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Post by Tony on Mar 1, 2015 16:11:43 GMT -5
Wait...what??? I thought you were in it for 8-10 years?!?! There's that consistency thing again. If it takes that long, yes. I'm not a fair-weather fan. Siena basketball doesn't owe me anything. You are not a Siena fan- you are a drinking fan- if Saints moved back to Arc you wouldn't see another game
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Post by saintsandeagles on Mar 1, 2015 16:20:56 GMT -5
I. For all the completely deserved love of Fran, his recruiting classes were part of the downfall of Siena under Mitch. You lost me right there- yeah leaving Mitch The best big man in Siena history and MAAC PoY RR, two time NCAA rebounding champion OD , ALL MAAC performer Clarence Jackson, Big east big man transfer Brandon Walters, Kyle Downey and Owen Wignot. I agree Mitch was horrible and recruited a ton of low D1 D2 type talent and left the cupboard bare for Jimmy As for Jimmy he got lazy last year and had a bad recruiting class- the injuries this year exposed that - if we needed quick players that can get their own shot off why recruit Paige and Gottfried- sorry my friend you make no sense Fair or not the clock is ticking on Jimmy, he wont get fired next year because Siena is on the hook for some big bucks, but in case you didn't notice fans started staying away in droves toward the end of this year, this year is 2nd 20 loss season in last 3 years- fans have been patient for last 5 years- now you want them to wait another 5-- doesnt work that way .. Having said all that I like this years recruiting class and hopefully progress is made next year and all this is moot Agree with most of this, but I don't know that it's fair to treat Gottfried as lazy recruiting seeing as the alternative was taking no one. Obviously it's a different story if he gets a scholarship next year, and if he doesn't it's not great for Jimmy's reputation. So I wouldn't call it good recruiting, but I don't think it's lazy as he could've taken the time he spent recruiting Cam talking about horse racing at some local bar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 16:22:13 GMT -5
If it takes that long, yes. I'm not a fair-weather fan. Siena basketball doesn't owe me anything. You are not a Siena fan- you are a drinking fan- if Saints moved back to Arc you wouldn't see another game After this year, is there really a difference? I hear the Betty Ford Center is on the funding source list for next year - a great half-time competition is planned - two fans, randomly selected from the half-time beer lines, will each don a costume (either a bottle of Jack or a bottle of Dewars), crawl out to midcourt from the baseline and attempt to stand up - first one up gets a free night at Betty Ford. A follow on Dunkin' Donuts Coffee promo is on the drawing boards!
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Post by sienasaint3 on Mar 1, 2015 17:24:54 GMT -5
I. For all the completely deserved love of Fran, his recruiting classes were part of the downfall of Siena under Mitch. You lost me right there- yeah leaving Mitch The best big man in Siena history and MAAC PoY RR, two time NCAA rebounding champion OD , ALL MAAC performer Clarence Jackson, Big east big man transfer Brandon Walters, Kyle Downey and Owen Wignot. I agree Mitch was horrible and recruited a ton of low D1 D2 type talent and left the cupboard bare for Jimmy As for Jimmy he got lazy last year and had a bad recruiting class- the injuries this year exposed that - if we needed quick players that can get their own shot off why recruit Paige and Gottfried- sorry my friend you make no sense Fair or not the clock is ticking on Jimmy, he wont get fired next year because Siena is on the hook for some big bucks, but in case you didn't notice fans started staying away in droves toward the end of this year, this year is 2nd 20 loss season in last 3 years- fans have been patient for last 5 years- now you want them to wait another 5-- doesnt work that way .. Having said all that I like this years recruiting class and hopefully progress is made next year and all this is moot Branden, Kyle, and Owen were role players at best. Clarence was hurt that whole season and did not play well to leading role. Rossiter and Anosike were both good but they were also misused by Mitch trying to force touches to them. I cant say that this years recruiting strategy was the best as Paige does not seem to fill a needed role at all, so not sure what the strategy was there, and if you want to question it then fine. I'm not saying to wait 5 years, I am saying that teams are not built overnight. Seems that people are optimistic about Clareth, La Rose, Wormley and Fisher. If they fail then I say question Patsos big time and begin to call for his head. The team this year has a huge need for athleticism on the wing. Seems as if Clareth and Wormley can both help with that.
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Post by Tony on Mar 1, 2015 17:42:20 GMT -5
You lost me right there- yeah leaving Mitch The best big man in Siena history and MAAC PoY RR, two time NCAA rebounding champion OD , ALL MAAC performer Clarence Jackson, Big east big man transfer Brandon Walters, Kyle Downey and Owen Wignot. I agree Mitch was horrible and recruited a ton of low D1 D2 type talent and left the cupboard bare for Jimmy As for Jimmy he got lazy last year and had a bad recruiting class- the injuries this year exposed that - if we needed quick players that can get their own shot off why recruit Paige and Gottfried- sorry my friend you make no sense Fair or not the clock is ticking on Jimmy, he wont get fired next year because Siena is on the hook for some big bucks, but in case you didn't notice fans started staying away in droves toward the end of this year, this year is 2nd 20 loss season in last 3 years- fans have been patient for last 5 years- now you want them to wait another 5-- doesnt work that way .. Having said all that I like this years recruiting class and hopefully progress is made next year and all this is moot Branden, Kyle, and Owen were role players at best. Clarence was hurt that whole season and did not play well to leading role. Rossiter and Anosike were both good but they were also misused by Mitch trying to force touches to them. I cant say that this years recruiting strategy was the best as Paige does not seem to fill a needed role at all, so not sure what the strategy was there, and if you want to question it then fine. I'm not saying to wait 5 years, I am saying that teams are not built overnight. Seems that people are optimistic about Clareth, La Rose, Wormley and Fisher. If they fail then I say question Patsos big time and begin to call for his head. The team this year has a huge need for athleticism on the wing. Seems as if Clareth and Wormley can both help with that. Downey Wignot would start on this team and prolly be the 2nd and 3rd scorers--not going to argue with you over this we can agree to disagree Fran has been gone 5 years so it’s kind of lame to blame anything on him Paige was a puzzling recruit, he doesn't fill a role, his verbal was accepted at the end of January when he had no other solid offers, it was like the staff wanted to get recruiting over with. And I won’t even get into Gottfried deal - even though it didn’t cost us a ship this year, it would have down the road I agree with giving Jimmy another year, and he doesn’t have to win the MAAC, but I would like to see us competitive in MAAC ( something we haven’t been in last 5 years) Listen I understand Siena owes Jimmy a lot of money and he isn’t going anywhere soon Just saying he doesn't have 5 years to turn the corner
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Post by sienasaint3 on Mar 1, 2015 17:51:04 GMT -5
Branden, Kyle, and Owen were role players at best. Clarence was hurt that whole season and did not play well to leading role. Rossiter and Anosike were both good but they were also misused by Mitch trying to force touches to them. I cant say that this years recruiting strategy was the best as Paige does not seem to fill a needed role at all, so not sure what the strategy was there, and if you want to question it then fine. I'm not saying to wait 5 years, I am saying that teams are not built overnight. Seems that people are optimistic about Clareth, La Rose, Wormley and Fisher. If they fail then I say question Patsos big time and begin to call for his head. The team this year has a huge need for athleticism on the wing. Seems as if Clareth and Wormley can both help with that. Downey Wignot would start on this team and prolly be the 2nd and 3rd scorers--not going to argue with you over this we can agree to disagree Fran has been gone 5 years so it’s kind of lame to blame anything on him Paige was a puzzling recruit, he doesn't fill a role, his verbal was accepted at the end of January when he had no other solid offers, it was like the staff wanted to get recruiting over with. And I won’t even get into Gottfried deal - even though it didn’t cost us a ship this year, it would have down the road I agree with giving Jimmy another year, and he doesn’t have to win the MAAC, but I would like to see us competitive in MAAC ( something we haven’t been in last 5 years) Listen I understand Siena owes Jimmy a lot of money and he isn’t going anywhere soon Just saying he doesn't have 5 years to turn the corner I'm not blaming a thing on Fran. I am saying recruiting top tier talent at Siena isnt as easy as snapping your fingers. I agree with not having 5 years, but dont think placing judgment after 2 years is a good idea either.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 1, 2015 18:42:18 GMT -5
Downey Wignot would start on this team and prolly be the 2nd and 3rd scorers--not going to argue with you over this we can agree to disagree Fran has been gone 5 years so it’s kind of lame to blame anything on him Paige was a puzzling recruit, he doesn't fill a role, his verbal was accepted at the end of January when he had no other solid offers, it was like the staff wanted to get recruiting over with. And I won’t even get into Gottfried deal - even though it didn’t cost us a ship this year, it would have down the road I agree with giving Jimmy another year, and he doesn’t have to win the MAAC, but I would like to see us competitive in MAAC ( something we haven’t been in last 5 years) Listen I understand Siena owes Jimmy a lot of money and he isn’t going anywhere soon Just saying he doesn't have 5 years to turn the corner I'm not blaming a thing on Fran. I am saying recruiting top tier talent at Siena isnt as easy as snapping your fingers. I agree with not having 5 years, but dont think placing judgment after 2 years is a good idea either. I agree that we have to give JP more than 2 years. However I feel Siena has it all over the other schools in the MAAC as far as recruiting. Academically all the schools seem to be in the same ballpark. Venue, fan base, history all in Siena's favor. Once again the question is raises regarding admissions and/or interference in the recruiting process from administration. I do not pretend to know but frankly those questions have to be answered.
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Post by greenblood on Mar 1, 2015 18:48:10 GMT -5
NO Dave, academically they are NOT in the same ball park. Siena is the only MAAC school with ONE graduate program.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 1, 2015 18:58:57 GMT -5
green undergraduate programs. That's what the NCAA measures the academics on so I am told. Could be wrong. Your attempting to get into a schools your worried about the undergraduate program. Siena I also believe is one of the top schools in graduation rates.
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Post by sienasaint3 on Mar 1, 2015 19:27:37 GMT -5
I'm not blaming a thing on Fran. I am saying recruiting top tier talent at Siena isnt as easy as snapping your fingers. I agree with not having 5 years, but dont think placing judgment after 2 years is a good idea either. I agree that we have to give JP more than 2 years. However I feel Siena has it all over the other schools in the MAAC as far as recruiting. Academically all the schools seem to be in the same ballpark. Venue, fan base, history all in Siena's favor. Once again the question is raises regarding admissions and/or interference in the recruiting process from administration. I do not pretend to know but frankly those questions have to be answered. What kid really cares that Siena won 3 MAAC tournaments starting over 6 years ago? That is what I am trying to say. Having an arena is nice but that is not a factor alone enough to get top recruits.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 1, 2015 19:42:06 GMT -5
I agree that we have to give JP more than 2 years. However I feel Siena has it all over the other schools in the MAAC as far as recruiting. Academically all the schools seem to be in the same ballpark. Venue, fan base, history all in Siena's favor. Once again the question is raises regarding admissions and/or interference in the recruiting process from administration. I do not pretend to know but frankly those questions have to be answered. What kid really cares that Siena won 3 MAAC tournaments starting over 6 years ago? That is what I am trying to say. Having an arena is nice but that is not a factor alone enough to get top recruits. absolutely right not just the arena. the fan base. the history but also playing time as well type of play. most kids that are great do not care about academics terrible but true. personally I like to see siena take kids that are good academically challenges and put them through 4 years of hell academically and let them earn that 50 k by graduating. no reason they can't play ball excel both on the court and academically. just puts more pressure on the school.
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Post by greenblood on Mar 1, 2015 20:15:29 GMT -5
Dave- my point is if we want to recruit good kids as transfers, we need GRADUATE programs. It is beyond me why we don't have an MBA, for example. I would bet every other school in the conference has at least 20 Masters Programs. I believe that we could get high character transfers or 5th years that would impact this team if we had those programs. I know most here think it doesn't matter, but the wave of the 'older' college hoop players started increasing exponentially over the last 10 years, there was plenty of time to at least double the number of grad programs offered. I know some here think I am crazy on this point.
And as for 50K, you mean per year right? because base tuition is over 33K for a NARP who doesn't get special study halls and tutors. Every scholarship kid on that bench costs approx. 50 K per year.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 1, 2015 20:18:10 GMT -5
With the proliferation of online degree programs it is almost shameful that Siena does not have more.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 1, 2015 21:16:24 GMT -5
Dave- my point is if we want to recruit good kids as transfers, we need GRADUATE programs. It is beyond me why we don't have an MBA, for example. I would bet every other school in the conference has at least 20 Masters Programs. I believe that we could get high character transfers or 5th years that would impact this team if we had those programs. I know most here think it doesn't matter, but the wave of the 'older' college hoop players started increasing exponentially over the last 10 years, there was plenty of time to at least double the number of grad programs offered. I know some here think I am crazy on this point. And as for 50K, you mean per year right? because base tuition is over 33K for a NARP who doesn't get special study halls and tutors. Every scholarship kid on that bench costs approx. 50 K per year. Green my apology I misunderstood. You are right on. Again IMO it's the nice guys, non business types that are leading the institution into ruin. The standing catholic institutions have quietly given the reins of running said schools to professionals while keeping up the front they are still controlled by the Franciscans or whoever. Change is inevitable, and if you do not change you are left behind. Siena has a good rep with graduating outstanding business leaders. It's ashamed they do not take advantage of that. Time for the old boy network to go.
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