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Post by Tony on Jul 31, 2017 4:23:47 GMT -5
Not sure what Fran has to do with this thread? Are you saying Jimmy is recruiting same as Fran? Not all of Fran’s recruits were gold- however no staff in MAAC worked recruiting trail harder than Fran and his staff. Yes Fran got lucky with Kenny ( or was it a good eye) Ronald had an offer from Vermont ( a program that beats Jimmy like a drum on court and recruiting) Edwin had offers all over the place, it came down to Siena and Umass. Rossiter had an offer from Providence ( albeit they wanted him to prep for year) Alex had several offers, Clarence Jackson several mids came down to Siena and Richmond, in fact Clarence committed to Siena on his way home from his official visit to Richmond. OD had 30 or 40 offers, Same with Basabe—funny how lucky Fran and his staff were- of course no staff in MAAC worked recruiting trail harder. Same could be said of Iona staff right now- yes I know Iona can take anyone etc etc, when it comes to recruiting no staff in MAAC works harder than Iona—and once again that hard work pays off Iona gets lucky—funny how that works
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Post by Tony on Jul 31, 2017 4:45:31 GMT -5
I should add, Jimmy would have never signed Kenny- as you probably remember Fran signed Kenny in May- if its May that means triple crown races so head coach would be out of town of course March was Vietnam, April is Ireland ( used to be spring time in Paris) Please see Tyler Nash comments on Siena and its head coach in spring
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glen
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Post by glen on Jul 31, 2017 7:11:43 GMT -5
When Fran took the job he was derided by many on this board as ".500 Fran" and a horrible choice. A good percentage of you are still here and know who you are. As for recruiting skills and "luck", let's review Fran's efforts for the short time he was here. As the story goes Kenny had one other school show interest in him. Jacksonville took him to McDonald's, Fran took him to Jacks where he lobster for the first time in his life. (I would not consider Jack's "a Siena advantage"). When Kenny asked where his disabled dad would sit during games at the TUC, Fran pointed out the dozen or so handicap accessible places (a definite Siena advantage). Kenny was all but signed. He made Fran's legacy, the reason his jersey made it into the rafters the year after he graduated. Fran built a team around him. As I recall Ronald had some interest but no firm offers when Fran was visiting his mom and Fran got a phone call from an acquaintance suggesting he take a look at him, Ronald jumped at the chance. Pete Sheehan (Edwin's coach at Poughkeepsie) all but signed Edwin's name on his LOI. Not sure who recruited Alex, I recall Mitch's name being mentioned, but could be wrong. I believe it was Mitch, not Fran, that recruited Rossiter. At any rate, with those three classes (one class and two one guy signings) Fran's passport was stamped. Read it as you will, but I believe this to be pretty accurate. Fran was not "The Master Recruiter" some of you remember him as, he just didn't hang around along enough to live with his subsequent classes for it to show. BTW, I believe Basabe had played himself out of a starter roll by mid-way through his sophomore year and played less than 20 min per game soph-jr-sr years where he was a 7pt/5reb guy (still impressive for "a Siena recruit") but I bet JO or BB could match those numbers. So you're saying that Fran got lucky with 4 players over 3 consecutive years? Maybe but that's really not giving credit where it is due. Good recruiting is tough. It isn't as simple as just get talent. Lanier got plenty of talent. It needs to be talent at the right position with team chemistry and with guys who can stay in school. Fran got the right guys and had them working as a team. Is there luck involved? Sure but good coaches help make their own luck. Aside from Basabe, Fran had also recruited a supposedly top-flight PG to replace Ronald. I'm not sure how that kid turned out but my bet is that with Basabe and that PG, along with Clarence and Rossiter, he would've kept that train rolling. It certainly wouldn't have been the Mitch debacle. PS: Even if Basabe wasn't a starter by Jr. year the fact that he got reasonable minutes is incredible. That kid would have been a star in the MAAC.
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SIENA1971
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Post by SIENA1971 on Jul 31, 2017 7:52:43 GMT -5
There is more to recruiting then getting the highest ranked recruits ... the pieces have to fit together ... like chess you need to think 3 or 4 moves ahead ... in basketball that is looking now and in the future ... player temperaments come into play in a big way ... and you can't make promises just to give the recruits what they want to hear ... otherwise you'll have a 3 PG offensive team like developed this year 😎
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 7:57:57 GMT -5
There is more to recruiting then getting the highest ranked recruits ... the pieces have to fit together ... like chess you need to think 3 or 4 moves ahead ... in basketball that is looking now and in the future ... player temperaments come into play in a big way ... and you can't make promises just to give the recruits what they want to hear ... otherwise you'll have a 3 PG offensive team like developed this year 😎 Bingo!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 8:41:16 GMT -5
When Fran took the job he was derided by many on this board as ".500 Fran" and a horrible choice. A good percentage of you are still here and know who you are. As for recruiting skills and "luck", let's review Fran's efforts for the short time he was here. As the story goes Kenny had one other school show interest in him. Jacksonville took him to McDonald's, Fran took him to Jacks where he lobster for the first time in his life. (I would not consider Jack's "a Siena advantage"). When Kenny asked where his disabled dad would sit during games at the TUC, Fran pointed out the dozen or so handicap accessible places (a definite Siena advantage). Kenny was all but signed. He made Fran's legacy, the reason his jersey made it into the rafters the year after he graduated. Fran built a team around him. As I recall Ronald had some interest but no firm offers when Fran was visiting his mom and Fran got a phone call from an acquaintance suggesting he take a look at him, Ronald jumped at the chance. Pete Sheehan (Edwin's coach at Poughkeepsie) all but signed Edwin's name on his LOI. Not sure who recruited Alex, I recall Mitch's name being mentioned, but could be wrong. I believe it was Mitch, not Fran, that recruited Rossiter. At any rate, with those three classes (one class and two one guy signings) Fran's passport was stamped. Read it as you will, but I believe this to be pretty accurate. Fran was not "The Master Recruiter" some of you remember him as, he just didn't hang around along enough to live with his subsequent classes for it to show. BTW, I believe Basabe had played himself out of a starter roll by mid-way through his sophomore year and played less than 20 min per game soph-jr-sr years where he was a 7pt/5reb guy (still impressive for "a Siena recruit") but I bet JO or BB could match those numbers. So you're saying that Fran got lucky with 4 players over 3 consecutive years? Maybe but that's really not giving credit where it is due. Good recruiting is tough. It isn't as simple as just get talent. Lanier got plenty of talent. It needs to be talent at the right position with team chemistry and with guys who can stay in school. Fran got the right guys and had them working as a team. Is there luck involved? Sure but good coaches help make their own luck. Aside from Basabe, Fran had also recruited a supposedly top-flight PG to replace Ronald. I'm not sure how that kid turned out but my bet is that with Basabe and that PG, along with Clarence and Rossiter, he would've kept that train rolling. It certainly wouldn't have been the Mitch debacle. PS: Even if Basabe wasn't a starter by Jr. year the fact that he got reasonable minutes is incredible. That kid would have been a star in the MAAC. Bryon Allen was a solid player. Wasn't much of a shooter/scorer for most of his career but he was solid. He had a great senior year. Basabe was pretty good ...just not much of a passer. Just 48 assists in 4 years. He would have been like an Anosike for us only with blocked shots and a much better FT%. A frontcourt of Basabe, RyRo, and Anosike would have been just suffocating for opponents from a rebounding/interior scoring point of view. Probably wouldn't really have helped the turnover issues though.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jul 31, 2017 12:21:29 GMT -5
So you're saying this class is a low major class in your opinion just because of the offers they didn't get or never had a chance to get.Oh my fault all these coaches hit it with there recruits in mid majors.Remember the people ranking these kids don't even see them cause there to busy running after the same kids.I do believe Otto Porter didn't even play aau known max contract.I don't know why these kids chose other schools and if you do let us know why cause it always the coaches fault not kids just not choosing Siena.We haven't even given this team a chance to perform but all we keep doing is bashing them on what offers they didn't get man I'm glad these kids have supporters like some on the board.wtf Get used to it. Its all about the offers to most on this board. Thats how they rate the players. They also look at their rankings so beware
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Post by SaintsFan on Jul 31, 2017 12:27:36 GMT -5
why fran is fran and patsos is ... well.... patsos .... from an article: www.thedp.com/article/2017/07/fran-mccaffery-mens-basketball-q-and-aDP: And I’m interested, do you think outside of everything you learned on the court at Penn, both playing and coaching, do you think anything you learned at Wharton or in your classes still helps you as a coach? FM: There’s no question, because essentially, when you become a head coach at this level, you’re essentially a CEO of the basketball program. So the Wharton background is just an integral part of what I do on a daily basis — how do you motivate staff, how do you hire staff, how do you communicate with your players, how do you teach, how do you prepare, the sophistication of our of scouting reports and how we prepare and how we present to our players, and how we manage not just the season, but the whole calendar year. How we handle strength and conditioning, its being able to handle the administrative side, the public relations side, the financial side, and then the marketing and sales, and the recruiting side. It all fits together and those are all concepts that are ingrained in me through my experience with Wharton.
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mjs72
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Post by mjs72 on Jul 31, 2017 12:34:32 GMT -5
Isn't the HC supposed to be the closer with the staff doing a lot of the work in the field? I know it looks like Jimmy is suspect as a closer but I don't see Manning or the assistants who moved on being Andrew Francis either
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Post by hockeyguy on Jul 31, 2017 14:13:10 GMT -5
Tony, my point regarding Fran, who was fantastic for this program, is that he too took guys that had few to no other offers (and low-major at that) and they turned out to be "pretty good". So much for judging players by "other D1 coaches" being the best judge. Let's see how these guys turn out before
As for Basabe, Rossiter and OD being "suffocating", you couldn't play all three at once. In my humble opinion, Clarence was not Kenny's replacement, he simply took his spot on the floor. I know people will say we could have beaten Purdue if Clarence could have played, in response I will say Purdue would have embarassed Siena if Robbie Hummel could have played for them. It was not an even trade. "Mr. Floorburn" (forgot his name) almost single-handedly beat the Saints that day. Fran was out-coached, and the team was out-hustled and out-played. Fran knew he was leaving within a couple weeks, the show was over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 14:39:15 GMT -5
Tony, my point regarding Fran, who was fantastic for this program, is that he too took guys that had few to no other offers (and low-major at that) and they turned out to be "pretty good". So much for judging players by "other D1 coaches" being the best judge. Let's see how these guys turn out before As for Basabe, Rossiter and OD being "suffocating", you couldn't play all three at once. In my humble opinion, Clarence was not Kenny's replacement, he simply took his spot on the floor. I know people will say we could have beaten Purdue if Clarence could have played, in response I will say Purdue would have embarassed Siena if Robbie Hummel could have played for them. It was not an even trade. "Mr. Floorburn" (forgot his name) almost single-handedly beat the Saints that day. Fran was out-coached, and the team was out-hustled and out-played. Fran knew he was leaving within a couple weeks, the show was over. You couldn't play all three at once but RyRo wouldn't have had to play 37 MPG and guys like Martens and Walters never would have seen the floor. Basabe was also better than Anosike. He may have played over him. Don't you remember that Favors, Lawal, Peacock Georgia Tech frontcourt? They would have been like that...but for the MAAC. As far as CJ's absence not affecting the outcome of the Purdue game...that's just complete craziness. Had CJ played, that would have been a completely different game. The kid made 44% of Siena's total 3 pointers that year. Without him, there was no true perimeter threat. Moore was shooting 22% from three that year..and Ubiles was gimpy and only even attempted 73 that year. Without CJ, Siena was not a balanced team. It changed everything.
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Post by hockeyguy on Jul 31, 2017 14:56:34 GMT -5
Tony, my point regarding Fran, who was fantastic for this program, is that he too took guys that had few to no other offers (and low-major at that) and they turned out to be "pretty good". So much for judging players by "other D1 coaches" being the best judge. Let's see how these guys turn out before As for Basabe, Rossiter and OD being "suffocating", you couldn't play all three at once. In my humble opinion, Clarence was not Kenny's replacement, he simply took his spot on the floor. I know people will say we could have beaten Purdue if Clarence could have played, in response I will say Purdue would have embarassed Siena if Robbie Hummel could have played for them. It was not an even trade. "Mr. Floorburn" (forgot his name) almost single-handedly beat the Saints that day. Fran was out-coached, and the team was out-hustled and out-played. Fran knew he was leaving within a couple weeks, the show was over. You couldn't play all three at once but RyRo wouldn't have had to play 37 MPG and guys like Martens and Walters never would have seen the floor. Basabe was also better than Anosike. He may have played over him. Don't you remember that Favors, Lawal, Peacock Georgia Tech frontcourt? They would have been like that...but for the MAAC. As far as CJ's absence not affecting the outcome of the Purdue game...that's just complete craziness. Had CJ played, that would have been a completely different game. The kid made 44% of Siena's total 3 pointers that year. Without him, there was no true perimeter threat. Moore was shooting 22% from three that year..and Ubiles was gimpy and only even attempted 73 that year. Without CJ, Siena was not a balanced team. It changed everything. KK, read the whole thing that I wrote. Robbie Hummel was injured for Purdue for that game, he went on to play two seasons with the Timberwolves, how did CJ make out after college? Do you think it would have been a different game if BOTH teams had their "big guns" playing? Would "Mr Floorburn" (now I will have to look him up) have reduced CJ to 1 for 10 shooting with his hustle? We will never know. As I said, just my opinion.
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Post by hockeyguy on Jul 31, 2017 14:59:30 GMT -5
Chris Kramer
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 15:06:26 GMT -5
You couldn't play all three at once but RyRo wouldn't have had to play 37 MPG and guys like Martens and Walters never would have seen the floor. Basabe was also better than Anosike. He may have played over him. Don't you remember that Favors, Lawal, Peacock Georgia Tech frontcourt? They would have been like that...but for the MAAC. As far as CJ's absence not affecting the outcome of the Purdue game...that's just complete craziness. Had CJ played, that would have been a completely different game. The kid made 44% of Siena's total 3 pointers that year. Without him, there was no true perimeter threat. Moore was shooting 22% from three that year..and Ubiles was gimpy and only even attempted 73 that year. Without CJ, Siena was not a balanced team. It changed everything. KK, read the whole thing that I wrote. Robbie Hummel was injured for Purdue for that game, he went on to play two seasons with the Timberwolves, how did CJ make out after college? Do you think it would have been a different game if BOTH teams had their "big guns" playing? Would "Mr Floorburn" (now I will have to look him up) have reduced CJ to 1 for 10 shooting with his hustle? We will never know. As I said, just my opinion. His name was Kramer. If both were playing, Siena probably still loses, yes. But Purdue had more depth than Siena. Losing CJ hurt Siena a lot because there was only Downey behind him and he couldn't shoot...nor defend laterally. The drop off was huge. Siena were the favorites in that game until CJ got hurt. With him, I think they win. Yeah, if Hummel was playing it could have been different too but...and I say this with sincerity.. I would have rather played Purdue with both CJ and Hummel than without CJ and Hummel because we would have then been a balanced team. I think the CJ loss was devastating for us.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jul 31, 2017 15:21:43 GMT -5
You couldn't play all three at once but RyRo wouldn't have had to play 37 MPG and guys like Martens and Walters never would have seen the floor. Basabe was also better than Anosike. He may have played over him. Don't you remember that Favors, Lawal, Peacock Georgia Tech frontcourt? They would have been like that...but for the MAAC. As far as CJ's absence not affecting the outcome of the Purdue game...that's just complete craziness. Had CJ played, that would have been a completely different game. The kid made 44% of Siena's total 3 pointers that year. Without him, there was no true perimeter threat. Moore was shooting 22% from three that year..and Ubiles was gimpy and only even attempted 73 that year. Without CJ, Siena was not a balanced team. It changed everything. KK, read the whole thing that I wrote. Robbie Hummel was injured for Purdue for that game, he went on to play two seasons with the Timberwolves, how did CJ make out after college? Do you think it would have been a different game if BOTH teams had their "big guns" playing? Would "Mr Floorburn" (now I will have to look him up) have reduced CJ to 1 for 10 shooting with his hustle? We will never know. As I said, just my opinion. Purdue would have been a 1 seed if Hummel wasn't injured and Siena wouldn't have played them. Turned out he was overrated and the committee unfairly moved Purdue down too far due to his injury. Siena got screwed by that.
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