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Post by playerparentcoach on Mar 23, 2015 10:28:04 GMT -5
I think after one down year, it's way too early to be saying this. Before the season, MTS was ready to anoint Manning the next head coach. While maybe this crew isn't Fran, Mitch, Francis and Chaskin. overall...it was still good enough to make people happy after JP 1. Would I like to see someone with a little more high level D1 experience on the staff? Absolutely. But that's up to Patsos. Perhaps even keeping Carter or Tobin might not have been a bad idea in hindsight...but you never know what goes on behind the scenes and what the team's needs are. Keeping Tobin would've been nice. Tobin reached out for the job but Patsos already decided to bring Luke. I liked him...got to know him more than Mitch during recruiting. so unless Luke is leaving along with Garrett the staff prob wont change at all. Greg is not going anywhere at least for 2 more years. And Jordan has more than just City Rock ties...he is the African American on staff. He is the balance and why Tobin did not have a chance.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 23, 2015 11:35:08 GMT -5
From a strictly business approach the buck stops at the HC. Does he delegate, how much does he delegate, does he require, demand performance from his staff. I read here first the assistants are inexperienced, than further down they have some experience. Which is it? One definitely needs to go. Jordan with local ties, his race and background needs to stay. I'll leave opinion of the other 2 to the bloggers here that know them well.
Been saying for years that the Siena players strength and conditioning borders on disastrous. It got better under Fran but took several steps back since. HC responsibility.
Perhaps JP management skills are not that great. Gee Siena has a great business school. Administration again needs to be held accountable. If he vetted JP properly, they would have known what his positive negatives skills were and had him bring in someone offset the skills needed to be improved. Perhaps as an afterthought, purely BS Mitch should have been kept on as an assistant. Who knows by his third year Mitch should have known he was in over his head and he does enjoy the game, so he eats some ego. Quite frankly from what has been posted here Mitch is better than all 3 combined.
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Post by MTS on Mar 23, 2015 11:40:25 GMT -5
Keeping Tobin would've been nice. Tobin reached out for the job but Patsos already decided to bring Luke. I liked him...got to know him more than Mitch during recruiting. so unless Luke is leaving along with Garrett the staff prob wont change at all. Greg is not going anywhere at least for 2 more years. And Jordan has more than just City Rock ties...he is the African American on staff. He is the balance and why Tobin did not have a chance. My guess (and this is only a guess) is that Luke will be moving on (along with Garrett Kelly - DBO don't stay past two years) and that's it. Greg won't be going anyplace but he might move "down" to second assistant. Lucious is probably 50/50. If he were to go, yes, we would need another minority on the staff (diversity is important). I just don't think you can remain the same off a year like this one. Mitch fired Adam Chaskin after his first year. Sorry but somebody's going to pay. Jimmy gets a mulligan for this ONE year but an assistant does not. Sure the buck stops with him but he needs to have the best staff possible. Let's face it - not a good thing to have all your assistants out as "jet setters" - JP wants to do that fine but you better have some assistants cracking down making sure players are working hard and recruiting their asses off. Jimmy needs an older experienced coach. Ironically he needs a Mitch type (no way am I advocating for bringing Mitch in of course). Whether that is Jeff Ruland or someone else we shall see.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 11:48:50 GMT -5
Jimmy needs an older experienced coach. Ironically he needs a Mitch type (no way am I advocating for bringing Mitch in of course). Hahahahahaha
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Post by SaintsFan on Mar 23, 2015 11:50:28 GMT -5
Ed. Don't start trouble if you don't want to be questioned. You said a statement I made was false (it wasn't almost all the D1 experience is at loyola) also said it was fire all 3 or status quo. Once again wrong. Led me to believe you have a reading comprehension problem or an agenda. Which is it? This program has had 5 straight sub par years mistakes have been made. This staff has been a bit lazy on recruiting trail. Some changes need to made or you will continue to see this program slip further into mediocrity than it already is personally I don't care if you support change or not. I do care if you make attacks on my post that are according to you false. Or any other bogus position you try to use to attack my post. I've dealt with people like you in past if you can't attack the message attack the messenger 3 of the sub par seasons were before Jimmy was even the coach and I have a tough time calling last year a subpar season when the team far exceeded MAAC preseason predictions and won the CBI to finish with a winning record. Jimmy had one disastrous season that, at least for me, was left a little less bitter with the fight they put up against Iona after routing Niagara. Obviously there are no excuses next year but not fair to hold Jimmy's assistants responsible for 5 subpar seasons. Maybe one needs to be replaced to shake things up but no way he should be expected to clean house. I continue to look at last year as a year in which any and every thing went right. Favorable draw coupled with home court advantage in the CBI. The team was sub .500 prior to that "tournament" fast forward to this year... a year in which "if it could go wrong, it did" the average of the two years is blah. I tend to believe the reality of where the team lies is somewhere in between last year and this. None of which is particularly breath taking. I believe many posters wanted this turned around so bad that they read into last year as the turning point. I believed the team would finish mid pack this year without the injuries 3-6 with 6 having the wheels come off... and the Cole experiment failing. Man did the wheels come off. I think next year falls in a similar outcome... as high as two or three if the new-comers can contribute. If the SG position / perimeter defense is addressed this team could do very well with Iona and Manhattan retooling a bit. all this being said ... the DMV-centric recruiting can not continue. The program benefits in all ways with exposure throughout the Northeast
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Post by knicksaint on Mar 23, 2015 12:00:03 GMT -5
I know a lot of posters do not pay much attention to our women's program, but Ali's staff this season (her third) was 100% turned over from her staff in her first year. Her team also has won almost as many games in year three (21) than it did in years one and two combined (22).
Just saying.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Mar 23, 2015 12:18:14 GMT -5
Tobin reached out for the job but Patsos already decided to bring Luke. I liked him...got to know him more than Mitch during recruiting. so unless Luke is leaving along with Garrett the staff prob wont change at all. Greg is not going anywhere at least for 2 more years. And Jordan has more than just City Rock ties...he is the African American on staff. He is the balance and why Tobin did not have a chance. Lucious is probably 50/50. If he were to go, yes, we would need another minority on the staff (diversity is important). So you'd be okay with us bringing in a Chinese coach to meet the diversity requirement?
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sky
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Post by sky on Mar 23, 2015 12:19:38 GMT -5
There has been a lot of talk about where we recruit but nothing mentioned about who we recruit. In the past we were always competing against higher level programs. Now we can't even get players with minimal offers. I know we are not always aware of offers but who have we offered that went to higher levels. In many cases the players we have did not have anything better. Nico is about the best we have gotten. Question: why would a 3 star recruit pick Siena ?
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Post by billmurray on Mar 23, 2015 12:21:31 GMT -5
Ed. Don't start trouble if you don't want to be questioned. You said a statement I made was false (it wasn't almost all the D1 experience is at loyola) also said it was fire all 3 or status quo. Once again wrong. Led me to believe you have a reading comprehension problem or an agenda. Which is it? This program has had 5 straight sub par years mistakes have been made. This staff has been a bit lazy on recruiting trail. Some changes need to made or you will continue to see this program slip further into mediocrity than it already is personally I don't care if you support change or not. I do care if you make attacks on my post that are according to you false. Or any other bogus position you try to use to attack my post. I've dealt with people like you in past if you can't attack the message attack the messenger 3 of the sub par seasons were before Jimmy was even the coach and I have a tough time calling last year a subpar season when the team far exceeded MAAC preseason predictions and won the CBI to finish with a winning record. Jimmy had one disastrous season that, at least for me, was left a little less bitter with the fight they put up against Iona after routing Niagara. Obviously there are no excuses next year but not fair to hold Jimmy's assistants responsible for 5 subpar seasons. Maybe one needs to be replaced to shake things up but no way he should be expected to clean house. More rational comments.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Mar 23, 2015 12:25:21 GMT -5
I know a lot of posters do not pay much attention to our women's program, but Ali's staff this season (her third) was 100% turned over from her staff in her first year. Her team also has won almost as many games in year three (21) than it did in years one and two combined (22). Just saying. I arrived to the party late on this thread but would have mentioned this if you hadn't. In Ali's case, it's MO that maybe she had to settle and make a rush decision (so late in getting job and little time to maybe research better candidates). Not suggesting Jimmy was in the same boat since he brought two of his Loyola assistants. I know I said this jokingly during the FF aware game - that Jimmy should hire Mitch, Deane & Ruland; but now I'll have to seriously consider adding Hewitt and possibly removing one of the others. Unless of course one of the original three will settle for DOBOs. In serious, I don't think all three need to be replaced if any, but if Jimmy thinks some need to be replaced for whatever reason - I'm ok with it.
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Post by MTS on Mar 23, 2015 12:29:37 GMT -5
Ed. Don't start trouble if you don't want to be questioned. You said a statement I made was false (it wasn't almost all the D1 experience is at loyola) also said it was fire all 3 or status quo. Once again wrong. Led me to believe you have a reading comprehension problem or an agenda. Which is it? This program has had 5 straight sub par years mistakes have been made. This staff has been a bit lazy on recruiting trail. Some changes need to made or you will continue to see this program slip further into mediocrity than it already is personally I don't care if you support change or not. I do care if you make attacks on my post that are according to you false. Or any other bogus position you try to use to attack my post. I've dealt with people like you in past if you can't attack the message attack the messenger 3 of the sub par seasons were before Jimmy was even the coach and I have a tough time calling last year a subpar season when the team far exceeded MAAC preseason predictions and won the CBI to finish with a winning record. Jimmy had one disastrous season that, at least for me, was left a little less bitter with the fight they put up against Iona after routing Niagara. Obviously there are no excuses next year but not fair to hold Jimmy's assistants responsible for 5 subpar seasons. Maybe one needs to be replaced to shake things up but no way he should be expected to clean house. I agree that Jimmy nor the current staff should be held responsible for the previous three years before their arrivals. The Siena administration, however, is another matter. And I think the first year was very good - considering what was left behind - to finish with a winning record and win ANY postseason tournament was a successful year. However I know people are frustrated of not contending for a MAAC title in 5 years. As Jimmy likes to quote the Godfather "this is the business we have chosen" - they knew that Siena is not used to being down this long and that fans are pissed even if they took over a bad situation. Plus you throw in the emergence of UAlbany and the urgency is ratchet up to the get the program back to contending for MAAC championships right now. I was always thinking the third year was the year we would make a big run at the MAAC title. The CBI moved it up to last year and injuries/turmoil derailed the season. Well we are now headed into the critical year three. Jimmy needs all hands on deck with the roster and coaching staff to be successful and make it happen.
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Post by billmurray on Mar 23, 2015 12:30:05 GMT -5
There has been a lot of talk about where we recruit but nothing mentioned about who we recruit. In the past we were always competing against higher level programs. Now we can't even get players with minimal offers. I know we are not always aware of offers but who have we offered that went to higher levels. In many cases the players we have did not have anything better. Nico is about the best we have gotten. Question: why would a 3 star recruit pick Siena ? Both Clareth and Fisher were three star kids on Verbal Commits.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Mar 23, 2015 12:33:52 GMT -5
I think after one down year, it's way too early to be saying this. Before the season, MTS was ready to anoint Manning the next head coach. While maybe this crew isn't Fran, Mitch, Francis and Chaskin. overall...it was still good enough to make people happy after JP 1. Would I like to see someone with a little more high level D1 experience on the staff? Absolutely. But that's up to Patsos. Perhaps even keeping Carter or Tobin might not have been a bad idea in hindsight...but you never know what goes on behind the scenes and what the team's needs are. For the record, MTS was also advocating for Tobin Anderson to be the next head coach after Mitch. That entire staff was incompetent with the exception of Craig Carter. They spent more time jockeying for position than running the team. When Patsos was rounding out his staff, he had the opportunity to keep Carter, who wanted to stay and was an excellent teacher of the game and recruiter with NY/NJ connections. He let him go and brought in Jordan instead. No offense to Jordan, but given his resume next to Carter's that was a huge blunder. It's also well-known that Mike Deane would give his left arm to return to Siena as an assistant at any time. Mitch told him no. Patsos should have recruited Deane to be his Mitch. Why would you not take an experienced ex-head coach at the highest level as your top assistant? All this being said, I am not an advocate for firing the entire staff - and you can be sure that is not going to happen. They are all pretty close. But I do think they need to bring in at least one tireless recruiter like a Jared Grasso. The staff certainly lacks that now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 12:43:40 GMT -5
There has been a lot of talk about where we recruit but nothing mentioned about who we recruit. In the past we were always competing against higher level programs. Now we can't even get players with minimal offers. I know we are not always aware of offers but who have we offered that went to higher levels. In many cases the players we have did not have anything better. Nico is about the best we have gotten. Question: why would a 3 star recruit pick Siena ? Both Clareth and Fisher were three star kids on Verbal Commits and I believe each had "higher" offers. Little off topic but.. I think Fisher should consider a redshirt if he can. Obviously not if he's outplaying others in practice...but the likelihood of the 1 frosh big man outplaying 4 to 5 upperclassman is pretty slim. Use it as a learning foundation year. He's not likely going to be on the same level coming in. He's not a shot blocker and is more of an interior scorer/rebounder it seems. If Bisping is healthy, he's got that role and then WB bring his defensive energy and 3 pt shooting off the bench. Between the scoring of JO and Bisping, and WB's threes I'm not sure we need him yet if he's your typical frosh. WB could take a big step forward, too. I'd hesitate to play him over JO, Silas, and WB and lose some of that potential shotblocking energy unless he had some of his own. I don't think the big scoring will be an issue.
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Post by SaintsFan on Mar 23, 2015 12:47:09 GMT -5
There has been a lot of talk about where we recruit but nothing mentioned about who we recruit. In the past we were always competing against higher level programs. Now we can't even get players with minimal offers. I know we are not always aware of offers but who have we offered that went to higher levels. In many cases the players we have did not have anything better. Nico is about the best we have gotten. Question: why would a 3 star recruit pick Siena ? i guess you'll have to ask Nico and Fisher
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