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Post by Tony on Mar 23, 2015 5:15:44 GMT -5
I don't know if all 3 should be fired, but I do think we need a big shake up. For one our game 'scouts" were spotty at best. Other than JO was not happy with player development. Lastly staff is very inexperienced and too DMV centered. They were on lazy side in recruiting, staff was seldom seen in local or NYS gyms, let alone almost non existent in Philly/Jersey. Jimmy obviously needs some help, staff needs a shake up in major way, if Jimmy isnt willing to do it, hope the AD grows a set of balls and steps in demanding some change
whats your take? Do we need change ?
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Post by DelmartianEd on Mar 23, 2015 5:21:23 GMT -5
I dunno, which assistant coach caused all the injuries? Let's fire the team doctor and shake up the strength and conditioning program too, right?
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Post by Tony on Mar 23, 2015 5:26:12 GMT -5
I dunno, which assistant coach caused all the injuries? Let's fire the team doctor and shake up the strength and conditioning program too, right? Please-- staff is inexperienced-- only experience most of them had was Loyola. Recruiting has been spotty at best I take it you feel injuries were problem last year- you were fine with player development, Pat Cole causing locker room problems ,. And lastly staff was lazy on recruiting trail- Was Pat Cole Vetted? What about Jimmy Paige, we sign a 6'4" PF in January last year- I assume staff thought he could play the wing ( and he still might eventually) but fact remains it was mistake. The TUC is seldom used as recruiting tool, staff is seldom seen on road recruiting -- all major red flags I think we all know Jimmy isn't a reincarnation of John Wooden. Jimmy needs all the help he can get, does he need help at Asst coach positions? Consider entire package that asst coaches do as it relates to player development recruiting etc.? Keep something in mind if Jimmy doesn’t want to go to local High school games, down to jersey or Philly for Tuesday night game, better have an asst willing to do it. If Jimmy wants to spend off season at Kentucky Derby Belmont Preakness , Paris etc—you sure as hell better have asst capable of running program here in Loudonville. While Jimmy was giving everyone 6 weeks off last summer, Iona Manhattan etc were working in gym
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Post by DelmartianEd on Mar 23, 2015 6:15:13 GMT -5
OK, so Patsos took a week-long vacation and two day trips last year. Do you really think that Fran McCaffery never traveled with his family? He just didn't talk about it to the press. Is there a reason that you preferred that approach?
Pat Cole not panning out was a major disappointment of this season. Which assistant coach is to blame for that?
I get the idea that no one is safe and nothing is sacred when we're looking at a 20-loss team. But if your goal is actually to support the current coach, I don't see the merit in undermining the people that he works well with, and that helped him recruit what looks like a solid class coming in next year.
Manning's only experience is at Siena and Loyola. Is he the problem, or is he still the young up-and-comer?
D'Alessio was a D-II head coach with an overall winning record. Jordan did a stint as DOBO at James Madison (alongside assistant coach Mike Deane) and is a former head coach of the AAU Albany City Rocks, as well as having played professional basketball.
I mean, if you're looking at all three of them, the statement "only experience most of them had was Loyola" is false.
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Post by Tony on Mar 23, 2015 6:21:50 GMT -5
Ed-- I can see where you are coming from.. and you are happy where Siena is right now? And that's fine that's why I asked question
And OK I should rephrase D1 experience and yes Jordan has one year as a DOBO at JMU -I'll stand by statement staff is inexperienced for most part -- unless you are happy with Loyola North --because other than 1 year as DOBO for Jordan all the D1 experience is from Loyola- so no its NOT false
BTW Fran had Mitch and Andrew Francis-- two gym rats on his staff-- they were seen all over Capital district gyms as well as gyms in NYC Jersey Philly. etc.,,- they thought nothing of hopping in car to head down to Philly for week night game-- or down to Staten Island to watch RR or OD Jersey to see Clarence Jackson etc etc ..amazing how "lucky" Fran got on recruiting trail with a staff that worked harder than anyone
And BTW Ed, I am fine that you are OK with status quo- I happen to think we had more wrong than injuries last year, so we can agree to disagree here
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bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Mar 23, 2015 6:29:40 GMT -5
I think we could use a shake up and st least 1 new coach with ties to either the NYC:NJ, PA or the NE prep school scene. We probably do need a new strength coach too but we have a pretty good one for Siena pays. Whoever we hire also needs to have that gym rat love for the game approach. Willing to watch film all night, go toHS games on non travel nights etc. leading by example inspire some of the players to do the same. I just don't get the feeling we have any gym rats on our staff who put their heart and soul into it but hey I could be wrong
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Post by DelmartianEd on Mar 23, 2015 6:36:21 GMT -5
.. and you are happy where Siena is right now? That's a really false choice. You're painting this conversation into the corner of having only two choices: fire all three assistant coaches, or "status quo." Obviously those aren't the only two choices.
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glen
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Post by glen on Mar 23, 2015 6:49:34 GMT -5
All this presumes Jimmy has no idea what's going on around him. Jimmy is the head guy. If he thought it was important to go to Philly for an evening I'd bet the assistants would be doing that. Obviously Jimmy doesn't feel it is important. That worries me more. Jimmy has been a head coach for a long time. I would think he'd make a change if he thought something was broken. If he doesn't then he should own the consequences.
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mjs72
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Post by mjs72 on Mar 23, 2015 7:01:52 GMT -5
What would letting all three go say about our stability. Especially losing Wolfe, Mo to transfer, the Cole debacle and whatever happens to Cam. And we should blame the strength coach if the kids aren't putting in the time. That's on Jimmy who sets priorities. Finally, Lucious is our like to the Rocks. He goes,it goes I bet
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 23, 2015 7:09:51 GMT -5
The last 2 posts are the most rational arguments in my mind. The head coach sets the tone for the assistants. If he has emphasized that their priorities should be what is suggested; expand beyond DMV, being on the road more, gym rat mentality, proper vetting, etc., and those expectations are not being met, then he should replace any asst not meeting them. Starts at the top.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 7:10:43 GMT -5
Luke was also head coach of a collegiate/semi-pro team in Ireland, so he does have a varied background and experience base.
I do agree that a shake-up is needed but I don't place the blame, not surprisingly, solely on the assistants. They will take the fall if one comes but the program's direction/strategy/role assignments comes, or should come, from the head coach and we all know Jimmy is a very strong willed person who expects to get his way. At the beginning of last season I was chatting with Greg and asked about Jimmy's scouting philosophy while explaining the breadth and depth of the scouts demanded by Fran. (I know everyone immediately thinks of Mitch as the only detail guy and that is true to a degree but Fran demanded the same type of scout from each of his assistants - long, thorough, and fully explained and demonstrated to all players on the team - they had to learn the other team's plays and actually execute them live!) Greg said they just put together a 3 page or so scout and focused on the major threats - I never saw one so I have no idea what level of detail went into them. (I was curious to see if he had looked in the files at an old Loyola scout to see how well the previous staff saw a team that Greg was intimately familiar with) Adam let me read and study a couple of game scouts before they were given to the team - no exaggeration here - I spent a good 2+ hours reading/studying and rereading them, hoping to be able to follow the introductory practice and better see the other team's plays and defenses. Always amazed me how much Fran demanded of his assistants and his players - all of them.
Game management appears helter skelter (no other way for me to express it) at best - seating arrangements always the same Greg, player's hot seat, Luke, Lucious, players, so it was impossible to tell whose scout it was until the post game radio broadcast. Greg always seemed to be 100% involved with the live play. All of the coaches seemed to be yelling during live play at various times, including Jimmy. I have no clue how Marquis knew what the hell was the actual action/play being looked for. I rarely saw him call a play on his own after seeing the defense in front of him. Jimmy always seemed to be in Luke's grill no matter what. Greg seemed to handle the TO huddles but the other coaches were often seen talking to players as well and at the same time. A much, much different process than Fran's - he gathered his staff, including the DBO first, consulted with them and then he, and he alone, talked to the players - the scout coach always sat next to Fran during the game I believe and Fran would talk with him when needed.
As to recruiting, I really can't offer much as to where they get sent or how much each coach offers up front and asks to go watch specific players. I would be surprised if Luke and Greg did not come to Siena with a list of '15, '16, '17 possibles. Lucious, I would think, would be the local guy as he would have very little DMV history - again, a guess. The recruiting budgets are always tight and would be controlled by Jimmy so I can see him leaning more towards the DMV area both out of familiarity and as mini-perks for the Luke or Greg to go back "home" - again, just a guess.
I get there won't be a physical change at the top for a couple of years if at all. Change will only come from Jimmy and unless he brings in some experience and strong wills, I don't expect the major shakeup that some hope for. We need and hopefully are getting a major infusion of talent and speed. If those resources fall prey to the same style of coaching we may not make the strides forward that one would wish for. Just don't see it - and I desperately want to.
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Post by Tony on Mar 23, 2015 7:49:28 GMT -5
.. and you are happy where Siena is right now? That's a really false choice. You're painting this conversation into the corner of having only two choices: fire all three assistant coaches, or "status quo." Obviously those aren't the only two choices. Ed that's not what I said I'm wondering if you have a reading comprehension problem?. Go back and re read my first post. I would tend to agree with others that firing all 3 might be over the top. But IMHO one maybe two have to go
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Post by playerparentcoach on Mar 23, 2015 7:57:49 GMT -5
I disagree that we need to force Patsos to fire his staff. How can he hire another one that will trust him while at Siena? Also Greg and Luke are a team with Patsos...on the recruiting trail they work well together and usually get their top priority recruits. While Greg followed Lavon Luke followed Wright for example while Patsos posted up on the #1 overall guy. All 3 had answers to different questions and were always available to the recruits and those closest to them. Injuries was not the only issue but the biggest and it is hard to judge player development or the training program due to this. Time will tell but I.believe if we can have more luck in that department next season along with the new additions we will be fine
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Mar 23, 2015 8:12:33 GMT -5
no.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 8:43:40 GMT -5
I think after one down year, it's way too early to be saying this.
Before the season, MTS was ready to anoint Manning the next head coach.
While maybe this crew isn't Fran, Mitch, Francis and Chaskin. overall...it was still good enough to make people happy after JP 1.
Would I like to see someone with a little more high level D1 experience on the staff? Absolutely.
But that's up to Patsos.
Perhaps even keeping Carter or Tobin might not have been a bad idea in hindsight...but you never know what goes on behind the scenes and what the team's needs are.
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