Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 12:15:36 GMT -5
I think he has to prepare himself for the worst case scenario. And he is right BCS schools play with different rules he's a lock to be playing if this was a Big 10 or ACC school. For MP forget the scholarship thing. I know you guys want to nail Jimmy for Cam (and I agree it was stupid) but the NCAA and not the scholarship will determine if Javion can play this year. What pray tell is your assessment about the NCAA counter rule for D1 hoop? What is your singular stream of knowledge based on? Give us references, PLEASE. Share with us how JO can receive ANY financial aid from Siena and not be considered a "counter"! The world awaits your answer. Stop trying to pull in other issues to attack discussions that those issues HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH!
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Sept 16, 2015 12:45:33 GMT -5
1st it was he didn't take classes, then it was he didn't practice...the stories keep changing from the grapevine. Patsos says a waiver is required which means he's ineligible now. So, as it stands, he's considered a transfer. Now, they may be required to submit something just for the fact that he took classes...but they say he practiced. So now the only chance is if the amount he practiced and participated is not significant enough to consider him a transfer. If they rule he's considered a transfer after all that research and he's not granted an exception, then I would think the only basis is hardship...which doesn't exist anymore due to schools taking advantage. I doubt the NCAA would make an exception on that grounds. At least, that's my understanding based on what rules people have posted. So either he was over the 14 days ...or he wasn't. * 14.5.5.1 General Rule. A transfer student from a four-year institution shall not be eligible for intercollegiate competition at a member institution until the student has fulfilled a residence requirement of one full year (two full semesters or three full quarters) at the certifying institution. * 14.5.5.2.8 Return to Original Institution Without Participation or With Minimal Participation EXCEPTION. The student transfers to a second four-year collegiate institution, does not compete at the second institution and does not engage in other countable athletically related activities in the involved sport at the second institution beyond a 14-consecutive-day period and returns to the original institution. The 14-consecutive-day period begins with the date on which the student-athlete first engages in any countable athletically related activity (see Bylaw 17.02.1). A student may use this exception even if he or she has an unfulfilled residence requirement at the institution from which he or she is transferring. Hopefully Siena positioned this as he never missed a semester at Siena, therefore didn't withdraw, took summer classes at BU and worked out with the team which is a far cry from actual team practice therefore he is still part of the Siena program. Any other assertions are likely to result in the NCAA saying he can't play this year. Now of course that doesn't solve the extra 'ship issue...
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Sept 16, 2015 17:14:00 GMT -5
Based on the article (and common sense) it seems highly likely that he won't be playing next year and even if he is eligible we would be over the limit. Time to move on.
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Post by saintsandeagles on Sept 16, 2015 18:03:04 GMT -5
Based on the article (and common sense) it seems highly likely that he won't be playing next year and even if he is eligible we would be over the limit. Time to move on. Or we could wait and see what the NCAA decides in a couple of weeks.
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Sept 16, 2015 20:37:38 GMT -5
JO never suited up for BU... BU never even announced him on their website. It will come down to if the NCAA has a common sense factor. Had he played for them for a year and then wanted to come home (with the same circumstances) then I would totally agree he would have to sit out because they eliminated the hardship waiver. But this is truly a special circumstance returning to his original program without actually being part of the school that he transferred to. Tell that to the BU staff who put the time, energy and money to bring JO aboard and use a scholarship that most likely won't be filled at this late date.... it isn't all about how this impacts Siena or JO. BU can't get "whole" from this in the short term. And YES JO was part of school.. he was on campus, took classes paid for by BU, most likely ate food paid for by BU.... no idea what the NCAA will decide, but it is not as black and white as some want it to be. Also, i believe if a player was ever recruited to play a sport and given or offered a scholarship, any assistance given after the fact would fall under the scholarship realm. So unless JO has student loans acquired on his own and $$ to pay on his own, any assistance from the school (be it merit based, academic based etc) would count on the 13 scholarship limit in the NCAA's eyes. Very well stated. I would love to have JO back but it doesn't look good. If it does work out it will be a pleasant surprise.
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Post by diamonddog on Oct 6, 2015 17:14:29 GMT -5
So...It's October 6th. Practice has started. Any ideas?
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Oct 7, 2015 9:47:53 GMT -5
I'm very eager to hear the official word. I would not be surprised with either outcome allowed to play this season or not). I'm hoping that he can & will play but that's just my selfish request as a fan. If JO is able to get what he wants, that's good too.
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Post by diamonddog on Oct 8, 2015 8:45:49 GMT -5
According to Singelais on twitter...
"NCAA has yet to make a ruling on whether Siena F Javion Ogunyemi can play this season. NCAA has asked for more paperwork, per Jimmy Patsos."
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Post by diamonddog on Oct 12, 2015 15:21:04 GMT -5
According to CBS Sports, the ruling if JO can play this year should be made next week.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Oct 12, 2015 18:57:27 GMT -5
I still dont understand how he could possibly play... It would be great if he is allowed to play but the fact that another student athlete now has his scholarship makes this whole exercise a big waste of time.
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Post by MTS on Oct 13, 2015 0:08:08 GMT -5
I still dont understand how he could possibly play... It would be great if he is allowed to play but the fact that another student athlete now has his scholarship makes this whole exercise a big waste of time. Rob I don't think you intended to do this but the Cam thing (elephant in the room on this board) has little if ANYTHING to do with the NCAA ruling for or against JO. He's getting financial aid. I'm pretty sure it will come down to how many classes or practices under BU supervision he took part in. I can't help feel some on this board want to nail Patsos for giving Gottfried the scholarship (which again I will say was stupid to do) and if JO is forced to sit out they will claim not having the scholarship was the reason for it. I could be wrong but I don't think so. One has nothing to do with the other.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 5:38:41 GMT -5
I still dont understand how he could possibly play... It would be great if he is allowed to play but the fact that another student athlete now has his scholarship makes this whole exercise a big waste of time. Rob I don't think you intended to do this but the Cam thing (elephant in the room on this board) has little if ANYTHING to do with the NCAA ruling for or against JO. He's getting financial aid. I'm pretty sure it will come down to how many classes or practices under BU supervision he took part in. I can't help feel some on this board want to nail Patsos for giving Gottfried the scholarship (which again I will say was stupid to do) and if JO is forced to sit out they will claim not having the scholarship was the reason for it. I could be wrong but I don't think so. One has nothing to do with the other. MTS, you are ignoring the entire picture that pertains to JO and his ability to play this year. You correctly reiterated what has been reported by the local media - "He's getting financial aid." The term financial aid, in relation to college expenses, refers to money provided by the institution - grants, scholarships, campus employment. Family savings or student loans are not considered financial aid. If JO is receiving $1 or more FROM SIENA - i.e., an academic scholarship which many have suggested he would certainly qualify for, he, by NCAA rule, IS a COUNTER and we would have 14 COUNTERS - one over the NCAA limit of 13. If JO is taking out student loans to cover the entire cost of a year at Siena the term "financial aid" should not be being used and should be corrected. If JO's transfer status is decided favorably, i.e., he would not have to sit out the year, the next hurdle, IMO, becomes the issue of Siena exceeding the 13 counter/scholarship limit. That is a major hurdle. I'm guessing the NCAA reached a determination on the question of his involvement with BU's "team activities" and BU classes - that would be pretty much black and white. The reported NCAA request for more information could very well be - how many men's basketball scholarships are in place (i.e., 13 as we know it) and where are the finances coming from to cover the year for JO. If the ruling comes down that JO could have played right away had a scholarship been available, the "gift" of the 13th will explode once again with more rancor than we've seen to date. I would think Siena would just report that JO has to sit the year to avoid the criticism and not provide the details. Sitting for year because we don't have a scholarship for him will most likely cost him a year of eligibility, the same outcome if the transfer rules apply. I honestly hope I am wrong but given what has been reported, I can't see it going the way we all want. Here's a question for all to ponder and opine on: if a player currently on an athletic scholarship were to leave during or following the first semester, would his scholarship become available for the second semester? Stay tuned, the plot could get thicker! I along with others, do not want to hear that JO's having to sit is the reason IF we have a year less successful than anticipated. His immediate availability would be a huge plus but it would not be valid minus. Recruiting for his slot was still possible when he announced his plans to transfer......
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mjs72
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Post by mjs72 on Oct 13, 2015 6:45:15 GMT -5
Although I am not getting up my hopes on JO for this year, isn't it a reason for some optimism in that the NCAA requested additional info rather than just denying his application due to practice with and classes at BU?
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Oct 13, 2015 7:52:19 GMT -5
The assumption that JO has accepted "financial aid" that would render him ineligible is, at this time, absurd.
Federal assistance is widely referred to as "financial aid" and would be completely on the up-and-up. Furthermore, someone who recently lost a parent (and their income) would likely be eligible to receive a favorable amount of (legal) financial aid assuming a FAFSA was correctly filled out.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Oct 13, 2015 9:38:30 GMT -5
The whole thing comes down to the NCAA allowing us to be over the roster limit for a year since JO's scholly is spoken for. It's happened before, and this situation is obviously very unique.
Personally, I think we only have a 25% of seeing him this season, so I don't like our chances.
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