|
Post by marshotel on Feb 14, 2017 7:13:34 GMT -5
I'll bump this thread up so we can talk about JP getting fired in multiple threads. . I'll oblige. When you have 5,000 show up when the program used to fill 9k (and averages 7k) and the game showcases the top p rogram with second place still up for grabs, your program is under .500 after four seasons (this year and in total) your team allows a player another career high of 40 points and the game is a blowout something is wrong, don't you think? Absolutely agree that something is wrong. The program as a whole and specifically the hiring process for head coaches needs a major overhaul.
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,022
Dislikes:
|
Post by gorvy on Feb 14, 2017 7:53:25 GMT -5
And perhaps more importantly the extension process which is an epic fail.
|
|
|
Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Feb 14, 2017 9:50:24 GMT -5
As hard as it is to say right now, I say we can't give up on Jimmy nor this team right now.
Have to support them through the end of this season.
I still believe they have the talent right now today to win the MAAC Tournament, if only they just realize the best way to do that is to loosen up the reigns on that talent and let them be free.
Trust them more. Control less.
It's not working the other way so why not try this way?
If played the right way for 40 minutes and not 25 minutes, I still think they can do it. Win the Tournament.
That Monmouth team has not nor will not shoot like that again this season.
Just have to keep working. Beat them at their own game.
Pick your poison. Let Robinson attack all night long but don't give up the threes.
Until junk time came, Marquis had played equal or better than Robinson.
I haven't seen the replay on television yet, but my gut tells me from what I remember seeing at the game, that I think this team again stopped playing up tempo after 5 minutes into the second half.
I have been saying all season long that this team nor it's very predictable offensive scheme is a very consistently good half court team.
They let the shot clock run down on numerous occasions where sometimes they convert and many times they don't. They give up shooting in rythm when they give up shooting on the many open looks or wide open lanes to drive that they may have early on in the shot clock.
Within reason, you need all five guys to have the green light to shoot or drive (to be a triple threat) if they are open to shoot or drive, regardless of when it is in the shot clock.
Playing 4 vs. 5 or even 3 vs. 5 offensively as we so many times do makes us so predictable and below average offensively.
And here is another thing they need to do with their height and low post talent advantage, especially if they are inconsistent perimeter shooters; they then need to be relentless on the offensive boards.
If they shoot it when they are open without hesitation, regardless of the outcome, it will open up better looks on future possessions. Guaranteed.
Last night in the second half, they stopped attacking early in the shot clock.
Even Marquis, once he got to 28 points, started backing off. I saw him pass up a number of open looks and driving labes after he got to the 28 point mark, as if to say, ok, I don't want to be too selfish so let's give others a chance to score.
That's not playing to win.
Nico stopped attacking. Nico is at his best when he has a good mix of both attacking and shooting out on the perimeter. When he attacks without hesitation he breaks down the defense. When he doesn't he becomes more of an average player and shooter.
Brett gave up so many open looks. What is up with him, I do not know? He rarely shows emotion these days which leads me to ask whether he has mentally checked out on this team? Hope not? If your reading this Brett, we need you to keep looking for your shot regardless of the result of your last shot. Let it all hang out there at this point. Both physically and mentally.
Lavon was a complete non factor offensively. Made a nice low post move early and some nice passes out of the low post but did not see him even attempt a single mid range shot or three when facing the hoop.
Javion was the only other consistent offensive threat. Steady. Doing awesome at the as of late. That could be huge going into this final 3 (hopefully longer) weeks of your career.
And Richards as an offensive threat since he has gotten back has completely disappeared.
As a freshmen, that one is 100%, completely on coach. Coach treats him like he is in biddy basketball, happy and content to just let him run around for a bit on game night.
He is by far at his best when he is in the mindset to score, and when he is not playing like that, just getting a run in, he hurts the team when he is out there.
When they came back at the end of the first half and led the game early into the second half, it was through up tempo play.
If they are going to beat Monmouth, they have to do it with beating them at their own game, with guys like Marquis and Nico, and Lavon and Richards attacking in the open court and Brett and Javion coming up as trailers or filling lanes and everyone attacking the offensive boards.
Stop controlling. Stop slowing them down. Give them rest when needed.
And then...
Just let them play coach, and trust me (trust them), all will be good.
|
|
|
Post by greengold4ever on Feb 14, 2017 10:09:19 GMT -5
As hard as it is to say right now, I say we can't give up on Jimmy nor this team right now. Have to support them through the end of this season. I still believe they have the talent right now today to win the MAAC Tournament, if only they just realize the best way to do that is to loosen up the reigns on that talent and let them be free. Trust them more. Control less. It's not working the other way so why not try this way? If played the right way for 40 minutes and not 25 minutes, I still think they can do it. Win the Tournament. That Monmouth team has not nor will not shoot like that again this season. Just have to keep working. Beat them at their own game. Pick your poison. Let Robinson attack all night long but don't give up the threes. Until junk time came, Marquis had played equal or better than Robinson. I haven't seen the replay on television yet, but my gut tells me from what I remember seeing at the game, that I think this team again stopped playing up tempo after 5 minutes into the second half. I have been saying all season long that this team nor it's very predictable offensive scheme is a very consistently good half court team. They let the shot clock run down on numerous occasions where sometimes they convert and many times they don't. They give up shooting in rythm when they give up shooting on the many open looks or wide open lanes to drive that they may have early on in the shot clock. Within reason, you need all five guys to have the green light to shoot or drive (to be a triple threat) if they are open to shoot or drive, regardless of when it is in the shot clock. Playing 4 vs. 5 or even 3 vs. 5 offensively as we so many times do makes us so predictable and below average offensively. And here is another thing they need to do with their height and low post talent advantage, especially if they are inconsistent perimeter shooters; they then need to be relentless on the offensive boards. If they shoot it when they are open without hesitation, regardless of the outcome, it will open up better looks on future possessions. Guaranteed. Last night in the second half, they stopped attacking early in the shot clock. Even Marquis, once he got to 28 points, started backing off. I saw him pass up a number of open looks and driving labes after he got to the 28 point mark, as if to say, ok, I don't want to be too selfish so let's give others a chance to score. That's not playing to win. Nico stopped attacking. Nico is at his best when he has a good mix of both attacking and shooting out on the perimeter. When he attacks without hesitation he breaks down the defense. When he doesn't he becomes more of an average player and shooter. Brett gave up so many open looks. What is up with him, I do not know? He rarely shows emotion these days which leads me to ask whether he has mentally checked out on this team? Hope not? If your reading this Brett, we need you to keep looking for your shot regardless of the result of your last shot. Let it all hang out there at this point. Both physically and mentally. Lavon was a complete non factor offensively. Made a nice low post move early and some nice passes out of the low post but did not see him even attempt a single mid range shot or three when facing the hoop. Javion was the only other consistent offensive threat. Steady. Doing awesome at the as of late. That could be huge going into this final 3 (hopefully longer) weeks of your career. And Richards as an offensive threat since he has gotten back has completely disappeared. As a freshmen, that one is 100%, completely on coach. Coach treats him like he is in biddy basketball, happy and content to just let him run around for a bit on game night. He is by far at his best when he is in the mindset to score, and when he is not playing like that, just getting a run in, he hurts the team when he is out there. When they came back at the end of the first half and led the game early into the second half, it was through up tempo play. If they are going to beat Monmouth, they have to do it with beating them at their own game, with guys like Marquis and Nico, and Lavon and Richards attacking in the open court and Brett and Javion coming up as trailers or filling lanes and everyone attacking the offensive boards. Stop controlling. Stop slowing them down. Give them rest when needed. And then... Just let them play coach, and trust me (trust them), all will be good. none of this matters, IF they can't figure out how to STOP teams defensively................the fact that they are so inconsistent in that area will not allow them to win games more consistently.........it has been a combination of facing better athletes and not an appropriate scheme to try to slow them down............as a whole we are so poor in the help defense aspect as well, the players are obviously accountable for lapses of defensive assignments, but they also need to be put in the best possible position to succeed........too many times against the top half of the league we go on offensive runs only to be neutralized because we can't make stops, and inevitably it might end up trading our 2pts for their 3...........you get the feeling that Patsos/staff have no idea what defense the team should be playing.......he has had this core group for 4 yrs, certainly he can add wrinkles, but there should not be any guess work as to what the identity/style of this team is at this point .....
|
|
saints22
Team Captain
Posts: 2,224
Dislikes:
|
Post by saints22 on Feb 14, 2017 12:47:43 GMT -5
As hard as it is to say right now, I say we can't give up on Jimmy nor this team right now. Have to support them through the end of this season. I still believe they have the talent right now today to win the MAAC Tournament, if only they just realize the best way to do that is to loosen up the reigns on that talent and let them be free. Trust them more. Control less. It's not working the other way so why not try this way? If played the right way for 40 minutes and not 25 minutes, I still think they can do it. Win the Tournament. That Monmouth team has not nor will not shoot like that again this season. Just have to keep working. Beat them at their own game. Pick your poison. Let Robinson attack all night long but don't give up the threes. Until junk time came, Marquis had played equal or better than Robinson. I haven't seen the replay on television yet, but my gut tells me from what I remember seeing at the game, that I think this team again stopped playing up tempo after 5 minutes into the second half. I have been saying all season long that this team nor it's very predictable offensive scheme is a very consistently good half court team. They let the shot clock run down on numerous occasions where sometimes they convert and many times they don't. They give up shooting in rythm when they give up shooting on the many open looks or wide open lanes to drive that they may have early on in the shot clock. Within reason, you need all five guys to have the green light to shoot or drive (to be a triple threat) if they are open to shoot or drive, regardless of when it is in the shot clock. Playing 4 vs. 5 or even 3 vs. 5 offensively as we so many times do makes us so predictable and below average offensively. And here is another thing they need to do with their height and low post talent advantage, especially if they are inconsistent perimeter shooters; they then need to be relentless on the offensive boards. If they shoot it when they are open without hesitation, regardless of the outcome, it will open up better looks on future possessions. Guaranteed. Last night in the second half, they stopped attacking early in the shot clock. Even Marquis, once he got to 28 points, started backing off. I saw him pass up a number of open looks and driving labes after he got to the 28 point mark, as if to say, ok, I don't want to be too selfish so let's give others a chance to score. That's not playing to win. Nico stopped attacking. Nico is at his best when he has a good mix of both attacking and shooting out on the perimeter. When he attacks without hesitation he breaks down the defense. When he doesn't he becomes more of an average player and shooter. Brett gave up so many open looks. What is up with him, I do not know? He rarely shows emotion these days which leads me to ask whether he has mentally checked out on this team? Hope not? If your reading this Brett, we need you to keep looking for your shot regardless of the result of your last shot. Let it all hang out there at this point. Both physically and mentally. Lavon was a complete non factor offensively. Made a nice low post move early and some nice passes out of the low post but did not see him even attempt a single mid range shot or three when facing the hoop. Javion was the only other consistent offensive threat. Steady. Doing awesome at the as of late. That could be huge going into this final 3 (hopefully longer) weeks of your career. And Richards as an offensive threat since he has gotten back has completely disappeared. As a freshmen, that one is 100%, completely on coach. Coach treats him like he is in biddy basketball, happy and content to just let him run around for a bit on game night. He is by far at his best when he is in the mindset to score, and when he is not playing like that, just getting a run in, he hurts the team when he is out there. When they came back at the end of the first half and led the game early into the second half, it was through up tempo play. If they are going to beat Monmouth, they have to do it with beating them at their own game, with guys like Marquis and Nico, and Lavon and Richards attacking in the open court and Brett and Javion coming up as trailers or filling lanes and everyone attacking the offensive boards. Stop controlling. Stop slowing them down. Give them rest when needed. And then... Just let them play coach, and trust me (trust them), all will be good. Well, you finally did it. I didn't know if it was possible, but you did it. You made it through an entire post.....and an extremely long one at that.....without one once mentioning the word "confidence". Well done.
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,022
Dislikes:
|
Post by gorvy on Feb 14, 2017 13:11:06 GMT -5
The program needs to get better just so saintsfanallyeaelong doesn't have to type so much. I'm worried his fingertips will come off.
|
|
hankla
Team Captain
Posts: 1,664
Dislikes:
|
Post by hankla on Feb 14, 2017 13:50:15 GMT -5
. I'll oblige. When you have 5,000 show up when the program used to fill 9k (and averages 7k) and the game showcases the top p rogram with second place still up for grabs, your program is under .500 after four seasons (this year and in total) your team allows a player another career high of 40 points and the game is a blowout something is wrong, don't you think? Absolutely agree that something is wrong. The program as a whole and specifically the hiring process for head coaches needs a major overhaul. If you are talking about last night's attendance do you really believe a much bigger crowd was possible given the team's record , the night ((MONDAY) of the game, the last few days of snow and most importantly live television coverage?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 13:53:12 GMT -5
The program needs to get better just so saintsfanallyeaelong doesn't have to type so much. I'm worried his fingertips will come off. I got married and divorced like 10 times while reading that.
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,702
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Feb 14, 2017 13:58:39 GMT -5
As hard as it is to say right now, I say we can't give up on Jimmy nor this team right now. Have to support them through the end of this season. I still believe they have the talent right now today to win the MAAC Tournament, if only they just realize the best way to do that is to loosen up the reigns on that talent and let them be free. Trust them more. Control less. It's not working the other way so why not try this way? If played the right way for 40 minutes and not 25 minutes, I still think they can do it. Win the Tournament. That Monmouth team has not nor will not shoot like that again this season. Just have to keep working. Beat them at their own game. Pick your poison. Let Robinson attack all night long but don't give up the threes. Until junk time came, Marquis had played equal or better than Robinson. I haven't seen the replay on television yet, but my gut tells me from what I remember seeing at the game, that I think this team again stopped playing up tempo after 5 minutes into the second half. I have been saying all season long that this team nor it's very predictable offensive scheme is a very consistently good half court team. They let the shot clock run down on numerous occasions where sometimes they convert and many times they don't. They give up shooting in rythm when they give up shooting on the many open looks or wide open lanes to drive that they may have early on in the shot clock. Within reason, you need all five guys to have the green light to shoot or drive (to be a triple threat) if they are open to shoot or drive, regardless of when it is in the shot clock. Playing 4 vs. 5 or even 3 vs. 5 offensively as we so many times do makes us so predictable and below average offensively. And here is another thing they need to do with their height and low post talent advantage, especially if they are inconsistent perimeter shooters; they then need to be relentless on the offensive boards. If they shoot it when they are open without hesitation, regardless of the outcome, it will open up better looks on future possessions. Guaranteed. Last night in the second half, they stopped attacking early in the shot clock. Even Marquis, once he got to 28 points, started backing off. I saw him pass up a number of open looks and driving labes after he got to the 28 point mark, as if to say, ok, I don't want to be too selfish so let's give others a chance to score. That's not playing to win. Nico stopped attacking. Nico is at his best when he has a good mix of both attacking and shooting out on the perimeter. When he attacks without hesitation he breaks down the defense. When he doesn't he becomes more of an average player and shooter. Brett gave up so many open looks. What is up with him, I do not know? He rarely shows emotion these days which leads me to ask whether he has mentally checked out on this team? Hope not? If your reading this Brett, we need you to keep looking for your shot regardless of the result of your last shot. Let it all hang out there at this point. Both physically and mentally. Lavon was a complete non factor offensively. Made a nice low post move early and some nice passes out of the low post but did not see him even attempt a single mid range shot or three when facing the hoop. Javion was the only other consistent offensive threat. Steady. Doing awesome at the as of late. That could be huge going into this final 3 (hopefully longer) weeks of your career. And Richards as an offensive threat since he has gotten back has completely disappeared. As a freshmen, that one is 100%, completely on coach. Coach treats him like he is in biddy basketball, happy and content to just let him run around for a bit on game night. He is by far at his best when he is in the mindset to score, and when he is not playing like that, just getting a run in, he hurts the team when he is out there. When they came back at the end of the first half and led the game early into the second half, it was through up tempo play. If they are going to beat Monmouth, they have to do it with beating them at their own game, with guys like Marquis and Nico, and Lavon and Richards attacking in the open court and Brett and Javion coming up as trailers or filling lanes and everyone attacking the offensive boards. Stop controlling. Stop slowing them down. Give them rest when needed. And then... Just let them play coach, and trust me (trust them), all will be good. As far as MW not looking to score look no further than the coach he deliberately did that to work the ball into Lavon and Brett to look for a few mismatches . MW took one shot in 9 minutes of play. Brilliant move coach! MW was in a tear so let's stop him from scoring. Patsos did more to stop Wright than Monmouth. To add insult to injury it took him 9 min to figure out it wasn't working.
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,529
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Feb 14, 2017 17:51:44 GMT -5
Absolutely agree that something is wrong. The program as a whole and specifically the hiring process for head coaches needs a major overhaul. If you are talking about last night's attendance do you really believe a much bigger crowd was possible given the team's record , the night ((MONDAY) of the game, the last few days of snow and most importantly live television coverage? Gorvy has proof that any home game that's televised draws just as well as a game that's free to watch at home in a nice warm house and avoiding freezing temperatures 😜
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,529
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Feb 14, 2017 17:53:10 GMT -5
As hard as it is to say right now, I say we can't give up on Jimmy nor this team right now. Have to support them through the end of this season. I still believe they have the talent right now today to win the MAAC Tournament, if only they just realize the best way to do that is to loosen up the reigns on that talent and let them be free. Trust them more. Control less. It's not working the other way so why not try this way? If played the right way for 40 minutes and not 25 minutes, I still think they can do it. Win the Tournament. That Monmouth team has not nor will not shoot like that again this season. Just have to keep working. Beat them at their own game. Pick your poison. Let Robinson attack all night long but don't give up the threes. Until junk time came, Marquis had played equal or better than Robinson. I haven't seen the replay on television yet, but my gut tells me from what I remember seeing at the game, that I think this team again stopped playing up tempo after 5 minutes into the second half. I have been saying all season long that this team nor it's very predictable offensive scheme is a very consistently good half court team. They let the shot clock run down on numerous occasions where sometimes they convert and many times they don't. They give up shooting in rythm when they give up shooting on the many open looks or wide open lanes to drive that they may have early on in the shot clock. Within reason, you need all five guys to have the green light to shoot or drive (to be a triple threat) if they are open to shoot or drive, regardless of when it is in the shot clock. Playing 4 vs. 5 or even 3 vs. 5 offensively as we so many times do makes us so predictable and below average offensively. And here is another thing they need to do with their height and low post talent advantage, especially if they are inconsistent perimeter shooters; they then need to be relentless on the offensive boards. If they shoot it when they are open without hesitation, regardless of the outcome, it will open up better looks on future possessions. Guaranteed. Last night in the second half, they stopped attacking early in the shot clock. Even Marquis, once he got to 28 points, started backing off. I saw him pass up a number of open looks and driving labes after he got to the 28 point mark, as if to say, ok, I don't want to be too selfish so let's give others a chance to score. That's not playing to win. Nico stopped attacking. Nico is at his best when he has a good mix of both attacking and shooting out on the perimeter. When he attacks without hesitation he breaks down the defense. When he doesn't he becomes more of an average player and shooter. Brett gave up so many open looks. What is up with him, I do not know? He rarely shows emotion these days which leads me to ask whether he has mentally checked out on this team? Hope not? If your reading this Brett, we need you to keep looking for your shot regardless of the result of your last shot. Let it all hang out there at this point. Both physically and mentally. Lavon was a complete non factor offensively. Made a nice low post move early and some nice passes out of the low post but did not see him even attempt a single mid range shot or three when facing the hoop. Javion was the only other consistent offensive threat. Steady. Doing awesome at the as of late. That could be huge going into this final 3 (hopefully longer) weeks of your career. And Richards as an offensive threat since he has gotten back has completely disappeared. As a freshmen, that one is 100%, completely on coach. Coach treats him like he is in biddy basketball, happy and content to just let him run around for a bit on game night. He is by far at his best when he is in the mindset to score, and when he is not playing like that, just getting a run in, he hurts the team when he is out there. When they came back at the end of the first half and led the game early into the second half, it was through up tempo play. If they are going to beat Monmouth, they have to do it with beating them at their own game, with guys like Marquis and Nico, and Lavon and Richards attacking in the open court and Brett and Javion coming up as trailers or filling lanes and everyone attacking the offensive boards. Stop controlling. Stop slowing them down. Give them rest when needed. And then... Just let them play coach, and trust me (trust them), all will be good. As far as MW not looking to score look no further than the coach he deliberately did that to work the ball into Lavon and Brett to look for a few mismatches . MW took one shot in 9 minutes of play. Brilliant move coach! MW was in a tear so let's stop him from scoring. Patsos did more to stop Wright than Monmouth. To add insult to injury it took him 9 min to figure out it wasn't working. Wait, so now it's JPs fault because he didn't let MW shoot 30 times instead of 20?
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,702
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Feb 14, 2017 19:10:21 GMT -5
I'm not gonna quote that entire mess above again...
The answer is YES!
Let me try and explain this so even you can follow it;
Wrights shooting 58% from the floor and about the same from three, he's on pace to get well over 40. No one else is scoring we only end up with one other player in double figures. Monmouth is on pace for a 100 PT game. We need points and JP pulls the ball from a kid for over NINE MINUTES to see if we can get the ball to Brett and Long. That's not how you involve your teammates and get them in the flow. To add insult to injury it takes JP 9 minutes to figure out it ain't workin' (pure coaching genius) and you can't follow that...
|
|
notomo
Sophomore
Posts: 673
Dislikes:
|
Post by notomo on Feb 14, 2017 19:36:10 GMT -5
Not writing this to anyone in particular. MW was having an insane game true but no way was he was going to beat Monmouth single handed. Other guys needed to step up. When only half of the big four is producing, saints are not going to get it done. In any event they would not win a shoot-out against a powerful offensive force like Monmouth without defensive stops. Just didn't do that either.The skill and athleticism gap between the two teams last nite was jaw dropping. How has this happened?
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,702
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Feb 14, 2017 19:41:36 GMT -5
Not writing this to anyone in particular. MW was having an insane game true but no way was he was going to beat Monmouth single handed. Other guys needed to step up. When only half of the big four is producing, saints are not going to get it done. In any event they would not win a shoot-out against a powerful offensive force like Monmouth without defensive stops. Just didn't do that either.The skill and athleticism gap between the two teams last nite was jaw dropping. How has this happened? I agree 100%. That's not what I'm saying at all. I have a problem with all or nothing approach. You absolutely need to get others involved and of course Wright wasn't doing it by himself. I have an issue with not working the other players in within the flow of the game. You don't lock out your hot hand for a 1/4 of the game in one stretch and try to get 2 players to step up. You need to get them into the flow of the game while Wright is scoring. You run a couple of things to try and get a few good looks for players like Brett & Lavon, you don't do it for 9 minutes straight! JP has no clue as to what he's doing and it shows. You need to play flawless and coach flawless to beat a team like Monmouth, we got neither last night. We play best when we're playing solid D and everyone is involved. We are not gonna beat this team in a run it up scoring contest.
|
|
|
Post by Tony on Feb 14, 2017 20:18:34 GMT -5
Quis was having a great game last night- but when Monmouth shoots like that, sorry we are not beating them. The talent gap between the two teams is glaring. Did any of you guys play hoop ? Always difficult to guard bigger faster players. Or in Robinson case just faster players. After Monmouth hit a few deep 3’s, Siena players bit on the pump fake and Monmouth player would fly by breaking down defense. The Siena players didn’t have athletic ability to recover. If grit and determination was all that mattered several D2 or D3 teams would beat Duke or Kentucky- many of these D2 schools have guys that shoot every bit as good as Kentucky or Carolina players. Big difference in size and athletic ability. If you take off your green and gold glasses- other than Quis and Nico we have a team full of average of below average speed wise players. It didn’t matter what defense Siena played last night ( and for the record Jimmy tried them all) Siena doesn’t have athletic ability to stop Monmouth, nor the shooting or offensive ability to score with them. Sorry that’s the cold hard reality – upsets can and do happen, but Monmouth is a nightmare match up for this Siena team as the results from last 3 games between two teams show
|
|