siena95
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Post by siena95 on Dec 14, 2017 14:26:34 GMT -5
So why is it Mitch got 2 raises before he was let go?!?!? Again, who is the imbecile putting these contracts together. Mitch should have been canned after season 1. Not only was he not fired, he gets a raise the for each of the next 2 seasons!?!? AYFKM? Why is Jimmy making Fran type of money? That's just F*cking insanse. Whoever is putting these contracts together needs to be sued for total incompetence. Wow. Simply stunning level of incompetence across the board. Looks like Mitch's contract was effectively 4 years at $300k but he agreed to take on a lesser salary in the first year while they were still paying Fran. I would guess this was what he made for the calendar year.. he was hired in March or April, so he didn't get a full years salary, just the pro-rated 8 or 9 months.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Dec 14, 2017 14:28:24 GMT -5
Your absolutely wrong on that point. There are just so many HC job openings in any given year. Are you telling me that an aspiring HC opportunity at what over the years (yes, I know, not the last 8) has been a top notch mid major program (much beyond wins and losses...i.e. - facility, fan base, local media exposure, easy access to northeast talent base, etc...) with a great level of respect given to it in coaching circles, would not jump at this opportunity? An opportunity to not only be a HC on their way up the path to coaching stardom, which every Asst HC at a Power Conference School believe's they can be the next Coach K, but at a stop where at the very worse they are making $350k, with an opportunity in year one to earn $800k? I think your crazy wrong on this one. You have to remember that all these guys think they are the best. Until proven wrong, there is no shortage of confidence at the Power Conference Asst Coach level that not only could they be a HC, but that they could be a successful HC. With such a competitive base such as $350k, it would be seen as a challenge by many, and for all those that would pass on such an opportunity because of it being an annual contract vs. being a multi year contract, there will be 5 other qualified candidates that would jump at this opportunity. Ok, maybe you land a good assistant (not convinced of that because the good ones will wait out the 5 year guaranteed deal like what Quinnipiac just gave Dunleavy). No chance you could grab a John Becker or a Nathan Davis (established winner at D1 level) who will leave all his job security for a 1 year pact that essentially could leave them jobless without a buyout in 2-3 years. The biggest reason why coaches almost never coach in the final year of their contract is that it becomes impossible to recruit and sit in the living room of a family and tell them with confidence that you’ll be there in 4 years when their son graduates. You are right that a lot of coaches will jump at the opportunity to coach at Siena, but not with ZERO security other than an AD saying “we’ll give you time”. They’ll get their 300-350k base salary with some incentives (like normal) and get raises/extensions when they make NCAA Tournaments. Okay, does this guy think they are hiring a coach for Cadwalleder? (Bonus points for anyone who can name the movie without googling it) No coach worth anthing is coming to Siena (or any other college) unless he is getting a 4 year guaranteed contract. Yes, there are bonus clauses in every contract including JP's. But the lifeline of coaching is recruiting and any new coach is going to require enough time to get at least one recruiting claim through the program.
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glen
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Post by glen on Dec 14, 2017 15:19:48 GMT -5
You guys are on crack if you think a Becker or anyone with a significant D1 track record is coming to Siena. There's no way we could pay Becker (or a guy like him) enough money to leave UVM. There's no reason to go backward to go forward. Fran took Siena for a bunch of reasons from what I gather. That was a unique circumstance. We haven't beaten UVM in 8 tries...we are not a step up. Not anymore.
An assistant would jump at the chance with zero security. Lots of private sector folks do that all the time. That said I'd be OK with a 1-year guarantee if you need more than a $300K severance then look elsewhere.
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$cott
Assistant Coach
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Post by $cott on Dec 14, 2017 15:30:33 GMT -5
No recruits are going to come sign up to play for a coach with no guarantee. The idea of getting a new coach on a one year guarantee is complete and total fantasy.
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sky
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Post by sky on Dec 14, 2017 15:55:09 GMT -5
Sometimes you have to go down before you go up
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Post by MTS on Dec 14, 2017 16:59:24 GMT -5
You guys are on crack if you think a Becker or anyone with a significant D1 track record is coming to Siena. There's no way we could pay Becker (or a guy like him) enough money to leave UVM. There's no reason to go backward to go forward. Fran took Siena for a bunch of reasons from what I gather. That was a unique circumstance. We haven't beaten UVM in 8 tries...we are not a step up. Not anymore. An assistant would jump at the chance with zero security. Lots of private sector folks do that all the time. That said I'd be OK with a 1-year guarantee if you need more than a $300K severance then look elsewhere. Fran was at a low-major with no budget. No reason Siena couldn't get a coach like that again. That said the last three Siena HC had head coaching D1 experience and only Fran worked out so perhaps they go with the high-major assistant coach when the times comes. You're right we're not getting Becker now but we could've got him 5 years ago.
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Dec 15, 2017 0:04:01 GMT -5
If they did it, they 100% would get a number of current good young Power Conference Asst Coach candidates throwing their names in the hat who are aspiring to get a HC opportunity that could lead to bigger thibgs than Siena. Zero chance that this would not happen.
I used to want a current HC or someone who would stay on like a Gonzaga type guy.
Knowing who we are, I am no longer interested in following that path.
I would rather have the young guy who is aspiring for bigger and better things who we might possibly get lucky with in not only being successful but staying with us longer than expected with yes, annual contracts.
As far as sitting in a kids living room goes with recruiting, the annual contract will never be an issue.
That's if like any good salesman, you deal with that objection before it ever becomes an objection.
If spoken about in an honest and upfront confident way showing the recruit and his family that you feel comfortable talking about it, answering any concerns that they may about it, and controlling when and how it's delivered so in turn, the player and his family feel comfortable with you, the contract, and the school, it's not even an issue moving forward.
The guy with the right personality and the right swag and confidence and swag will make that delivery come across so good that the player and his family will feel the best type of contract out there is the one year annual contract.
HC opportunity. $350k base with a good chance to earn $500k (+) if your successful, at a low cost of living place, and a chance to coach at a 15,000 seat home facility, with a good 5k (+) fan base, with great local media coverage and is centrally located to being within 3/4 hrs of all the largest urban markets in the Northeast and Canada.
Ya. I think without a doubt, we would get a number of good candidates vieing for that opportunity.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Dec 15, 2017 0:18:35 GMT -5
If they did it, they 100% would get a number of current good young Power Conference Asst Coach candidates throwing their names in the hat who are aspiring to get a HC opportunity that could lead to bigger thibgs than Siena. Zero chance that this would not happen. I used to want a current HC or someone who would stay on like a Gonzaga type guy. Knowing who we are, I am no longer interested in following that path. I would rather have the young guy who is aspiring for bigger and better things who we might possibly get lucky with in not only being successful but staying with us longer than expected with yes, annual contracts. As far as sitting in a kids living room goes with recruiting, the annual contract will never be an issue. That's if like any good salesman, you deal with that objection before it ever becomes an objection. If spoken about in an honest and upfront confident way showing the recruit and his family that you feel comfortable talking about it, answering any concerns that they may about it, and controlling when and how it's delivered so in turn, the player and his family feel comfortable with you, the contract, and the school, it's not even an issue moving forward. The guy with the right personality and the right swag and confidence and swag will make that delivery come across so good that the player and his family will feel the best type of contract out there is the one year annual contract. HC opportunity. $350k base with a good chance to earn $500k (+) if your successful, at a low cost of living place, and a chance to coach at a 15,000 seat home facility, with a good 5k (+) fan base, with great local media coverage and is centrally located to being within 3/4 hrs of all the largest urban markets in the Northeast and Canada. Ya. I think without a doubt, we would get a number of good candidates vieing for that opportunity. Once again, I doubt it, but Even if they were lining up for the job, Wouldn’t those same coaches and many more be interested if they got that same 350k base and potential incentives, but the first 3 years were guaranteed and the final 2 were partially guaranteed? If the problem is that JP has too much guaranteed money left, that’s because he was given 2 extensions without an “N” tournament that were guaranteed. Not because he got a 5 year deal when he signed.
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hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
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Post by hoopjunkie on Dec 15, 2017 2:31:50 GMT -5
Ok, maybe you land a good assistant (not convinced of that because the good ones will wait out the 5 year guaranteed deal like what Quinnipiac just gave Dunleavy). No chance you could grab a John Becker or a Nathan Davis (established winner at D1 level) who will leave all his job security for a 1 year pact that essentially could leave them jobless without a buyout in 2-3 years. The biggest reason why coaches almost never coach in the final year of their contract is that it becomes impossible to recruit and sit in the living room of a family and tell them with confidence that you’ll be there in 4 years when their son graduates. You are right that a lot of coaches will jump at the opportunity to coach at Siena, but not with ZERO security other than an AD saying “we’ll give you time”. They’ll get their 300-350k base salary with some incentives (like normal) and get raises/extensions when they make NCAA Tournaments. Okay, does this guy think they are hiring a coach for Cadwalleder? (Bonus points for anyone who can name the movie without googling it) No coach worth anthing is coming to Siena (or any other college) unless he is getting a 4 year guaranteed contract. Yes, there are bonus clauses in every contract including JP's. But the lifeline of coaching is recruiting and any new coach is going to require enough time to get at least one recruiting claim through the program. . You mean, Swish, Deecey Dacey, Preacher and Hustler? Lol. Maybe we can get David Green to bring his recruiting expertise to Loudonville?! Lol. Ps- Fast Break
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Dec 15, 2017 6:35:05 GMT -5
Like I said.
There are just so many HC opportunities out there in any given year.
Opportunities that could be your path to you earning a multi year million dollar opportunity with a Power Conference school.
In addition there are just so many opportunities out there in general, inside or outside the industry, where in any given year, including year one, that you can earn a $350k base salary along with a realistic incentive laden based opportunity added on top of that base that could earn you another $100-$200k.
I do think this type of contract would be a much harder sell at a Power Conference level school at a more appropriate amount.
But at the mid major level that we are at where we have to come to accept that multi year contract or not, that we are, and always will be, a stepping stone for successful young aspiring Power Conference Asst HC's, annual contracts will not be a deterrent for a vast number of qualified candidates to throw their name into the hat.
Like I said. Play hard ball. They will come. We still have a lot to offer at the mid major level (that extends well beyond contracts) that most mid majors cannot get even close to touching.
And that includes an active board like this and a loyal fan base that exceeds 5k pet game even after 8 straight years of failure.
Play hard ball Siena Admin. Fire D'Arg and Jimmy now. Offer annual one year renew able HC contracts. The will come.
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Dec 15, 2017 6:49:57 GMT -5
If you pick better coaches in the first place, you don’t have to worry about one year contracts. Smh.
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glen
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Post by glen on Dec 15, 2017 7:21:03 GMT -5
I'll add a few more things...
* Yes we picked 3 coaches with former D1 experience and only 1 worked out...the 1 with the best prior record. The other 2 were sketchy from the get-go. C'mon - Mitch was fired for crying out loud - and not from a BCS job but from a co-MAAC school. You had to be a colossal idiot to not expect disaster there (Yep, that's you D'Arg).
* You can sign a 4 year contract - with essentially little to no buy-out in the out years. This allows the coach to say he's under contract while limiting exposure to the school. Deceptive? Maybe but what kid asks for the coach's Ts & Cs prior to committing.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Dec 15, 2017 8:31:14 GMT -5
Okay, does this guy think they are hiring a coach for Cadwalleder? (Bonus points for anyone who can name the movie without googling it) No coach worth anthing is coming to Siena (or any other college) unless he is getting a 4 year guaranteed contract. Yes, there are bonus clauses in every contract including JP's. But the lifeline of coaching is recruiting and any new coach is going to require enough time to get at least one recruiting claim through the program. . You mean, Swish, Deecey Dacey, Preacher and Hustler? Lol. Maybe we can get David Green to bring his recruiting expertise to Loudonville?! Lol. Ps- Fast Break +1 - Must be a Shaker grad
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Dec 15, 2017 8:57:50 GMT -5
. You mean, Swish, Deecey Dacey, Preacher and Hustler? Lol. Maybe we can get David Green to bring his recruiting expertise to Loudonville?! Lol. Ps- Fast Break +1 - Must be a Shaker grad great conditions to add. Sienasaintalyearong conditions are well thought out , but in reality will reduce the premium candidates substantially. Siena is in the situation its in due to the lazy attitude of those in charge of hiring. To get a coach to come here, be it aD1 coach with a winning record, a high level assistant more than monetary compensation will be needed. Siena can be and under the right circumstances can become a stepping stone again for higher level coaching. The history is there. The new coach will need to be in charge, yes he will have the physical facilities already there but will need to be able to bring in the players. Right conditions new coach accept lower compensation, if other employment factors are available. Much like Fran, he is autonomous, not having the bureaucrats, the lifers, looking over their shoulder. Not sure the school is ready for another Fran. Said it before, me I'd break the glass ceiling bring coach Abe back. Woman can coach and recruit. what do you have to lose.
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Post by SaintsFan on Dec 15, 2017 9:01:48 GMT -5
I'll add a few more things... * Yes we picked 3 coaches with former D1 experience and only 1 worked out...the 1 with the best prior record. The other 2 were sketchy from the get-go. C'mon - Mitch was fired for crying out loud - and not from a BCS job but from a co-MAAC school. You had to be a colossal idiot to not expect disaster there (Yep, that's you D'Arg). * You can sign a 4 year contract - with essentially little to no buy-out in the out years. This allows the coach to say he's under contract while limiting exposure to the school. Deceptive? Maybe but what kid asks for the coach's Ts & Cs prior to committing. 1 - As stated, Siena hired Mitch who had been fired as a head coach. He has the personality of a stone. Who thought this guy could walk into a living room and sell a future is an idiot.... probably the same idiot that chose #2 below. 2 - Siena and its fans had a clear view of Patsos antics and behavioral issues for YEARS. What idiot thought that was a good idea, i have no clue... but you are an idiot.
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