IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 8,973
Dislikes:
|
Post by IndianSaint on Apr 24, 2015 21:33:09 GMT -5
I provided my opinion in one of my numerous replays to this: I believe Fran "was allowed" because he needed bodies since many defected when Rob got fired (plus Haddix got hurt). Remember we had a walk on getting some mins almost each game (Justin Maxwell). If it weren't for the need if bodies, it's my opinion Siena wouldn't have necessarily allowed it. Look, I'll say it again. I don't mind JUCOs. But based in Sirna's track record for getting JUCOs without any reason why, I'm left to draw my own conclusion- which unfortunately is academics/qualifying/or perceived trouble cases. Until Siena (or anyone in the know) can provide their reason(s) it's not unreasonable to assume it could be one of the 3 I mentioned. Edited. Currently Jimmy has almost a full cubbies of players, Fran didn't his 1st yr and maybe Siena bent it's unwritten (perceived by this fan) rule of not wanting to go the JUCO route. Jimmy always says we're doing it the right way (or Siena does it the right way). What does that mean? To me it means they offer an opportunity for a 4 yr degree first and then basketball secondary. A bonus is to also meet some sort of academic standard that might be higher for BBall than other colleges. JMO "Needed bodies?" Thats a cop out. Plenty of prep school, and HS seniors were available I'm sure. Yes, he "needed bodies". He had 8 scholarship players (not including Diop & Osby). IF there were good enough HS or prep players available during the summer he got hired I'm sure Fran would have offered. I'm assuming there weren't any so he grabbed two JUVOs (which still left Siena with 3 ships to offer that they never did). Roster: Jordan Mesah Hasnrouck Fisher Ryan Beers Isn't Diop Brags Had fix RS Injury Walk-ons Maxwell Harris Johnson Doemel You're trying to compare Fran grabbing 2 JUCOs with only 8 ships to Jimmy only having 1 shop left? Apples & Oranges!
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,488
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 24, 2015 21:41:45 GMT -5
"Needed bodies?" Thats a cop out. Plenty of prep school, and HS seniors were available I'm sure. Yes, he "needed bodies". He had 8 scholarship players (not including Diop & Osby). IF there were good enough HS or prep players available during the summer he got hired I'm sure Fran would have offered. I'm assuming there weren't any so he grabbed two JUVOs (which still left Siena with 3 ships to offer that they never did). Roster: Jordan Mesah Hasnrouck Fisher Ryan Beers Isn't Diop Brags Had fix RS Injury Walk-ons Maxwell Harris Johnson Doemel You're trying to compare Fran grabbing 2 JUCOs with only 8 ships to Jimmy only having 1 shop left? Apples & Oranges! Nope, I'm comparing the so-called "philosophy of the school" about JUCO's that seems to only apply to certain coaches. IF Fran was told the same thing that Jimmy is now being told about the schools "no thanks" policy about JUCO's, Fran would have been forced to take two HS/prep kids instead of the two kids he was allowed to recruit. The only apples and oranges here seem to be the recruiting rules for each Siena coach.
|
|
IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 8,973
Dislikes:
|
Post by IndianSaint on Apr 24, 2015 22:02:23 GMT -5
You win. It must be the coaches' decision then & not Siena/admins then. But that just means that very few of the last 6 coaches ever wanted JUCOs.
I find that hard to believe the admin/Siena didn't want JUCOs (for what ever reason).
Believe what you want to. I believe Siena doesn't want JUCOs (I'mprobably wrong but the evidence of Siena not going the JUCO route seems to be true me based on history). What's the odds that only 2 of the last 6 coaches wanted JUCOs and the othe 4 didn't?
|
|
sky
Junior
Posts: 1,052
Dislikes:
|
Post by sky on Apr 25, 2015 6:05:45 GMT -5
First of all there are extremely large areas in this country that do not have D1 schools near them. If a 6-10 kid with tons of talent and great grades goes JUCO for family reasons and then wants to go to Siena there is no doubt that we would take him. Everyone's life is not urban and suburban based. Probably the biggest reason a kid wants to stay local is because he fell in lust.
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,488
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 25, 2015 7:26:00 GMT -5
You win. It must be the coaches' decision then & not Siena/admins then. But that just means that very few of the last 6 coaches ever wanted JUCOs. I find that hard to believe the admin/Siena didn't want JUCOs (for what ever reason). Believe what you want to. I believe Siena doesn't want JUCOs (I'mprobably wrong but the evidence of Siena not going the JUCO route seems to be true me based on history). What's the odds that only 2 of the last 6 coaches wanted JUCOs and the othe 4 didn't? They ALL wanted players. Whether it was out of HS or JUCO. I'm telling you that the administration is telling JP he CAN'T RECRUIT JUCOS. Obviously NOT what they told Fran. Those statements are based on history too, because a JUCO is what this team needs for the junior class that has been decimated (Cole, Wolfe, White and JO). That, and we need a SF that can shoot the 3.
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,687
Member is Online
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Apr 25, 2015 11:01:39 GMT -5
You win. It must be the coaches' decision then & not Siena/admins then. But that just means that very few of the last 6 coaches ever wanted JUCOs. I find that hard to believe the admin/Siena didn't want JUCOs (for what ever reason). Believe what you want to. I believe Siena doesn't want JUCOs (I'mprobably wrong but the evidence of Siena not going the JUCO route seems to be true me based on history). What's the odds that only 2 of the last 6 coaches wanted JUCOs and the othe 4 didn't? They ALL wanted players. Whether it was out of HS or JUCO. I'm telling you that the administration is telling JP he CAN'T RECRUIT JUCOS. Obviously NOT what they told Fran. Those statements are based on history too, because a JUCO is what this team needs for the junior class that has been decimated (Cole, Wolfe, White and JO). That, and we need a SF that can shoot the 3. Why do you think that is......anti-Juco sentiment ?
|
|
|
Post by MTS on Apr 25, 2015 11:24:27 GMT -5
You win. It must be the coaches' decision then & not Siena/admins then. But that just means that very few of the last 6 coaches ever wanted JUCOs. I find that hard to believe the admin/Siena didn't want JUCOs (for what ever reason). Believe what you want to. I believe Siena doesn't want JUCOs (I'mprobably wrong but the evidence of Siena not going the JUCO route seems to be true me based on history). What's the odds that only 2 of the last 6 coaches wanted JUCOs and the othe 4 didn't? They ALL wanted players. Whether it was out of HS or JUCO. I'm telling you that the administration is telling JP he CAN'T RECRUIT JUCOS. Obviously NOT what they told Fran. Those statements are based on history too, because a JUCO is what this team needs for the junior class that has been decimated (Cole, Wolfe, White and JO). That, and we need a SF that can shoot the 3. I believe you...of course Jimmy could be exaggerating a tad when he says the admin won't let him take ANY JUCO player (different from multiple JUCOs). I don't think Jimmy is all that familiar with the JUCO scene and the last thing he wants to do is swing and miss on one I'm sure. If the Siena admin truly won't let him take any JUCOs after allowing both Lanier and Fran to take them - they are completely wrong and hurting Siena's ability to compete with the rest of D1 (hard enough not being able to get graduate students). Siena isn't Harvard - time for them to get off their high horse about trying to be some elite academic institution. The game is changing and Siena has to adapt otherwise other programs will leave us in the dust. How nice would it be to plug in an Evan Singletary? Nico better be ready to go we don't have the luxury for him to have a long learning curve. Nico is the key this year between contending and not contending for the MAAC title I really believe that.
|
|
IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 8,973
Dislikes:
|
Post by IndianSaint on Apr 25, 2015 11:42:13 GMT -5
You win. It must be the coaches' decision then & not Siena/admins then. But that just means that very few of the last 6 coaches ever wanted JUCOs. I find that hard to believe the admin/Siena didn't want JUCOs (for what ever reason). Believe what you want to. I believe Siena doesn't want JUCOs (I'mprobably wrong but the evidence of Siena not going the JUCO route seems to be true me based on history). What's the odds that only 2 of the last 6 coaches wanted JUCOs and the othe 4 didn't? They ALL wanted players. Whether it was out of HS or JUCO. I'm telling you that the administration is telling JP he CAN'T RECRUIT JUCOS. Obviously NOT what they told Fran. Those statements are based on history too, because a JUCO is what this team needs for the junior class that has been decimated (Cole, Wolfe, White and JO). That, and we need a SF that can shoot the 3. I too think the admin don't want JUCOs (and have never really ever wanted them (for whatever reason)). The only difference with Fran, IMO, was that Fran only had 8 ship players when he got here late that spring/summer and couldn't get (for whatever reason) quality HS/Prep players and HAD to get JUCOs. I believe he was able to convince the admin of this so they let him. I think we're saying the same thing just I may not have been as clear as you needed. I on the other hand don't mind if Siena were to get JUCOs (obviously they'd have to meet whatever standard the admin wants) which likely means we wouldn't get the best or most talented players. Those better players would go to higher levels or not qualify for Siena standards. JMO
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,488
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 25, 2015 12:35:17 GMT -5
They ALL wanted players. Whether it was out of HS or JUCO. I'm telling you that the administration is telling JP he CAN'T RECRUIT JUCOS. Obviously NOT what they told Fran. Those statements are based on history too, because a JUCO is what this team needs for the junior class that has been decimated (Cole, Wolfe, White and JO). That, and we need a SF that can shoot the 3. I too think the admin don't want JUCOs (and gave never really ever wanted them (for whatever reason)). The only difference with Fran, IMO, was that Fran only had 8 shop players when he got here late that sprung/summer and couldn't get (for whatever reason) quality HS/Prep players and HAD to get JUCOs. I believe he was able to convince the admin of this so they let him. I think we're saying the same thing just I may not have been as clear as you needed. I on the other hand don't mind if Suena were to get JUCOs (obviously they'd have to meet whatever standard the admin wants) which likely means we wouldn't get the best or most talented players. Those better players would go to higher levels or not qualify for Siena standards. JMO It's well documented most of our "great" players were after thoughts. Fran had 8 guys when he got the job in May? You act like it was too late to give HS seniors the scholarsships in order to beef up the roster?? I'm sure all the good JUCO's were gone in May too. Just an excuse.
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,488
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 25, 2015 12:39:45 GMT -5
They ALL wanted players. Whether it was out of HS or JUCO. I'm telling you that the administration is telling JP he CAN'T RECRUIT JUCOS. Obviously NOT what they told Fran. Those statements are based on history too, because a JUCO is what this team needs for the junior class that has been decimated (Cole, Wolfe, White and JO). That, and we need a SF that can shoot the 3. Why do you think that is......anti-Juco sentiment ? Not sure. I don't wanna be Iona either, but let's get real here. Letting us have ONE to fill a major void in a class makes sense to me. Not sure the Siena adminstration wants, or cares about winning basketball games anymore. Recruiting budgets are woefullly low, the lockerrooms at the TUC are awful. Hell the team doesn't even have a full time trainer, yet as fans we demand greatness. We need the school to get behind the program by putting their $$$$ where their mouths are. You want the too program in the MAAC? Make the improvements. Commit financially.
|
|
|
Post by siena7127 on Apr 25, 2015 12:50:49 GMT -5
The staff is looking at some JUCOs currently, I don't have any other info other then that. They are looking for an impact player that can play now.
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,687
Member is Online
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Apr 25, 2015 13:20:46 GMT -5
Why do you think that is......anti-Juco sentiment ? Not sure. I don't wanna be Iona either, but let's get real here. Letting us have ONE to fill a major void in a class makes sense to me. Not sure the Siena adminstration wants, or cares about winning basketball games anymore. Recruiting budgets are woefullly low, the lockerrooms at the TUC are awful. Hell the team doesn't even have a full time trainer, yet as fans we demand greatness. We need the school to get behind the program by putting their $$$$ where their mouths are. You want the too program in the MAAC? Make the improvements. Commit financially. It's business sometimes you have to spend a little/invest to see a return ..... Doing nothing leads to nothing. In fact it's detrimental Poor management penny wise pound foolish.
|
|
IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 8,973
Dislikes:
|
Post by IndianSaint on Apr 25, 2015 15:16:55 GMT -5
I too think the admin don't want JUCOs (and gave never really ever wanted them (for whatever reason)). The only difference with Fran, IMO, was that Fran only had 8 shop players when he got here late that sprung/summer and couldn't get (for whatever reason) quality HS/Prep players and HAD to get JUCOs. I believe he was able to convince the admin of this so they let him. I think we're saying the same thing just I may not have been as clear as you needed. I on the other hand don't mind if Suena were to get JUCOs (obviously they'd have to meet whatever standard the admin wants) which likely means we wouldn't get the best or most talented players. Those better players would go to higher levels or not qualify for Siena standards. JMO It's well documented most of our "great" players were after thoughts. Fran had 8 guys when he got the job in May? You act like it was too late to give HS seniors the scholarsships in order to beef up the roster?? I'm sure all the good JUCO's were gone in May too. Just an excuse. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Fran had 8 guys & needed more. Of course there were HS/Prep/JUCOs available. Fran either couldn't get the leftover HS/Prep he wanted (or they didn't want to come) so it's my belief that somehow he convinced the admin to let him get 2 JUCOs. Not an excuse, but I believe it's a rare example of the admin caving against this unwritten policy of not wanting JUCOs. I could be wrong & maybe the admin doesn't mind JUCOs (I just think they don't want them). Yes, I too would love an impact player for the last ship (D1 transfer who can play right a way or a very good/excellent JUCO). Otherwise save it for midsession transfers or next yr. Don't give it to CG unless he earns it and is better than incoming Frosh.
|
|
IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 8,973
Dislikes:
|
Post by IndianSaint on Apr 25, 2015 15:19:48 GMT -5
Tony, I'm surprised you haven't created a HJ & IS thread on the smack board. We're going at it but I really think we're saying the same thing (HJ doesn't think so but I do).
|
|
brian
Junior
Posts: 999
Dislikes:
|
Post by brian on Apr 25, 2015 17:51:41 GMT -5
I'll say it again, if the school has any sort of unofficial no JUCO policy for mens basketball it is crap. For a non-qualifier out of high school that goes JUCO these are the rules that went into place a couple years ago:
At the two-year school, did you: n Complete at least three semesters or four quarters as a full-time student? (Summer school does not count.) n Graduate from a two-year school? You must earn 25 percent of the credit hours at the two-year school that awards your degree. n Earn 48-semester or 72-quarter transferable-degree credit hours at the two-year school? The transfer credits MUST include six-semester or eight-quarter hours of English, three-semester or four-quarter hours of math, AND three-semester or four-quarter hours of natural/physical science.** If you are a nonqualifier... n Earn a GPA of 2.500 in those transferable credit hours?
In other words, if you are a non-qualifier out of high school you need to get your associates and do so with a minimum of 2.5 gpa with certain course requirements or you cannot receive a DI scholarship and be immediately eligible.
If a kid has accomplished that, it is good enough to attend Siena on a basketball scholarship.
|
|