Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 10:12:57 GMT -5
The whole thing comes down to the NCAA allowing us to be over the roster limit for a year since JO's scholly is spoken for. It's happened before, and this situation is obviously very unique. Personally, I think we only have a 25% of seeing him this season, so I don't like our chances. Wouldn't his playing eligibility and a petition for an additional scholarship be 2 entirely different things?
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Oct 13, 2015 10:28:32 GMT -5
in reality the scholarship to Gottfried this year means very little now. JO was coming back regardless (obvious since he is at the school and paying in some sort of fashion) and him being eligible or not eligible this season has very little to do w/ if he got a scholly back from Siena. One would assume he will get one for next year (and the year after if he has to red-shirt) but Cams scholarship for this season really had made no difference to where JO is now (outside of some student loans more then likely that he may not have had otherwise-- but thats on him)
Now if you want to argue Patsos maybe should have been out hunting for a late pick-up that is another story.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 10:30:08 GMT -5
The assumption that JO has accepted "financial aid" that would render him ineligible is, at this time, absurd. Federal assistance is widely referred to as "financial aid" and would be completely on the up-and-up. Furthermore, someone who recently lost a parent (and their income) would likely be eligible to receive a favorable amount of (legal) financial aid assuming a FAFSA was correctly filled out. I hope you are correct but I'm not quite ready to discount the absurdity.
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bison137
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Post by bison137 on Oct 13, 2015 11:46:15 GMT -5
The assumption that JO has accepted "financial aid" that would render him ineligible is, at this time, absurd. Federal assistance is widely referred to as "financial aid" and would be completely on the up-and-up. Furthermore, someone who recently lost a parent (and their income) would likely be eligible to receive a favorable amount of (legal) financial aid assuming a FAFSA was correctly filled out. I hope you are correct but I'm not quite ready to discount the absurdity. I haven't really been following this, but I do know that virtually any aid that a recruited player receives makes him a "counter". That includes need-based aid based on a FAFSA and it includes academic scholarships, among other things.
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Oct 13, 2015 12:18:37 GMT -5
from my understanding anything he receives needs to be independent of the school... like student loans, pell grants (do they even exist anymore) and your own money.... basically anything any other kid would have a chance to be eligible for. Any aid that is school based, (academic scholarships, other sports scholarship, presidents scholarships) he would count.... which means they really can't help him at all in that regard, besides maybe the FA office helping get through the fed and state paperwork. it certainly is not a clean situation, so we shall see how this plays out in the next few days.
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Post by Tony on Oct 13, 2015 15:43:13 GMT -5
from my understanding anything he receives needs to be independent of the school... like student loans, pell grants (do they even exist anymore) and your own money.... basically anything any other kid would have a chance to be eligible for. Any aid that is school based, (academic scholarships, other sports scholarship, presidents scholarships) he would count.... which means they really can't help him at all in that regard, besides maybe the FA office helping get through the fed and state paperwork. it certainly is not a clean situation, so we shall see how this plays out in the next few days. 95 hit the nail on the head-- if any of aid came thru Siena the odds of us Seeing JO this year are 5% or less - the NCAA is not going to let Siena have 14 scholarship kids. If we had a scholarship available I feel JO would have been allowed to play. Lets see how it pans out, one never knows on NCAA. But I sure hope Cam can play--)
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Oct 13, 2015 15:56:28 GMT -5
I have to believe Siena knows the rules. So I find it hard to believe they'd apply for a waiver (or what ever we want to call it) that would allow JO the ability to play this season (edited:) if they didn't honesty believe they had a chance). I realize there's possible two separate actions the NCAA can weigh in on, but I have to believe Siena believes they have a case otherwise why go through the motions if you know you don't have a chance?
With that said, I again assume the financial aid issue was already looked at by Siena and they think they meet the NCAA requirements (they may be trying to test the rules possibly using a new (not previously won) approach.
I just have to think they believe they have a shot, otherwise why bother.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Oct 13, 2015 18:00:55 GMT -5
The whole thing comes down to the NCAA allowing us to be over the roster limit for a year since JO's scholly is spoken for. It's happened before, and this situation is obviously very unique. Personally, I think we only have a 25% of seeing him this season, so I don't like our chances. Wouldn't his playing eligibility and a petition for an additional scholarship be 2 entirely different things? Let's just say, if we had an open scholarship, I'd bump the chances of him being eligible to 50%. The NCAA doesn't like letting teams have 14 scholarship players (realistically)on their roster. I think having all 13 filled, makes it easier for the NCAA to deny his waiver.
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Post by greenblood on Oct 13, 2015 18:16:40 GMT -5
I agree with HJ here. Further, the why bother IMHO IS BECAUSE the NCAA decision can then be blamed for him not playing this year, not the lack of an available scholarship that was at best hopefully not squandered. I feel bad for the kids...what if he can play and someone has to go to make it happen??
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Post by Tony on Oct 13, 2015 18:26:02 GMT -5
I agree with HJ here. Further, the why bother IMHO IS BECAUSE the NCAA decision can then be blamed for him not playing this year, not the lack of an available scholarship that was at best hopefully not squandered. I feel bad for the kids...what if he can play and someone has to go to make it happen?? That's exactly right- much easier to blame JO not playing on NCAA-- than saying I gave a walk on a scholarship in May In Jimmy's defense he had no idea JO was coming back- on negative side that's why you don't give free rides to walk ons in MAY- it can come back to burn you
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Oct 13, 2015 18:31:20 GMT -5
Student loans are considered financial aid gentlemen. If JO is financing this year of college on his own with loans, then he's a non-recruited walk-on transfer who won't count against the scholarship limit. If that's the case, then the only remaining issue is whether he can get a waiver of the year in residence. I'm pretty confident that none of his aid came from Siena, otherwise the school would know full well his waiver would be dead in the water before filing it.
Ordinarily I would say JO has zero chance of playing this season. However, the fact that he's returning to his old school without ever playing for the new one is an interesting wrinkle that could change the outcome.
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Post by siena12077 on Oct 13, 2015 18:31:25 GMT -5
I agree with HJ here. Further, the why bother IMHO IS BECAUSE the NCAA decision can then be blamed for him not playing this year, not the lack of an available scholarship that was at best hopefully not squandered. I feel bad for the kids...what if he can play and someone has to go to make it happen?? As a coach you can't go out of your way to allow him a scholarship this year. He walked out on his teammates and should have to face some repercussions for his actions. He should have to take the verdict that the ncaa hands him. If he was ever granted the ability to play this year and Patsos took back a scholly or ran some one off, myself and I'm positive others would completely refrain from supporting his program. I also think it's a moot point because JO won't be granted eligibility nor should any coach do that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 18:57:41 GMT -5
Student loans are considered financial aid gentlemen. If JO is financing this year of college on his own with loans, then he's a non-recruited walk-on transfer who won't count against the scholarship limit. If that's the case, then the only remaining issue is whether he can get a waiver of the year in residence. I'm pretty confident that none of his aid came from Siena, otherwise the school would know full well his waiver would be dead in the water before filing it. Ordinarily I would say JO has zero chance of playing this season. However, the fact that he's returning to his old school without ever playing for the new one is an interesting wrinkle that could change the outcome. Student loans are not financial aid. They are pure and simple loans that must be paid back with interest accrued. You apply for financial aid and the aid, in the form of grants, scholarships, work study, etc., are called out - you are expected to come up with the balance in either loans, savings or a combination of both. Financial aid does not have to be paid back - hence the term "aid"!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 19:13:56 GMT -5
Imoh Silas has a minor back strain. Even though it's a minor thing, it gets me scared about the possibility of being without both he AND JO.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Oct 13, 2015 23:50:49 GMT -5
Student loans are considered financial aid gentlemen. If JO is financing this year of college on his own with loans, then he's a non-recruited walk-on transfer who won't count against the scholarship limit. If that's the case, then the only remaining issue is whether he can get a waiver of the year in residence. I'm pretty confident that none of his aid came from Siena, otherwise the school would know full well his waiver would be dead in the water before filing it. Ordinarily I would say JO has zero chance of playing this season. However, the fact that he's returning to his old school without ever playing for the new one is an interesting wrinkle that could change the outcome. Student loans are not financial aid. They are pure and simple loans that must be paid back with interest accrued. You apply for financial aid and the aid, in the form of grants, scholarships, work study, etc., are called out - you are expected to come up with the balance in either loans, savings or a combination of both. Financial aid does not have to be paid back - hence the term "aid"! Incorrect. As someone who financed most of Siena and all of law school with student loans, I can assure you that was what my financial aid package consisted of and it was referred to as such. When you are given any money, it's called financial aid - the fact that you have to pay it back doesn't change that designation. Grants and scholarships are the types of financial aid you don't pay back. But it's all under the same umbrella of terminology.
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