of using the money on a buyout, use it on a good coach. Because unless Siena has the money to buyout coach AND hire an upgrade, it gains nothing by making a change now. Just don’t get suckered (a fourth time) into adding years when the saints have marginal winning seasons. This all makes sense, but makes makes for a long 3 years. And it takes a lot of restraint on the admins if there is a 'decent' year., which is probably inevitable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 17:06:28 GMT -5
.500 career winning percentage. That is all you guys need to remember. When you do that everything else, including expectations fall into place. That is what Siena hired and that is what they have gotten and what they seem to be OK with. To expect anything more is to only set yourself up for frustration and disappointed. Until the College and Athletic dept. tell us otherwise, the past five years is the new normal for the Siena Saints. We can bitch and moan all we want, but in the end, we have a .500 career coach who has shown us if nothing else, he is what his record says he is. Go Saints! What you say may have a ring of truth in it but there is at least one glaring inconsistency - the upgrade to the ARC, specifically the men's practice facility, new weight room, etc., was originally sold to us on the expectation that the changes would up our recruiting and, one could rightfully deduce, our level of play. The fan base, sponsor base and $'s won't hang around for a perennial almost "also ran". We know what we could be with a young, upcoming, hungry, basketball savvy coach. If the JP madness continues and UA continues to demonstrate a better than us product, I'll soon opt for the easier ride down '87. It hurts to watch good hoop at all levels and then watch what we had to endure last night and our HC doesn't have a clue how to right the ship...sad
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 30, 2017 17:07:08 GMT -5
. Big time programs don’t... they put up the cash and move on. As for siena, The program is already dead... it loses nothing by waiting. Let the big time fans who don’t care if they win or lose carry the program for three more years while building up reserves. Then when the time is right make a dynamite hire and build it up again. Instead of using the money on a buyout, use it on a good coach. Because unless Siena has the money to buyout coach AND hire an upgrade, it gains nothing by making a change now. Just don’t get suckered (a fourth time) into adding years when the saints have marginal winning seasons. This all makes sense, but makes makes for a long 3 years. And it takes a lot of restraint on the admins if there is a 'decent' year., which is probably inevitable. There lies the problem for people who want to see the program grow. Do we hope for failure so that immediate changes are made? People like Papi, and other apologists don’t care if we are back in the arc pounding salt. Let’s just hope the problem isn’t higher up in the administration. If this is the new normal maybe we have even more to worry about.
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