gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Apr 30, 2017 16:45:43 GMT -5
Are the haters all on vacation or have they just decided not to hijack a positive thread ? Any way I thank the nabobs of negativism for saving us from their constant criticism of Siena Basketball for even a day. Too busy with mets baseball and rangers playoff hockey
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Apr 30, 2017 17:56:55 GMT -5
Are the haters all on vacation or have they just decided not to hijack a positive thread ? Any way I thank the nabobs of negativism for saving us from their constant criticism of Siena Basketball for even a day. There's nothing to hate or like, what are you going to base it on a few clips and a pickup game. I'll wait for the season to start watch multiple games, evaluate the players and see how Jimbo handles the roster. Same ol' preseason speculation, it's all meaningless. Last year i read a E Fish was killing it pre season and was so improved.... preseason hype had us as the team to beat. How did that all play out....
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glen
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Post by glen on May 1, 2017 6:46:46 GMT -5
Ditto OI. I'm excited to see Penn and the rest of the newbies play, but my expectations are minimal. On paper we were loaded this past year with talent and experience and look how that turned out. I'll just wait and see and hope I score one of the giveaways in May :-)
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Post by siena12077 on May 1, 2017 8:00:49 GMT -5
Are the haters all on vacation or have they just decided not to hijack a positive thread ? Any way I thank the nabobs of negativism for saving us from their constant criticism of Siena Basketball for even a day. There's nothing to hate or like, what are you going to base it on a few clips and a pickup game. I'll wait for the season to start watch multiple games, evaluate the players and see how Jimbo handles the roster. Same ol' preseason speculation, it's all meaningless. Last year i read a E Fish was killing it pre season and was so improved.... preseason hype had is as the team to beat. How did that all play out.... And we were supposed to love Smithen's game and the impact he would make...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 8:50:16 GMT -5
There's nothing to hate or like, what are you going to base it on a few clips and a pickup game. I'll wait for the season to start watch multiple games, evaluate the players and see how Jimbo handles the roster. Same ol' preseason speculation, it's all meaningless. Last year i read a E Fish was killing it pre season and was so improved.... preseason hype had is as the team to beat. How did that all play out.... And we were supposed to love Smithen's game and the impact he would make... Last year, Siena made the finals like they were supposed to. It was just a bumpy road getting there but it wasn't necessarily talent related. Smithen did most of what he was supposed to on paper. He played backup PG and played good D. Nobody ever really had any proof that he would ever be a good shooter. Fisher got hyped by HJ who mostly was going off of what the coaches were saying...which is it's own issue. Take the coaches' evaluations with skepticism. I agree that you can't easily predict where a Patsos coached Siena team will end up. He's all over the place. But that's PRECISELY why I'm picking them to do well this coming year. Patsos surprises both good and bad. He'll probably do well next year and then suck when he's supposed to win the year after as the rest of the MAAC gets better. That's how he rolls. That theory combined with the foreign trip, more guard depth, and a decimated MAAC is why I have Siena doing well. MAAC PG Play Down:I'd say that Siena has 3 or 4 guys who might start at PG for a few MAAC teams next year. Right now Penn, Smithen, Richard, and Horn...if they were on say Quinny or Marist...you just know they'd be starting. I'm not sure Monmouth has a PG yet. They have every other position except PG settled in my mind and life without a dominant player like JRob will take some adjusting to. They will turn the ball over more, steal the ball less, and will be less dynamic in transition without he and Hornbeak running at teams all day. Like us now, they had a lot of PG capable players. But they are gone and have been replaced with mostly SGs or CGs with a rep of volume shooting. SPU's PGs are unproven (though Mikko Johnson may be a name to fear later). Malik Johnson (CC) and Segura (FF) have no offense or great wing depth around them. Manhattan's Zavier Turn'over' is Evan Hymes reincarnated and has averaged just 6.3 wins total per year in 3 years as the starting PG in D1. And they don't have another plan so they can move him off the ball like we did. Manhattan averaged 17 turnovers per game last year. Getting back Rich Williams who was turnover prone doesn't help that weakness. The creme de la creme of the PG position next year are McGill (Iona), Dukes (Niagara), and Jordan (Rider). 2 of those PGs were on PIG teams last year. Rider lost most of the team around Jordan and this years' transfers don't look as good as Carey and Thomas were...not even mentioning the loss of Lundy and Taylor whom I have no idea who will replace them. Wing and Front court Play less established:Wings were going to be a strength of the MAAC but then the majority of them up and transferred. After Iona, Scott (NU), Seaborn (MU), Nelson (FF), Crumpton (CC)and Williams of Manhattan are the only truly established wings left. We are not talking about a lot of established talent at wing either. And then the frontcourts are even more decimated. How afraid should we really be of Waterman, Crawford, and Daniels? Siena can win in this league with these players. After Iona, there will likely only be a few teams who even have their act together. And I'm not sure any of them will be a top 200 team. This is a MAAC that very well could be ranked below the America East next year.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on May 1, 2017 9:12:53 GMT -5
And we were supposed to love Smithen's game and the impact he would make... Last year, Siena made the finals like they were supposed to. It was just a bumpy road getting there but it wasn't necessarily talent related. Smithen did most of what he was supposed to on paper. He played backup PG and played good D. Nobody ever really had any proof that he would ever be a good shooter. Fisher got hyped by HJ who mostly was going off of what the coaches were saying...which is it's own issue. Take the coaches' evaluations with skepticism. 1) I saw Smithen play during his RS year, and said, "Will play very good defense in practice that will push Wright into being a better player, unlike Evan Hymes who presented no challenge. Doesn't offer much offensively. Leader, great effort kid, but we need better" 2)EF I "hyped" prior to his freshman year. I admit to being fooled from watching him score at will, on the block, against WB, who was the only healthy big on the floor (Silas and Brett were banged up and didnt play in the scrimmage I watched). The only positive thing I said about him last year, prior to the season, was he looked in a lot better shape. Inability to play defense or rebound was obvious from the beginning. Trust me, I make my own evaluations on the Siena players, and it usually doesn't make the staff very happy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 10:50:39 GMT -5
I can certainly see a scenario where Siena is Pigging again as well. I just get the good vibes on Penn and Horn like I did with Wright, Long, and Clareth. I think the backcourt of Penn, Horn, and Clareth has enough all-around upside and depth around them to potentially lead Siena to a surprisingly good year.
This isn't a Fisher situation where these guys were never on a winning team.
Penn lead his HS to 3 sectional championships and 1 regional championship and then had a monster 1/2 year in prep. Horn was a 4 year HS starting PG whose team barely ever lost and conference player of the year. Even Oduro's team only had 3 losses this year and one was vs. Findlay Prep who was #2 in the nation at the time.
These guys seem like winning guys to me. I've watched full games of Horn and Oduro and the mistakes they make are many of the same ones that I've seen of other good Siena players. These guys have tools. Oduro's team doesn't even have a plan to get him the ball. He rarely gets a clean post feed in the few games I saw. He, like an Anosike or a Jordan Washington, seems like a guy you need to feed down low and let him make some moves. D1 is more structured and that will be better for him I think.
Oduro, Degnan, and Friday don't need to be world beaters next year. They just need to rebound, defend, and score when the opportunity arises. The guards will likely do most of the scoring.
And nobody talks about Manny Camper cause he's such an unknown without much video but the kid looks more decently built in recent pictures than I expected...and we know he has hops. 30.5 ppg, 11 rpg, 2.2 bpg, 2.7 spg, 3.2 apg, 1.9 tpg with a 58% FG% in those 10 listed games on Maxpreps for this past year aren't numbers to sneeze at even if the competition isn't great.
As a backup 3/4, he could potentially be some combination of Alex Franklin, Lavon Long, or Deon Jones...getting rebounds, steals, and blocks while attacking and scoring inside and midrange. The fact that he almost had 2,000 pts in high school with the 3 ball being his weakness would indicate that he's a pretty agressive scorer. The minimal stats that are available suggest that the kid sets up residence on the FT line. If the 38 games on Maxpreps are any indication, he was at the line almost 8 or 9 times a game his last few years. That's like 270 FTA's in a year..video game stats. That many FTA's and assists per game decrease the likelihood he's a passive tweener like Jimmy Paige ended up being.
Siena could be a team with a fair amount of aggressiveness on both sides of the ball especially if he's good enough to make the rotation. Athleticism combined with aggression is usually a prettty good thing.
That kind of aggression is the reason why Monmouth was so good.
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musicman
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Post by musicman on May 1, 2017 11:08:51 GMT -5
I can certainly see a scenario where Siena is Pigging again as well. I just get the good vibes on Penn and Horn like I did with Wright, Long, and Clareth. I think the backcourt of Penn, Horn, and Clareth has enough all-around upside and depth around them to potentially lead Siena to a surprisingly good year. This isn't a Fisher situation where these guys were never on a winning team. Penn lead his HS to 3 sectional championships and 1 regional championship and then had a monster 1/2 year in prep. Horn was a 4 year HS starting PG whose team barely ever lost and conference player of the year. Even Oduro's team only had 3 losses this year and one was vs. Findlay Prep who was #2 in the nation at the time. These guys seem like winning guys to me. I've watched full games of Horn and Oduro and the mistakes they make are many of the same ones that I've seen of other good Siena players. These guys have tools. Oduro's team doesn't even have a plan to get him the ball. He rarely gets a clean post feed in the few games I saw. He, like an Anosike or a Jordan Washington, seems like a guy you need to feed down low and let him make some moves. D1 is more structured and that will be better for him I think. Oduro, Degnan, and Friday don't need to be world beaters next year. They just need to rebound, defend, and score when the opportunity arises. The guards will likely do most of the scoring. And nobody talks about Manny Camper cause he's such an unknown without much video but the kid looks more decently built in recent pictures than I expected...and we know he has hops. 30.5 ppg, 11 rpg, 2.2 bpg, 2.7 spg, 3.2 apg, 1.9 tpg with a 58% FG% in those 10 listed games on Maxpreps for this past year aren't numbers to sneeze at. As a backup 3/4, he could potentially be some combination of Alex Franklin, Lavon Long, or Deon Jones...getting rebounds, steals, and blocks while attacking and scoring inside and midrange. The fact that he almost had 2,000 pts in high school with the 3 ball being his weakness would indicate that he's a pretty agressive scorer. The minimal stats that are available suggest that the kid sets up residence on the FT line. If the 38 games on Maxpreps are any indication, he was at the line almost 8 or 9 times a game his last few years. That's like 270 FTA's in a year..video game stats. That many FTA's and assists per game decrease the likelihood he's a passive tweener like Jimmy Paige ended up being. Siena could be a team with a fair amount of aggressiveness on both sides of the ball especially if he's good enough to make the rotation. Athleticism combined with aggression is usually a prettty good thing. That kind of aggression is the reason why Monmouth was so good. I hear you KK. Exciting stuff. I can't wait to see these new kids. It's like Christmas. That's another reason why we can't walk away. Love for the team and the anticipation of a new season.
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Post by Tony on May 1, 2017 19:29:09 GMT -5
I have no problem with you guys being positive- the reality is nobody in conference lost as much as Siena- we have 1 player on entire roster that has avg more than 4 PPG at D1 level- the incoming recruits are for most part unheralded group , lightly recruited or not recruited at all by other D1 programs. Having a bunch of inexperienced guards is not a recipe for success in MAAC- add in a unproven front court-- Having said all that, I think Jimmy will have team playing hard and competing. He will pull off a few surprises. Lose to top teams in MAAC ( again for most part) and lose to Vermont and Albany again ( for most part) But wouldn’t be surprised to see Siena win 10 to 14 games- after all he isn’t stinky jimmy- he is so-so Jimbo – Carry on!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 19:57:02 GMT -5
Monmouth, Rider, SPU, Canisius, Quinny and even FF now have lost as much as we did...and Marist lost Hart which might as well be the same thing too.
Almost every team is in the same boat as Siena relying on frosh or unproven guys who didn't play much before. Monmouth lost 5 of their top 7 guys...and their 1 returning double digit scorer just had a major knee injury.
I'm hesitant to be optimistic too given this past year but, the fact is, the door is wide open.
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Post by goldsaint17 on May 1, 2017 20:07:43 GMT -5
I have no problem with you guys being positive- the reality is nobody in conference lost as much as Siena- we have 1 player on entire roster that has avg more than 4 PPG at D1 level- the incoming recruits are for most part unheralded group , lightly recruited or not recruited at all by other D1 programs. Having a bunch of inexperienced guards is not a recipe for success in MAAC- add in a unproven front court-- Having said all that, I think Jimmy will have team playing hard and competing. He will pull off a few surprises. Lose to top teams in MAAC ( again for most part) and lose to Vermont and Albany again ( for most part) But wouldn’t be surprised to see Siena win 10 to 14 games- after all he isn’t stinky jimmy- he is so-so Jimbo – Carry on!!! Most years, I would be keeping my expectations very low considering how much we've lost. However, I'm pretty optimistic for the upcoming season given how down the MAAC will be. While the team is full of question marks other than Nico, I won't judge the returnees based on points per game alone. Khalil, Shivers, and Friday all showed signs of promise to be at worst rotation-level players. Also, getting guys with few/no offers isn't uncommon in the MAAC. AJ English, Shane Richards, Justin Robinson each had few to no offers. Not saying any of these incoming freshmen will be MAAC players of the year, but they all look like they could be very nice additions. Prince is a very good mid-major recruit, and would have went significantly higher if he had waited to sign. I've heard nothing but good things about Penn, sounds like he should be able to run the show from day 1 and make plays for us. He had interest from a lot of good programs, probably would have picked up more offers if he had finished his season at prep school. Horn is at worst a good shooter off the bench (which makes him a serviceable MAAC player) and at best a scoring guard who can score at all 3 levels while getting his teammates involved. Camper is a question mark coming from a low level but if nothing else is an athletic wing who can provide some defense. I think we'll get a bye and crack .500 overall, setting us up for a CBI/CIT run if we can't put some magic together at the TUC.
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ltf
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Post by ltf on May 1, 2017 20:39:50 GMT -5
The discussions seem to take everyone into consideration, good or bad, but there is little or no discussion of Heurter. Does he fit in anywhere?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 20:47:48 GMT -5
The discussions seem to take everyone into consideration, good or bad, but there is little or no discussion of Heurter. Does he fit in anywhere? Yes, if Fisher never plays again and Camper is left out of the rotation. He would need to secure the backup PF role and play it like a Colin Stewart.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on May 2, 2017 0:18:40 GMT -5
The discussions seem to take everyone into consideration, good or bad, but there is little or no discussion of Heurter. Does he fit in anywhere? Yes, if Fisher never plays again and Camper is left out of the rotation. He would need to secure the backup PF role and play it like a Colin Stewart. What's that famous line the guy says in the movie Taken??
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on May 2, 2017 10:14:29 GMT -5
Yes, if Fisher never plays again and Camper is left out of the rotation. He would need to secure the backup PF role and play it like a Colin Stewart. What's that famous line the guy says in the movie Taken?? "Good luck" Edited: I should have said: "good luck" but using an Albanian accent. I'm from Guilderland so I don't have a true Albanian accent.
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